Unholy Realms Public Release Thread (/idgames link posted)

Thanks, I figured that might be the case but better ask the experts. I'll just have to leave him be then.

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Joshy said:

That's an intentional shortcut, naturally.

he said it was mandatory, nonetheless :p

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Cyberdemon531 said:

he said it was mandatory, nonetheless :p

True that, except speedrunning shortcuts aren't mandatory in that sense. ;-)

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In map 28, if you save a radsuit in the RSK/BSK room for the end of the level, when the big teleport-in happens after grabbing the BSK, you can just grab a radsuit, run around to the start area, and sit there in almost total saftey, provoking infighting until the bridge back to the exit is clear.

Is this intentional?

(I'm bad enough that this may be about the only way for me to finish this one without abusing saves, heh).

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Originally, yes. It was pretty hardcore and I wonder why none of the playtesters (*cough*) didn't bring it up sooner. The latest beta eases up the shot significantly by lowering the pillar slowly once you land on it, then raising it again as you go for another shot.

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Ok, I give up on map 29. This is just stupid.

Arch Vile that you can't take cover from guarded by imps that you can't shoot because of the angle. Yeah, that's a good idea. Follow it up with another "hope the monsters flinch, because there's not enough room to dodge in this hallway" battle.

Next up, a fight that's reliant on infighting where, because of the way the Cyberdemons are initially placed, if the RNG doesn't favor the player, the infighting won't happen and the fight won't be winnable! Oh, and then there's crushers on the outside so that even once the Barons are killed, surviving the two remaining Cyberdemons is entirely a RNG-fest based on how they move! This seems like it's supposed to be a tribute to Nukefall, without realizing that Nukefall was playable only because the entire opening setup ended with two properly-placed BFG shots, thus making it take about 30 seconds from map start -> end of somewhat luck-driven encounter.

Then, two more Arch-Viles that, if they run out their little alcove before deciding to slow-fire you, you've got no cover from. Hooray for more RNG!

Then comes the PEs' acting as the traditional SOD-style "This will kill you the first time, and won't do anything once you've seen it once" trap.

Then you slog through a few entirely uneventful fights (including shooting through keybars that a pair of Mancubi can't shoot back through), grab the blue key, and it's time to fight two Cyberdemons on the worst bumpyfloor ever that makes it nearly impossible to actually dodge projectiles. Then you get another Cyb- this one can't actually hurt you because of the way his platform is shaped- and then a Mastermind, and that's as far as any of my runs have gone, and I have no idea what comes next because this level is stupid and I don't care anymore.

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jerrysheppy said:

I had a failed Cyberdemon teleport on map17 because of what I believe was this problem. The Cyber appears to be meant to teleport into an area that is full of monsters at the start of the fight, so it's quite possible for it to be blocked. In this case it breaks the map completely unless you use noclip.

I'm really enjoying the mapset so far.


i second this cyberdemon. cyberdemon was blocked and the map was unbeatable.

dew said:

Originally, yes. It was pretty hardcore and I wonder why none of the playtesters (*cough*) didn't bring it up sooner. The latest beta eases up the shot significantly by lowering the pillar slowly once you land on it, then raising it again as you go for another shot.


that sounds like a decent fix. i like how the icon is activated at the very beginning; this is a really high quality boss fight. the notion of having to beat an entire map while a spawner is activated adds a rush feel to it.

another thing about map30: the way to the teleport that leads to the blue and red doors is not clear at all (it's activated by hitting the same switch to the BFG and the ammo + megasphere).

map 29: tough map. two cyberdemons at beginning. i'd recommend one on HMP difficulty, 4-6 barons instead on easier.

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I'll probably do the easier-difficulty tweaks, but to anybody having a problem with the cyberdemon on Map17 not teleporting, I recommend you download the latest beta. It not only fixes this bug, but also makes so that the cyberdemon is no longer a mandatory kill.

Cyberdemon351: That linedef is to prevent people form merely SR40'ing into the exit area.

Cynical: Map28 is designed to give the player all kinds of options on how to approach certain battles. It's easy to avoid that final fight altogether, which I did in part for the people who are getting burned out at the point in the map/megawad. The strategy you mention is the 'safe' approach while just going gung-ho kamikaze style is quicker.

dew: Yes, the playtesters should have pointed this out to me far sooner. I blame all of the playtesters for everything. Everything.

