Going Down: [bug fix update: 22/08/15]

plums said:

Sorry, I should really know better than to type things like that when I'm in a rush. Because it's such an easy fix, and more importantly to prove I'm not a bumbling idiot, here's what I did to make Map02 of your wad co-op friendly:

-The inside linedefs of the elevator door (linedefs 2686 & 2693) were flipped, changed to type 114 [SR Door Open Wait Close (fast)], and given sector tag 9. Now players can leave after they respawn.

-On your voodoo conveyor used for exiting the level: linedef 2729, the one that closes the elevator door, was changed to type 16208 [Generalized Door (W1, Close-Wait-Open action, Fast, 30 sec wait, no monsters)]. This has the effect of making the door inoperable by any means until the 30 second wait is over, and the voodoo doll will cross the exit linedef long before that. (Any door closing type should do, as long as it's a close-wait-open action and not just close and stay closed.)

That let me test it out with -solo-net, intentionally dying often to see what breaks. The one problem after that was the yellow key room. If one player goes in there, and dies before hitting the switch, the players are locked out of that room. Easily fixed by making the door openable from the other side.

If that is still unclear then it's a sign I need to get more sleep, but I can also upload my fixed version of Map02. (I don't like posting modifications of people's stuff without explicitly knowing they're OK with it.)

Then you should maybe read http://www.doomworld.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=1103401#post1103401 and realize just what a hassle proper multiplayer support is with voodoo conveyors :( . Perhaps it's not worth it, and you should just stick a big "use at your own risk" warning in the text file. I don't want to be responsible for this mapset being unfinished by bogging you down with multiplayer problems! :P


Ahhhh, now I get it, I think that is a better solution too. Excellent cheers that saves me a lot of hassle. I read that thread earlier while searching for info on co-op and it looks like a real minefield. Should be possible to fix most of it though, what I will do is concentrate on getting the rest of the maps done and then figure out multiplayer stuff later.

Cheers for your help.

Katamori said:

After a quick look, it's strongly promising! There'd be even possible that I'm gonna LP it asap.


nice one, would be interested to see that.

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Only thing to mention, it wouldn't do bad to offset the LITE3's on the TLITE_1/2 sides, at least every second side (by 9 units, respectively), because it looks ugly as naturally 0-offset cutoff on EACH RIGHT edge.

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Cell said:

Only thing to mention, it wouldn't do bad to offset the LITE3's on the TLITE_1/2 sides, at least every second side (by 9 units, respectively), because it looks ugly as naturally 0-offset cutoff on EACH RIGHT edge.


I have an even better idea

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mouldy said:

what I will do is concentrate on getting the rest of the maps done and then figure out multiplayer stuff later.


Good plan.

Something that you might not know, that might help for when that time comes, is that any walkover linedef that can be triggered "by monsters" can actually be triggered by any moving thing. So you can sometimes replace your voodoo dolls on a conveyor with a decoration. MOST linedef actions can be made to be used by monsters using generalized linedefs, sadly not all.
example: http://www.mediafire.com/?7b707picurtdcdt

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I played through the whole episode. Awesome stuff! The concept is actually attractive, and well performed. I like the general inseriousness, illustrated also by the music. I kept smiling while playing, the only other 'games' that make me do so are Duke3D and Pirate Doom mod - thank you! :)

All maps are pretty good. My favourite level is MAP05, because of the idea, other outstanding ones are MAP06 and MAP08, and I certainly appraise MAP01 too. My least favourite is MAP09, as there IS possible to get into almost-hopeless situation, where you have to retry too many times - I'm just not into such maps.

I found MAP06 bugged in Zandronum, the soulsphere staircase reveals HOM on its sides when the bars raise, also the switches in damaging water are rendering oddly.

