TNT: Revilution . 2 small to medium maps wanted

D_GARG said:

rah-hurrr I have not recieved any responce of my contribution


Yeah my bad. Both Megamur and Ragnor have submitted their thoughts on the map to me. I think the three of us all really like the map, (Ragnor especially loves this map,) it is a great map in concept. But there are issues.

-It massively breaks vanilla compatibility. (In places, I have got over 140 visiplanes, fairly easily, and in other places more than 100 segs over the SEG limit too. So the reason for my slowness in getting back to you is I have been making vanilla compatible version of the map.
-The other main issue is that is is simply too hard for such a relatively early map. Having a chaingun and a single barel shotty, and a handful of rockets is no arsenal to deal with archs, arachs and mancs.
-Megamur poins out that it is a bit of a switch hunt also, running around trying to find out what switch does what.

But the idea and layout are really really good.

I will send you all the feedback soon, and sorry for the delay. :)

mrthejoshmon said:

Right, a "Playable" version of my shit contribution is going to be ready soon, who should I send it to?


Just pass it on to me, I will send it to Megamur and Ragnor. :)

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hawkwind said:

I haven't seen these maps yet ...


Hawkwind, I am so sorry, haha, forgot about you when I wrote this post. Would have remembered when it came time to send them out tho. :(

Thank you for the reminder though.

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KiiiYiiiKiiiA said:

-The other main issue is that is is simply too hard for such a relatively early map. Having a chaingun and a single barel shotty, and a handful of rockets is no arsenal to deal with archs, arachs and mancs.


Ironically, this is what I like. You need to plan your attack and the right way to break out into the outer zones. This coming from someone who struggled with Devilution's Map 6, and this set's map 6, 17 and 19 more so than any others

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Any takers on these FIREBLU based textures?

I haven't put them in because I wasn't totally sold on them, but if they get lots of love, I will put them in.


Ragnor said:

Ironically, this is what I like. You need to plan your attack and the right way to break out into the outer zones. This coming from someone who struggled with Devilution's Map 6, and this set's map 6, 17 and 19 more so than any others


I agree, I really like that style, but not to the extent of: "Oh look. I have 6% health and 30 bullets and here are two revenants and a hell knight and some chaingunners sniping off in the distance. Hooray!"

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KiiiYiiiKiiiA said:

Any takers on these FIREBLU based textures?

I haven't put them in because I wasn't totally sold on them, but if they get lots of love, I will put them in.

I'm not sold on them either--not as is. Their color schemes are a bit too "binary" for my tastes. If the gray ones had, say, maybe some hints of green or white mixed in, they could make for decent marble textures. The brown one could even have kind of a rusty look with some orange or red added. But in their current state, I'm not especially impressed.

And my biggest issues with D_GARG's map, difficulty-wise, mostly stemmed from having to deal with dangerous enemies in large areas with limited cover. Avoiding revenant rockets or arachnotron plasma in a huge field with nothing to hide behind is very nasty, and if an arch-vile catches sight of you, you're completely screwed.

It's certainly a very attractive map, however (I love the forklift), and I enjoy how the overall design echoes Evilution's Map21. But it sure does kick your teeth in!

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KiiiYiiiKiiiA said:

Any takers on these FIREBLU based textures?

The gray ones could pass as rock texture flats (Something Doom really lacks is freaking rock flats), I can imagine how I would use them as well (Also, the brownish one could make a great TANROCK flat)

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I agree: They'd likely look better as flats. But I'm not sure how they'd look shrunk down to 64x64.

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Our MIDI composers--if they know how to create music WADs--may want to consider loading up a source port with Timidity/EAWPats to test their music. Here's a thread that says how to do it:

http://www.doomworld.com/vb/thread/50375/

As people, like myself, are forced to upgrade to newer versions of Windows (and get saddled with crappier MIDI support), more people will likely have to hear Doom's music this way. It's certainly not required that you optimize your music for Timidity/EAWPats, but you may want to give your songs a test run to make sure they don't sound completely awful with those instrument samples.

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Well don't I just love the change in behaviour of the metal pad and the glitchy square lead on the story music...

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Eris Falling said:

Well don't I just love the change in behaviour of the metal pad and the glitchy square lead on the story music...

Sorry, Eris. I'd really rather you didn't have to touch anything. It's really not a requirement, just a suggestion, if composers are especially concerned about compatibility.

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Huh? I imagine 90% of us are hearing MIDI in Microsoft SW Synth. I'm using Win8.1 and it sounds the same as it did since Win2000.

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Then it might be a Vista/Win 7 issue. Perhaps it's not as widespread as I'd feared.

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Bucket said:

Huh? I imagine 90% of us are hearing MIDI in Microsoft SW Synth. I'm using Win8.1 and it sounds the same as it did since Win2000.


Pretty much this.
I'd say Microsoft Synth is pretty much vanilla MIDI, so unless you're not planning on making a MIDI for use as a MIDI format (i.e. converting it to MP3), it should always be balanced for the Microsoft synth.

