Switcheroom 2 - Alpha 2

i having a bit of trouble with my map (map 32), as its most probably the simplest map to do. problem is that i have 2 designs atm, one is almost a strait texture swap (built from scratch) with a few tweeks. my other map is more of a whole new take on it, all new architecture (hint: its a hellish cave). should i try to keep it original or do the texture swap? or make them both and let you decide?

zinkai said:

i having a bit of trouble with my map (map 32), as its most probably the simplest map to do. problem is that i have 2 designs atm, one is almost a strait texture swap (built from scratch) with a few tweeks. my other map is more of a whole new take on it, all new architecture (hint: its a hellish cave). should i try to keep it original or do the texture swap? or make them both and let you decide?

I would stick to the "hellish cave" as long as it has similarity to the map32 layout. but thats just my opinion

Well it will have the same layout just a more natural feel to it, rocks etc

I just noticed the title edit. What does it mean "DEADLINE on March, 15th"? That the maps must be finished by that date?

I'm making some progress, I have around 20% of the layout done, but I haven't been able to work as fast as I'd like. Please note that this is not because of lack of inspiration, but more like lack of spare time! My job is driving me nuts.

Megalyth said:

Scifista and I may have had a communications mix-up there. A month is plenty of time to get a map to a "finished" state (re: architecturally complete, maxable, no horrendous errors), and then more time can be taken to focus on tweaking and testing. Basically, we're aiming to get the maps "done" by March 15th, and the details can be taken care of after that.

Megalyth is right. Rather than a communications mix-up, it was my own bad expression in this thread. The maps actually should be done by March 15th, but further polishing and mainly, bugfixing and public betatesting may happen afterwards. Polishing will be left on the authors themselves in this Switcheroom.

BlueFeena said:

Here's beta number one of MAP06->MAP21. The end fight is a bit brutal and I haven't completely balanced that fight yet, so if you get killed try not to worry about it. Contains all difficulties, though skill 3 still needs some balancing. IIRC, the map comes in about 4 kb short of the save game limit, (the map saves just fine initially, but don't put money on it if there's a huge amount of fire balls going around) so the item count might need some chopping down.

Tested in DOOM2.EXE 1.7, in-game music is Pyrarinth by James Paddock. Word of warning: if you like OPL2/adlib emulation like myself, the music will sound like utter crap in Chocolate Doom (use vanilla Doom2.) No idea why.

Lastly, any FDA's would really be appreciated, if you have the time.

Here is my FDA recorded in PrBoom-plus -complevel 2. I am a bad player, you have been warned. I gave up when I died for the third time, on my last attempt I got by the yellow door at least. Then I finished the map in Zandronum from the point where I had died and with IDFA cheating.

The map looks great. I also enjoyed the atmosphere, which is literally terror-bringing in a certain way. I think you got the difficulty very well, for this later slot. In fact, Megalyth hoped in an epic and awe-inspiring first hell map, which is why he declared his (previously made) map for a MAP22 slot. In my opinion, your map does just this job. Congratulations!

I like your touches and little changes on the layout and gameplay, they never got in the way of MAP06 recognizeability, yet improved the gameplay a lot. Oldschool-style piles of medikits were highly appreciated in the respective placed in your map. ;) I personally don't find it a problem what Magnusblitz said, as it makes for an increased challenge for the player and also the map's own charm.

Don't worry about savegame limit, this particular limit (as the only one) isn't required to be kept. I've never mentioned it before, right? Then sorry, I do now.

Mappers, your maps need to comply with vanilla static limits except for the savegame buffer limit, which you can ignore. Because this one in particular isn't a big deal, as it doesn't really ruin compatibility. You can just save on smaller maps and most people play in savegame-limit-removing ports anyway.


On the other hand, BlueFeena, I suspect your map could have problems with MAXVISSPRITES in the final area. This problem (while not that important too) would be at least minimized by removing all the medikits - even though I admit it'd be a shame, I like them. Or possibly do it another way.

Overally I like the map a lot, thank you for this submission!

I've set up an IRC channel to make project discussion easier. Anyone can join, naturally.

#switcheroom on irc.oftc.net

Megalyth said:

I've set up an IRC channel to make project discussion easier. Anyone can join, naturally.

#switcheroom on irc.oftc.net

I'm there too!

Sorry if I missed anybody. I stay logged in, but I'm not awake and at my computer 24/7. I'll be around as often as possible, and I'm hoping to get scifista in there at some point as well. If you have a more pressing question and don't feel like hanging out in IRC, using PMs is still okay.

Okay, I think mine's done enough to post: http://speedy.sh/RWcwU/map22-as-map04.wad






Not too attached to any one title, at this moment maybe something like "Low Power" or "Low Battery". Meh.

EDIT: Uploaded version with working exit

Magnusblitz said:

Okay, I think mine's done enough to post: http://speedy.sh/TKcjR/map22-as-map04.wad

It seems great to me, I like the current aesthetics, gameplay and resemblance to the original layout. A couple recommendations: (nothing fatal at all, and I'd respect if you didn't want to follow them)

• Cut down on ammo a little. I didn't have to use anything but the SSG, which I spammed to anything moving, and still exited the level with tons of bullets and shells (I found most secrets though).
  