I am really looking forward to the rest of the megawad! ;)

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plums said:

Something that you might not know, that might help for when that time comes, is that any walkover linedef that can be triggered "by monsters" can actually be triggered by any moving thing. So you can sometimes replace your voodoo dolls on a conveyor with a decoration. MOST linedef actions can be made to be used by monsters using generalized linedefs, sadly not all.
example: http://www.mediafire.com/?7b707picurtdcdt


Cool, didn't realise any decoration would do it. Although its a bummer that floor and ceiling actions don't seem to have a monsters option

scifista42 said:

I found MAP06 bugged in Zandronum, the soulsphere staircase reveals HOM on its sides when the bars raise, also the switches in damaging water are rendering oddly.

I am really looking forward to the rest of the megawad! ;)


That is an utterly bizarre bug, for some reason zandronum makes 166 action (s1 ceiling to highest ceiling) move the ceiling up and the floor down at the same time. I fixed it by changing to a generalised action, no idea why that is happening though.

glad you are enjoying the maps! Map 9 can be a complete bastard though, especially if you unwittingly unleash everything at once.

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Quite unique mapset, to say the least. With quite funky music. Say, where these are from? :P

I'll definitely wait for full megawad coming out from this. :)

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CorSair said:

Quite unique mapset, to say the least. With quite funky music. Say, where these are from? :P

I'll definitely wait for full megawad coming out from this. :)


Cheers! I made all the music myself.

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mouldy said:

Cheers! I made all the music myself.

Quite good a composer you are.

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Cell said:

Quite good a composer you are.


thanks, I'm glad people like the music because I will probably be re-using a lot of it, lazy bum that I am

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mouldy said:

thanks, I'm glad people like the music because I will probably be re-using a lot of it, lazy bum that I am

Me 2.

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Geez, this thing is brutal. Too brutal for Brutal Doom or any other mods I might be using that involve reloading weapons in the middle of loads of enemies bearing down on you. I'm sticking to classic vanilla, and it's been a lot more fun two maps in. Great concept, and a really good mapset so far.

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mouldy said:

for some reason zandronum makes 166 action (s1 ceiling to highest ceiling) move the ceiling up and the floor down at the same time.

The action of a type 40 line special - W1 raise ceiling to highest adjacent - was always meant to lower the floor to the lowest adjacent as well, but in vanilla this always failed because vanilla doesn't allow two actions on the same sector at the same time. (Fixing this breaks maps that aren't expecting a lower-floor-to-lowest on the same sector - MM2 map16 is one example I am aware of.)

Type 40's WR/S1/SR variants introduced in Boom (151, 166, 186) - well, some of them actually do lower the floor, but only if used in exactly the right way. There are some typos in the code - a demo_compatibility test with its sense inverted, a shortcutting logical-or operator that should be bitwise so both sides of it are evaluated - that prevent the floor lowering part from triggering except under specific circumstances.

Note also that Boom's documentation for mappers, boomref.txt, does not seem to mention the floor motion part of any of these four linedef specials (section 3.1, ceiling targets, highest neighbour ceiling). It's all rather broken and you are probably right to go off and use the generalised versions.

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Steve1664 said:

Geez, this thing is brutal. Too brutal for Brutal Doom or any other mods I might be using that involve reloading weapons in the middle of loads of enemies bearing down on you. I'm sticking to classic vanilla, and it's been a lot more fun two maps in. Great concept, and a really good mapset so far.


Oh man, yeah I wouldn't advise brutal dooming this one, although now you mentioned it I am tempted to have a go..

RjY said:

The action of a type 40 line special - W1 raise ceiling to highest adjacent - was always meant to lower the floor to the lowest adjacent as well, but in vanilla this always failed because vanilla doesn't allow two actions on the same sector at the same time. (Fixing this breaks maps that aren't expecting a lower-floor-to-lowest on the same sector - MM2 map16 is one example I am aware of.)

Type 40's WR/S1/SR variants introduced in Boom (151, 166, 186) - well, some of them actually do lower the floor, but only if used in exactly the right way. There are some typos in the code - a demo_compatibility test with its sense inverted, a shortcutting logical-or operator that should be bitwise so both sides of it are evaluated - that prevent the floor lowering part from triggering except under specific circumstances.

