Final Doom The Way id Did

I gave up on a map

I had a lot more planned in terms of teleports and how the player would navigate the map, but I found myself getting away from "Miloism" in too many ways. Regardless, feel free to check out the map as a study on what to do and not do. (Also as I navigated this map I just disliked profoundly how it felt as a three dimensional space).

To share some of my design goals, things which I think are core to Milo's plutonia maps:

*90% of map is constructed out of curves/inverted curves
*symmetry almost everywhere
*heavy use of wood8/9 to transition from one texture theme to the next
*brown walls with blue/gray floors, and vice versa blue/gray walls with brown floors, seems to be Milo's color theme
*heavy use of windows (especially the idea of the gazebo structure as per Tarnsman's observation)
*understood use of shadows, as a rare decoration element
*however usually maps almost exclusively one light level
*steps almost always wood/steplad
*almost no wall detail aside from occasional demonface or panblack banner
*good deal of teleporting, jumping, retracing
*few doors, those that exist usually fast

You'll notice tons of violations of these observations in this example map, especially in regards to curves and symmetry. It was something I was going to retroactively address, but I just dont like the map so not going to bother.

My texturing is a mess of me testing out themes. The goal was to settle on 2 to 3 wall/flat themes (emphasis on brown and blue/gray) and just paint the map in them (as opposed to picking literally the exact texture/flat combinations that Milo did in plutonia).

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A.Gamma said:

Ok, here is a map for Plutonia, Milo Style. It's on Map 01 but it is intended to take a late E1 slot.

The Boiler! :D

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Alfonzo said:

The Boiler! :D


Nope, it's Anaconda, any similarities to D2TWID are just homages :D

On a related note I updated the map, same link as before.

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Okay,So I wanna ask people,what are the most favorite maps in D2TWID so I can rip it off to the Plutonia maps?

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Honestly, any map is a candidate for Plutonifying(Plutonizing? Plutoniation?) except for the secret maps as far as I know.

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Here is another Plutonia map, again Milo style.

http://waa.ai/rqD

It takes slot 13 and it's called Damnation.

Any feedback provided will be greatly appreciated.

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I took a quick look at it in the editor, and like your previous map the Milo-esque shapes are pretty spot on, but the map is fairly big. I'll replay them both and provide a more thorough review soonish.

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So... apparently I can't stop spamming the thread.

http://waa.ai/rKR

Graveyard of the Gods, Milo Style, slot 21.

EDIT: Minor bug fixing, same link.

EDIT2: More bugs! same link.

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You're latest map is the closest to the mark yet and really good. One thing to note, your maps are um... REALLY BIG. I'm not just talking total rooms or anything but total area. Lots of shit that can be solved by taking the map and just crunching it, don't remove any content just make it smaller. 192 wide hallway? make it 128! that kind of scrunching. Do this, open up your map, select every linedef, hit copy, open plutonia and start pasting it over other plutonia maps and noticing how much more space exists in your maps vs those. For example: your latest map which is clearly a "small map" is bigger than Map 27 and roughly 45% the size of Map 29. Other than that, this one is definitely close to where it needs to be.

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Hmmmm, I thought that having few playable sectors would do the trick, but after copy-pasting my maps in Plutonia I can see your point.

I think it might be easier to create a new map with your suggestions in mind rather than shrinking down the previous attempts since I suspect doing so in a couple of them might be tricky.

Thanks a lot for your feedback Tarnsman!

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@Gamma: I went ahead and made a recording that critiqued your last 4 Plutonia maps in detail, but for whatever reason Twitch decided it didn't want to preserve it. After I get over this tragic loss of footage I'll make sure I give you a proper write-up to compensate.

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an_mutt said:

It's me, to the rescue!

Ah, you're a champion! Thanks a lot. Last time I checked it had only caught hold of the first 30 minutes, and what with most of the worthwhile commentary going into the backmost maps I thought I'd be better hitting the keyboard and stringing together a major essay.

I've highlighted it now for future reference. Check it out even if your name isn't A.Gamma. There's a great deal of talk on Milo's mapping traits and especially on how best (to my understanding) one should go about transplanting ideas and areas from DTWiD and D2TWiD into your Plutonia creation.

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an_mutt said:

It's me, to the rescue!


Amazing, I really like watching people play my maps as I can learn a lot.

Now on to some of the issues mentioned, listing the maps in the same order Alfonzo played them:

Anaconda (First map made): I totally agree with the things you said here, this map could be considered an experiment of sorts, a way to familiarize myself with things that Milo did and did not.
Trivia: The area with the blue and red key was taken from Alfonzo's Map 4 in D2TWID

The Painkiller (Third map made): This was a lot less experimental, I had a better understanding (I think) of Milo's style. As for the straight E2M6 rip-off, I seem to recall that Milo directly ripped-off rooms, but upon closer inspection I now notice that he reshaped them, even if just slightly, so I will do that with this map alongside size reduction.
Trivia: The concept of the locked door near the beginning and the players starting in opposite directions of each other(in coop) was also taken from E2M6.