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Cynical said:

Ok, I give up on map 29. This is just stupid.

Arch Vile that you can't take cover from guarded by imps that you can't shoot because of the angle. Yeah, that's a good idea. Follow it up with another "hope the monsters flinch, because there's not enough room to dodge in this hallway" battle.

Next up, a fight that's reliant on infighting where, because of the way the Cyberdemons are initially placed, if the RNG doesn't favor the player, the infighting won't happen and the fight won't be winnable! Oh, and then there's crushers on the outside so that even once the Barons are killed, surviving the two remaining Cyberdemons is entirely a RNG-fest based on how they move! This seems like it's supposed to be a tribute to Nukefall, without realizing that Nukefall was playable only because the entire opening setup ended with two properly-placed BFG shots, thus making it take about 30 seconds from map start -> end of somewhat luck-driven encounter.

Then, two more Arch-Viles that, if they run out their little alcove before deciding to slow-fire you, you've got no cover from. Hooray for more RNG!

Then comes the PEs' acting as the traditional SOD-style "This will kill you the first time, and won't do anything once you've seen it once" trap.

Then you slog through a few entirely uneventful fights (including shooting through keybars that a pair of Mancubi can't shoot back through), grab the blue key, and it's time to fight two Cyberdemons on the worst bumpyfloor ever that makes it nearly impossible to actually dodge projectiles. Then you get another Cyb- this one can't actually hurt you because of the way his platform is shaped- and then a Mastermind, and that's as far as any of my runs have gone, and I have no idea what comes next because this level is stupid and I don't care anymore.

Aw, chill dude! This was not meant to be an easy map at all. In fact, from what I know, there was a playtester or two who completed this in one go with their FDAs albeit not their very first attempt (for some bloody reason I cannot remember, it must've been dew, and this was with the initial design which was somewhat more unfair actually). I was a tad worried whether the traps were too dickish but the responses were generally good so I stuck with it. The map is fairly short so replaying after stupid deaths is less frustrating than it would be if it was a longer map; I kept this in mind too. You better buckle up anyway because Resurgence Map26-30 isn't going to get any easier! :-P

As for Map30... I'm too traumatised to even remember my playthrough! *shivers*

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I am very glad that this saw a release.

I will try to make time to play through this.

Even if I don't find the time, congrats, Snakes!

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Joshy said:

Aw, chill dude! This was not meant to be an easy map at all. In fact, from what I know, there was a playtester or two who completed this in one go with their FDAs albeit not their very first attempt (for some bloody reason I cannot remember, it must've been dew, and this was with the initial design which was somewhat more unfair actually). I was a tad worried whether the traps were too dickish but the responses were generally good so I stuck with it. The map is fairly short so replaying after stupid deaths is less frustrating than it would be if it was a longer map; I kept this in mind too. You better buckle up anyway because Resurgence Map26-30 isn't going to get any easier! :-P

As for Map30... I'm too traumatised to even remember my playthrough! *shivers*

Raw difficulty isn't the problem here; I spent a lot longer working on a clear of Resurgence map 20 than I did on Treachery before giving up, and there are even other maps in UR that took more time to beat than I was willing to give to Treachery. The problem is the number of fights where all I can do is hope. Hope the Vile flinches. Hope the Revenants flinch. Hope the Cyberdemons decide to fire before the wall of Barons converges on me. Hope their splash hits the barons so that I don't have half of them still angrier at me than the Cybies. Hope that they stay relatively close to each other after killing the Barons, instead of splitting with one in the middle of the room and one hugging the bloodfall wall. Hope those next two Viles attack rather than move. Etc, etc. That's the problem. Well, that and the bumpy floor here, which is a terrible spot to not be able to move correctly.

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Your points are reasonable, I was concerned about what people might think of it. It would be interesting to see what the Megawad club think of it. If the response is mostly negative then I'm happy for Snakes to tinker the difficulty around a bit.

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Snakes said:

Cyberdemon351: That linedef is to prevent people form merely SR40'ing into the exit area.