Note also that Boom's documentation for mappers, boomref.txt, does not seem to mention the floor motion part of any of these four linedef specials (section 3.1, ceiling targets, highest neighbour ceiling). It's all rather broken and you are probably right to go off and use the generalised versions.


Thanks for the explanation, funny I've never noticed this actually being put to use in a wad, might be quite cool to use if it worked properly.

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*Sudden Clarity Clarence*
Are you going to end up in Hell by going so much down???

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Cell said:

*Sudden Clarity Clarence*
Are you going to end up in Hell by going so much down???


Who knows what evil lurks in the bottomless depths...

but yes, hell will probably be on the menu at some point.

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mouldy said:

Who knows what evil lurks in the bottomless depths...

but yes, hell will probably be on the menu at some point.

Still, curious what kind of depth locations (9+ remaining) one would visit before actually entering Hell.

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I have just finished this, and as a fan of shorter, straight-forward maps, I need to give this project my blessing. The idea alone with the elevator and building levels as an "excuse" for the compact map design is as simple as it is convincing.

At first, I thought it might lack diversity/variation regarding visuals (not gameplay, as you seem to come up with new challenges regularly) since the first few levels look very similar. It wasn't before "Time Warp" that I believed the author is up to something here, and after reaching "Painframe", which was a visual revelation compared to what had been offered before, I knew I didn't make a mistake when refusing to stop playing.

Maybe the first few levels could need some additional touch, possibly with different texturing, to keep them apart a bit more. Difficulty is quite high btw, especially MAP07 wasn't exactly a walk in the park. "Hide and Seek" was also evil since I thought: "OK, so few monsters, how difficult can it be - unless it´s all Archviles..." - Oh, well. :P Other than that, I am very curious to see how it will continue!

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Cheers, glad you liked it. The difficulty is fairly high on UV, hopefully the lower settings will help less hardcore players (although its hard to test easy settings when you know the maps well). I'll be keeping the difficulty around that level for the rest of the maps, with maybe some ups and downs along the way for variety.

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You might have a bit of a wait for the next batch as life has been getting in the way (and a bit of laziness). I'll try and aim for an update at the end of this month.

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Ok, its been a while but I am still working on this. Currently done about 7 maps of episode 2. Here's a couple of pics..





Progress is slow, and I am toying with the idea of stopping at 20 maps just to give me less work to do, but I'll see how I feel after this next batch.

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Ahh, it lives, excellent. I'm disappointed you might not make the whole 32+, but of course all rationality says that it's ultimately for the best you come out with a set where each map is something you're proud of, rather than having a bunch of filler maps stuck in there just so you can say you filled every mapslot.

However long it ends up being, I eagerly await the next batch, not only because the previous batch was perhaps my favorite set of short levels from last year from a gameplay perspective, but also because I'm interested to see what kind of crazy crap (<-and I mean that in the most affectionate way) you're going to have to come up with to keep the ever-downwards-new-theme-each-map chain going.

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I too am excited for the rest of these. mouldy I think I saw your post in another thread saying how you usually feel burnt out on wads around Map 20 and I usually share that sentiment, but these maps are both short enough and so well made that I think I'd be more than happy to go through 32. That said, quality over quantity, and no sense in burning yourself out if you can't get a full megawad out of this concept. And if you did decide to add more later, you wouldn't be the first person to do things that way.

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Cheers guys. One of my goals with this was to make each map distinctively different, so its becoming a harder task as time goes on. I'll admit part of the "20 maps is enough" ethos is just my way of justifying doing less - in fact the whole idea behind this wad was born out of trying to beat that megawad fatigue by making the maps small and fast, so maybe I should stick it out...

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Glad to see you're still grinding away at this! I'm very curious where the theme will develop now that E2 is going underground.

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I'd understand your point at being burnt-out, but nevertheless I just hate the phenomenon of many and many planned "mega"WADs stopping around 20-25. If you feel the potential - at least little - don't be the next who's doing this nonsense.

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