Damnation (Second map made): Again I agree with your commentaries, monster placement was less random than the previous map and it showed in your play. I kind of like how this map came out so I might remake it, probably Dario style.
Trivia: This map takes more from Reservoirs than just the areas you pointed out, the two circular rooms with blood (the one with the plasma rifle and the one with the Cyberdemon) are taken from two similar areas in Reservoirs, also the room with the floor that goes up and down was taken from Reservoirs.

Graveyard of the Gods (Fourth map made) : I don't really have much to say about this one as you said most of it in your play, the whole Humanoid monsters only was taken from The Crucible alongside the over-abundance of hitscanners, I will definitely reduce the size of this map so that it fits the Plutonia criteria.

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So, it's back to thread spamming for me!

Taking into account the feedback provided by Alfonzo and Tarnsman I made a new map!

http://waa.ai/r7s

Hell Machine, Milo Casali style(big shock!), slot 21.

Now, I'll fix my previous maps.

EDIT: Them bugs!

EDIT2: After thinking it through I decided that a Plutonia map with 4 Cyberdemons is not really a Plutonia map so here is a version with just 1 (2 on coop).

http://waa.ai/rY8

Note: I decided to keep the old map just for the sake of it.

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A.Gamma said:

EDIT2: After thinking it through I decided that a Plutonia map with 4 Cyberdemons is not really a Plutonia map so here is a version with just 1 (2 on coop).

In Cyberden (Map 31) of the original Plutonia, there were 4 Cyberdemons, plus an additional 2 which were tagged for coop (making it 6 in total), so either way, it would still qualify as a Plutonia map. Remember that one of the gameplay aspects is extensive usage of heavyweight enemies like barons, revenants, archviles, and cyberdemons, though not in ludicrous numbers as many thought of when it comes to Plutonia/HR/AV, etc. You could easily put 1 Cyberdemon for ITYTD/HNTR, 2 for HMP, and 4 on UV/NM.

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More importantly, it was the *intelligent* use of such enemies to put pressure on the player(for the most part, as map31's cyberdemons aren't much of a threat to a modern player).

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T-Rex said:

In Cyberden (Map 31) of the original Plutonia, there were 4 Cyberdemons, plus an additional 2 which were tagged for coop (making it 6 in total), so either way, it would still qualify as a Plutonia map. Remember that one of the gameplay aspects is extensive usage of heavyweight enemies like barons, revenants, archviles, and cyberdemons, though not in ludicrous numbers as many thought of when it comes to Plutonia/HR/AV, etc. You could easily put 1 Cyberdemon for ITYTD/HNTR, 2 for HMP, and 4 on UV/NM.


Yeah, but still non-secret Plutonia maps rarely use more than one Cyberdemon so having 4 of them on a normal map is not good.
Anyway both versions are still up, so if anyone wants to kill 4 Cybers in a small map you know where to look.

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Plutonia flat-out does not use cyberdemons in multiples outside of the secret maps (or maybe co-op, I've not done co-op Plutonia), and the only cyber that can even walk around is the one in Baron's Den (and that one is still pretty limited).

All the rest are single sniper cyberdemons.

Associating cyberdemons with Plutonia is evidence that you're actually thinking of Go 2 It and not Plutonia. Go 2 It is very different from the rest of the mapset.

The few spider masterminds in Plutonia are used in similar ways to the cyberdemons, so this is really a boss monster thing in general.

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Come to think of it, I found the story misleading on how the hellish army that made the invasion for Plutonia is too numerous. Stronger, I agree, since there's more of the tougher enemies to contend with like revenants and archviles. Numerous, hardly, because given by how many monsters are there in the entire mapset, they're probably around, or even less, than the complete monster count in the original Doom 2. If anything, the story in the Final Doom instruction manual make it seem as if Plutonia is going to be a slaughterish mapset, even though it isn't most of the time, save for the super-secret level Go 2 It. Just that the fights are much trickier, if not sadistic, than in Doom, Doom 2, and TNT combined due to the monster usage.

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RottKing said:

Finally finished my Drake 'O Brien map for TNT

Hot damn son of a bitch, this right here's a sealer! It's got character, questionable progression choices, schizophrenic texture selection that's subdivided into different areas (almost all of them brown), featureless corridors, and enough space to swing all the different strains of cat strung together. TNT: Evilution has finally arrived.

I love the unapologetically fat sectors and the way they're cut into bland, dimly lit corridors. The map is reminiscent of Mt. Pain in this respect and in its stalwart dedication to brown, although it has a layout and progression that's more like Central Processing what with its distinct "what in the hell is this guy trying to depict?" vibe when coupled with the texture use. The great reveal of the massive stair/trench area was something I had anticipated for some time and it didn't fail to impress me in its Drakitude. I died in that trench 10 times over - and almost everywhere else in the map with a startling degree of reliability - to a relentless hail of hitscanners, each of which felt no less unjust than those in his Evilution maps. Menial provisions and frequent lack of proper cover are an O'Brien speciality, Metal notwithstanding.

Looking forward to playing it again and dying a thousand times over once more. Hopefully this time I'll offer some more constructive feedback, though!

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Since in Evilution there are maps that were made by two Authors,why not having two mappers create a map or one mapper creates a map and the other does his touch on it?

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