But.... :(

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@ Cynical: heh, I think your Golachab thingie is meaner.
Besides, you don't necessarily have to fight cybs on the floor from screenshot, you still have an option of backtracking to the starting area and picking big asses from there. Not much of a problem. Also that fleshy area is perfectly traversable with a usual sr40, so big mess with AVs, SM, revs and other crawling crap shouldn't be much of a problem either - jump across that little pit and you're safe behind the walls.

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Demonologist said:

@ Cynical: heh, I think your Golachab thingie is meaner.

This is quite surprising to me. I can beat Golachab.

Besides, you don't necessarily have to fight cybs on the floor from screenshot, you still have an option of backtracking to the starting area and picking big asses from there. Not much of a problem. Also that fleshy area is perfectly traversable with a usual sr40, so big mess with AVs, SM, revs and other crawling crap shouldn't be much of a problem either - jump across that little pit and you're safe behind the walls.

The part of the level after doing the blue key probably wouldn't be as much of a problem if I got to see it much (although bumpy-floor still sucks, even if there's a route that will get around it), but everything that happens in the curved-hall room and the crusher room is so ridiculous that any run that gets that far is going to be rare.

I just ran it on HMP (where I was able to beat it without any problems, although the Cyber/Vile thing at the end is a kinda dumb "hope the Cybies move right so you can get good BFG shots on the Viles" bit of roulette), and I'd really advise making that curved hallway/crusher area on UV somewhat closer to what it is on HMP, and possibly compensate by removing the Soulsphere at the "Cyber/Baron" reveal.

(Unrelated: Add the second Mancubus in the Plasma/Rocket/Chaingun room back in on HMP difficulty. He actually makes that room easier, not harder, since with two Mancs, you can count on them killing the Chaingunners near the switch for you if you give them half a chance.)

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MAP03: I haven't checked to see if this was mentioned here but I have found a minor issue with this map.

- Linedefs 629 and 652 seem to be missing some front textures. This is only noticeable if the player is standing on sector 139 while sector 138 is moving back up.

http://i.imgur.com/C326wnR.jpg




MAP 10: Just a couple things here.

- Not sure if this was intentional but I saw this. http://i.imgur.com/NADcR6o.jpg

- The archvile in sector 696 doesn't seem to be waking up to anything. At least not in the three runs I had of this map. Not sure why this is happening.




I'll continue to edit this post if I find anymore.

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I wasn't really hanging around on Doomworld when you announced this, but I wanna give you a hi-five for finally hammering it out. Looking forward to release!

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kmxexii said:

I wasn't really hanging around on Doomworld when you announced this, but I wanna give you a hi-five for finally hammering it out. Looking forward to release!

I was wondering where you were :) Thank you for the high-five. I've got a few final adjustments to make over the next couple of weeks.

Darkreaver: I'll try and keep these coming :)

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I'm not sure if it has been mentioned but some dummy teleporters take a little too long teleporting out their content, especially those with numerous monsters in it. Make sure you have some teleporting linedefs facing monsters and others facing the opposite side, it speeds up the teleporting process quite notably.

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Okay, everyone: the final version of Unholy Realms is complete and redy for uploading. Thank you all for your help on bugtesting and your repeated interest throughout the nigh-forever-long production time on this project. Link to the final version below:

Downlode!

You're all awesome, thank you.

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I am currently doing a full playthrough and found these glitches in Map17 ("Missing Gamma Sector"):

1) Automap name has a typo ("Mising [...]") --> Already reported by Magnusblitz (and not fixable), as I can see.

2) Rendering glitch with a wall --> Kinda reported by Cynical already, too.
Ingame view
Map view

3) Rendering glitch with water below bridge
Ingame view
Map view

Used port: GZDoom G1.9pre-337-g4122e40

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As someone who is incredibly fond of Simplicity, I find this comparison quite flattering. Thank you :)

Re: the Map17 bugs. It's incredibly bizarre that I don't get the bridge rendering error when I run the map and GOOD GOD what did I do to Map17?

I'll have to revise it for the /idgames upload. I'd recommend UV-Maxers to avoid this map in the meantime as I may have to toy with the sectors a bit.

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