• I think the one "non-MAP22" secret (side corridor textured with pipes and with a soulsphere at the end) could be completely flagged as hidden on the automap, as it really isn't a part of MAP22's layout. The player has pretty much the same chance to find it anyway, as it seems to me. Maybe also do the same with the secret with moving windows.

EDIT (below): Hehe, the exit switch indeed doesn't work and I didn't notice, I should better always make it to the end and actually press the switch. :)

Magnusblitz said:

Okay, I think mine's done enough to post: http://speedy.sh/TKcjR/map22-as-map04.wad

Great job. The exit switch doesn't work but that's all i've noticed so far.

YOU CAN NEVER LEAVE! MWHAHAHAHA

(Yeah I guess thats why I shouldn't upload maps so late at night, argh).

Here, have a free FDA on me. Recorded in DOOM2.EXE.

Really nice level, nice resemblance to the original layout. I thought that ammo placement was just fine really, no need squeezing the player on an early level. It was really fun and enjoyable; I think the only thing that needed some tidying up was the texturing, but that's probably personal preference really.

And yea, get that exit switch finished. :P

Also, thanks, both of you, for the play-throughs of my own level. Lot's of really good information from your runs; I'll look into the damaging floor thing and tidy up the difficulty a bit.

Map28 Spirit Traps is done. Multiplayer starts, co-op starts, difficulty levels, the works. I've tested it in chocolate doom and it seems to work fine. May need some polish but everything needed is ready for testing.

http://www.mediafire.com/download/z3cbudqrda847bx/SptTrap.wad

BlueFeena said:

Here, have a free FDA on me. Recorded in DOOM2.EXE.

I tried to run it, but it says you have version 1.7 :P

Could you point to which spots you thought needed texture work? I'm usually pretty anal about texture alignment (though I admit I rushed a bit at the end, just see the original problem with the exit switch) so I'm curious what you saw.

Inkie said:

Map28 Spirit Traps is done. Multiplayer starts, co-op starts, difficulty levels, the works. I've tested it in chocolate doom and it seems to work fine. May need some polish but everything needed is ready for testing.

http://www.mediafire.com/download/z3cbudqrda847bx/SptTrap.wad

One thing I noticed is:

ok then here is map 32 - mines of grosse (lame name i know), i think i have strayed to far from the concept, but ill leave that to you lot to decide. this is a beta would like feedback on the usual suspects, gameplay, item placement etc.

http://www.mediafire.com/download/rj3dxe5tkr75nr1/SRMAP32-26.wad

if this is not acceptable i have another version i am working on that stays a bit closer to the original.

note have only tested in gzdoom

Inkie said:

Map28 Spirit Traps is done. Multiplayer starts, co-op starts, difficulty levels, the works. I've tested it in chocolate doom and it seems to work fine. May need some polish but everything needed is ready for testing.

http://www.mediafire.com/download/z3cbudqrda847bx/SptTrap.wad

Overall this conversion is very well done.
For my taste the map is a bit too easy on UV especially with fully exploiting the Invulnerability Powerups.
Here you find my run of this map. Recorded with prboom complevel 2.

On my first run i got trapped in the southeastern room with the HK`s so i would recommend to set the the door switch repeatable.

@Inkie on MAP28: You've come with an interesting approach, which I think nobody before you used so much as you did. You managed to keep the gameplay pretty much the very same as in the original map. Even though you've really "switched" everything from aesthetics to monsters. Actually I find it a really good approach to the project instructions. Everybody seems to want to spice up the gameplay with something of his own, while you apparently gave up on that part, at least mostly. But it gives the map the expected and unspoiled classic charm. Good job.

I've found a bug: The right teleporter here leads somewhere where it shouldn't IMO.


@zinkai on MAP26: Well, MAP32 has a layout not easily applicable for a standard-playable map. In your take on it, it shows. The player can way too easily just run past everything to the exit, no motivation to bother with killing anything, at all. Purely gameplay problem, you know, kind of expectable.

Unfortunately, your map also isn't vanilla compatible. I just look at the automap and see that there will be DRAWSEGS overflows (even without testing in vanilla). Vanilla has its limits, most notably 128 maximum planes visible on the screen (VISPLANES), and 256 maximum line segments on the screen (DRAWSEGS). You'd need to cut down on the linedef amount in your map, reducing your stairways and other linedef-heavy structures. Useful tools to help you with achieving vanilla compatibility are Chocorenderlimits (source port to test limits) and Visplane Explorer (Doom Builder 2 plugin to show VISPLANES and DRAWSEGS already in the editor).

So I'm sorry, your map cannot be accepted as it is now, please rework it to achieve actual vanilla compatibility.