I don't know what's causing the square lead bug on eawpats, and the only alternative instruments to my metal pads are the bowed pads. Which also had their behaviour changed in the same way. Goblins are altered to, which irks me, but it's less of an issue. Basically I can't do anything.

EAWPats just seems to be a soundfont in my eyes. A bad one.

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I'm not particularly fond of EAWPats' sound, either.

Never mind about it, then. Maybe if I'm lucky, Chocolate Doom will get some sort of volume control fix in a future release.

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Doomhuntress said:

i made another version of Crazy Castle Killer; beware, the size i think exceeds what is able to fit inside, and it doesn't loop properly, but i just want to know if people care enough to get it into the project:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/gwtfb83fl15g1ac/Crazy%20Castle%20Killer%20Vers%202.mid


Sounds good to me. Eris' Map 32 track is longer btw :p

Fellowzdoomer said:

Is there a track that sounds like E3M3?

Request it from Bucket, Doomhuntress or UltimateDoomer666 and see what happens. I would also say Eris, but I think I swamped him enough recently, anymore he might never see the sun again >_>

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Ragnor said:

Sounds good to me. Eris' Map 32 track is longer btw :p

you're referring to the cast roll, right? that appears on map31, though, doesn't it? :p

also, i'll probably cut out the organ intro to make the song flow better, i dunno. any opinions?

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He hasn't done the Map 31/cast call theme yet. You've got the full pack, both the originals and the music wad, so its one of the tracks marked EF. Don't post the track name here though, he wants it kept hidden till release, its spoilerific. Keep the organ intro imho, wouldn't be ideal to have nearly all your tracks start on the drums.

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Doomhuntress said:

i made another version of Crazy Castle Killer; beware, the size i think exceeds what is able to fit inside, and it doesn't loop properly

Song length isn't the issue so much as filesize, and you're pushing pretty close to vanilla's limit, if you're not there already. I've read that MIDI files around 96kb will probably cause problems, and this is fairly close to that.

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Sorry if my post earlier came off a bit aggressive, I was pushed for time.
I also didn't have time to mention that I'm a Win7 user, and the MIDI support is fine. So perhaps its just a Vista issue, which wouldn't surprise me.

And yeah, any MIDI over 96kb doesn't play in vanilla IIRC. Despite being over 7 minutes in length, MAP32's theme is rather average in size, about 33KB.
In fact I think my incomplete MAP30 and ef_midi_15 are about the same size as MAP32, despite being 3 minutes and 1 minute respectively at the moment.

EDIT: Also, Kyka, isn't the level end midi just the intermission? :P

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Heh, that bit is still there? I copied and pasted his template, removed that specific line, filled it out, and sent it back to him. It shouldn't still be there. Unless I cocked up and DIDNT actually delete the line.

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Megamur said:

It's certainly not required that you optimize your music for Timidity/EAWPats, but you may want to give your songs a test run to make sure they don't sound completely awful with those instrument samples.

Well...my MIDIs sound reasonably acceptable with EAWPats, some minor volume unbalances... But anyway, I think my MIDIs are fine as they currently are, since I already made sure they're balanced and sound "correct" for the Microsoft Roland GS synth (basically just a lower-quality version of the SC-55). Edit: Also, I used the Virtual Sound Canvas for testing. The VSC is an SC-55 emulator, and sounds similar to the MS Synth. However, unlike the MS Synth, the VSC has Reverb and Chorus effects, and some instruments are more accurate than the MS Synth.

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Megamur said:

Song length isn't the issue so much as filesize, and you're pushing pretty close to vanilla's limit, if you're not there already. I've read that MIDI files around 96kb will probably cause problems, and this is fairly close to that.

yeah, that's a really easy fix. i'm just wondering if the other musicians, or anyone else on the team, has something to say about the song. i've thought about cutting out the first minute of intro or so, maybe make it its own E2 track (E2 was supposed to have creepy, desolate atmosphere right?), and fix the outro, which should fix the song's size considerably. anyone disagree or agree with me?

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We still need one or two E2 midis to finish the set, so go ahead if you'd like. I'm thinking of putting Bucket's newest one in slot 20 btw.

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ef_midi_15 has stalled while I prioritise MAP30, and I don't think it's going to have anywhere to go in this project, so you don't have to worry about that anymore.

Talking of 30, I'm nearly done with it. The tie-in with ef_midi_6 (originally submitted for Devilution nearly a year ago) is fully complete, and I'm going to try and bring things to a very epic finalé.
Here's hoping 30 is a damn frantic map :P

For the MIDI list in OP:
I'm still planning on doing 24's track, and will probably be the next one I make.
MUS31 will be titled "Mysteries of the Duat."

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Eris Falling said:

EDIT: Also, Kyka, isn't the level end midi just the intermission? :P


No. Definitely not. Definitely different things. And we must never speak of this again.

Also, on a completely unrelated note, I am off to edit the first post.

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Sorry to sound like an impatient asshat but did you get that crappy little map I made? I want to know how bad it is so I have an excuse to do something somewhat useful.

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