Yeah thought as much, I have another map in the works.
I'll check out that addon for db2.

tourniquet said:

On my first run i got trapped in the southeastern room with the HK`s so i would recommend to set the the door switch repeatable.

I actually found it really difficult, starting from a pistol start. It's hard to get a weapon without going by monsters and the ammo is somewhat limited. Once the player finally gets a foothold, though, I agree the map is pretty easy. If anything, I think it's easier than the original in some respects - no Pain Elementals, for example.

I think Scifista hit the nail on the head when he said the gameplay seems to have been left exactly the same. I actually found that a bit disappointing (since I've always loved Tricks and Traps for its... well, for its surprising traps, and nothing here is new), but I can't blame you for sticking close to the original. Better too close than too different.

scifista42 said:

Unfortunately, your map also isn't vanilla compatible. I just look at the automap and see that there will be DRAWSEGS overflows (even without testing in vanilla).

Just to check for fun...



(Everything pink is a HOM because of overflow)

Magnusblitz said:

I tried to run it, but it says you have version 1.7 :P

Could you point to which spots you thought needed texture work? I'm usually pretty anal about texture alignment (though I admit I rushed a bit at the end, just see the original problem with the exit switch) so I'm curious what you saw.

Yeah, I generally use an older version of Doom 2. I'll have some screen shots up in a bit as I'm on a different computer than normal. Try running the demo in PrBoomPlus, as I know it can play demos from the 1.7 IWAD.

DERP: Just saw Magnus's screen shot. Yeah, that's gotta be fixed, sorry mate :P

BlueFeena said:

Yeah, I generally use an older version of Doom 2. I'll have some screen shots up in a bit as I'm on a different computer than normal. Try running the demo in PrBoomPlus, as I know it can play demos from the 1.7 IWAD.

Thanks, that did work. You seemed really disappointed that I removed the teleporter from the first secret :)

Inkie said:

Map28 Spirit Traps is done. Multiplayer starts, co-op starts, difficulty levels, the works. I've tested it in chocolate doom and it seems to work fine. May need some polish but everything needed is ready for testing.

http://www.mediafire.com/download/z3cbudqrda847bx/SptTrap.wad

Hmm, this isn't a bad map but I do feel that there needs to be a bit more flair and creativity in the gameplay department. The yellow key room just doesn't work for me at the moment, the room needs to be expanded to make the particular fight here work as spiders vs masterminds is a different dynamic to a cyber vs barons fights. I also think that the same rule could be applied to other areas too.
Visually it's fine.

Map26/32 by Zinkai
The main arena is over-detailed and the map is too easy to simply pacifist through.
The idea looks ok, but needs a lot of work to bring the visplane/drawsegs down and put pressure on the player in the gameplay department.

Low Power by Magnusblitz
A bit too homagy to the Focus for my liking in places, otherwise a nice map visually and gameplay wise.

So here is the updated version of map 27 now finally with items included ;)

- skill settings are implemented now

- DM and COOP support

- added some minor details

- added 2 more secrets (1 unofficial)

- due to 3 small spots where a visplane crash could occur i needded to reduce the field of view in the central court. Though i think i solved this problem in a quite aesthetic way..

- the forced linearity is removed (as far as it was possible)

- some of the mechanics for completing the map are now more obvious

- the double stairway is now a bit more extended, it's still a bit tricky to descent, but since it's fairly easy to get of the lava pit i wanna keep it the way it is now.

that's it so far....im still a bit unsure about the health and ammo ditribution especially on UV so tell me what you think....

Oh man, there's so much Doom that needs playing today! :3

scifista, where's the plugin for looking at visplanes/drawsegs in DB2? I can't seem to find it.

^It's the one on the very bottom of the linked page, click on its name for a download.

tourniquet said:

So here is the updated version of map 27 now finally with items included ;)

First, as I've already told you, visually the map is just great! I just feel a need to really emphasize it, because I really like how artfully crafted the map is. Scaling everything up helped a lot in this case.

To the new gameplay, I'd say that already the red key trap at the beginning is quite difficult from a pistol start (due to revenants), but it is definitely managable. I'd say the balance of ammo is done very well and health should be sufficient too if one doesn't make bad mistakes.

The areas with questionable intuitiveness have been improved, although the mechanism in the western branch to open the mandatory wall still seems a little unobvious to me. Specially when it doesn't have anything to do with MAP17. I know, I know, now I'm criticizing the exact opposite thing than before, this is a problematique place in the map indeed. As you've made it now it's OK.

I noticed that you make really hard to find secrets - not only most of them are flagged as unrecognizable on automap, but some don't even open when the respective wall is easily pressed. No problem with me, I like to be challenged to exploration (and I failed at your secrets pretty much :)). But more hints would be appreciated anyways, not only by me I think.

I like the Cyber fight going on in the middle of the map, it makes sense there. The only complaint about enemy placement would be the already mentioned revenants in the red key area, and also the archvile right in the half-secret passageway before the exit area. He's a bit unfair there, but mostly you'll pain-lock him with the SSG anyway.

That's it, again, you did a great job!