Ready to start reviewing again. :-)

Nice. Thanks guys. Def. Makes it easier

For those who are interested, I finished my review of Golachab. What does that mean, anyway? ??? hmmmm?
Anyway - http://www.doomwadstation.net/2014/golachab/

If my maps are too hard feel free to play them on I'm Too Young To Die or Hey Not Too Rough, it softens them up very significantly and there's some neat things to find on MAP02 if you just want to poke around.

With that said I encourage you to at least try UV, and you might want to try using a mouse (with zdoom-like settings, move with the keyboard and aim with the mouse)

cq75 said:

If my maps are too hard feel free to play them on I'm Too Young To Die or Hey Not Too Rough, it softens them up very significantly and there's some neat things to find on MAP02 if you just want to poke around.

With that said I encourage you to at least try UV, and you might want to try using a mouse (with zdoom-like settings, move with the keyboard and aim with the mouse)

I'm familiar with how to use the mouse and keyboard. ;-)
What I REALLY want to see in a map is the end of it. I should be able to play on UV and reach the end. I just want to know if anyone still designs maps that are made not only to be played, but are made to push the limits of the engine with design elements.
For instance, I just finished a Doom 3 map the other day that was well designed (always a plus), difficult, but not impossible - which made it fun to play. I mean, isn't that WHY we play? To have fun?

Brad_tilf said:

I'm familiar with how to use the mouse and keyboard. ;-)
What I REALLY want to see in a map is the end of it. I should be able to play on UV and reach the end. I just want to know if anyone still designs maps that are made not only to be played, but are made to push the limits of the engine with design elements.
For instance, I just finished a Doom 3 map the other day that was well designed (always a plus), difficult, but not impossible - which made it fun to play. I mean, isn't that WHY we play? To have fun?

Makes sense, though I'm not sure why you insist on playing on UV as if it were a "normal" difficulty; if anything I think having a very hard UV adds more choices since it makes a middle ground between UV and nightmare (for me at least respawning monsters makes most maps impossible, and too random/unsatisfying to explore). for these two maps I sort of shifted back the difficulties by one, ITTYD/HNTR are pretty much as easy as Doom 2 on easy, HMP is UV, UV is between Doom 2 UV and nightmare, and nightmare is for people who like that sort of thing.

As for designed to be played, that's an absolute yes, every enemy placed was carefully and meticulously tested (at least in MAP01) to require well trained and careful movement; whether or not that's something that's fun for most people is sort of what I'm trying to figure out here. It certainly is for me but there's a lot of options I could pursue for single player and I don't mind trying something different if this doesn't work. I don't know if it's a good idea until I try it.

As for pushing the limits of the doom engine, I can respect people that do that but those sort of effects and tricks are sort of secondary to what I want to do right now, which is making the gameplay good.


Also I personally find Knee Deep in the Dead to be a great episode but far too easy (I almost never dip below 100% health the whole time and I have a full stock of inventory most of the time). It's fun for me but I never feel like I'm in any danger of death at all at any time, and I like the tension of difficult maps; different strokes I guess.

Thanks for the review!

Sorry that you didn't like it. For me, HMP difficulty on it is no problem at all to beat (I can get it without using saves only needing a couple of tries; I'll record a video when I get home), but it is certainly harder than a typical iD map (HMP is probably easier than some of E4 on UV, though).

Also, you were very close to the end; those Arch-Viles are the second to last fight in the map.

As for what "Golachab" means: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golachab

cq75 said:

Makes sense, though I'm not sure why you insist on playing on UV as if it were a "normal" difficulty; if anything I think having a very hard UV adds more choices since it makes a middle ground between UV and nightmare (for me at least respawning monsters makes most maps impossible, and too random/unsatisfying to explore). for these two maps I sort of shifted back the difficulties by one, ITTYD/HNTR are pretty much as easy as Doom 2 on easy, HMP is UV, UV is between Doom 2 UV and nightmare, and nightmare is for people who like that sort of thing.

As for designed to be played, that's an absolute yes, every enemy placed was carefully and meticulously tested (at least in MAP01) to require well trained and careful movement; whether or not that's something that's fun for most people is sort of what I'm trying to figure out here. It certainly is for me but there's a lot of options I could pursue for single player and I don't mind trying something different if this doesn't work. I don't know if it's a good idea until I try it.

As for pushing the limits of the doom engine, I can respect people that do that but those sort of effects and tricks are sort of secondary to what I want to do right now, which is making the gameplay good.


Also I personally find Knee Deep in the Dead to be a great episode but far too easy (I almost never dip below 100% health the whole time and I have a full stock of inventory most of the time). It's fun for me but I never feel like I'm in any danger of death at all at any time, and I like the tension of difficult maps; different strokes I guess.

I totally get that. UV in original Doom is unquestionably easyish and ya, your health rarely dips to the point where you get concerned but in Shores of hell, that changes considerably. I guess I'm looking for that middle ground (on UV between too hard and and not quite hard enough. But that's me - that's why I always try to preface my comments with where I am at as a doomer and what I am looking for because I realize other people like different things

Cynical said:

Thanks for the review!

Sorry that you didn't like it. For me, HMP difficulty on it is no problem at all to beat (I can get it without using saves only needing a couple of tries; I'll record a video when I get home), but it is certainly harder than a typical iD map (HMP is probably easier than some of E4 on UV, though).

Also, you were very close to the end; those Arch-Viles are the second to last fight in the map.

As for what "Golachab" means: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golachab

I figured, but I pretty much had had it at that point. Just beat the cyberdemon and then I see these turds coming at me....
blah. lol
I think on that difficulty 1, or even 2, would have been sufficient

I recorded the vid of me beating it on HMP, as promised earlier. Took me three tries in total. Should have been less, but I'm really sloppy right now (even on the successful run; grabbing Megaspheres at 170 health is how the cool kids play Doom!)

I'm publishing a FRAPS recording of the demo now, but in the meanwhile, you can download the demo here: http://www.mediafire.com/download/0o9390m1m6gavwt/golameplenty.lmp

Recorded in prboom-plus, -complevel 9, on HMP difficulty.

EDIT: Here's the vid. First couple seconds got lost because FRAPS sucks, but it's not hard to figure out what happened there. If you're really curious, well, there's the demo. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6R_yYa5Pdk

Cynical said:

I recorded the vid of me beating it on HMP, as promised earlier. Took me three tries in total. Should have been less, but I'm really sloppy right now (even on the successful run; grabbing Megaspheres at 170 health is how the cool kids play Doom!)

I'm publishing a FRAPS recording of the demo now, but in the meanwhile, you can download the demo here: http://www.mediafire.com/download/0o9390m1m6gavwt/golameplenty.lmp

Recorded in prboom-plus, -complevel 9, on HMP difficulty.

EDIT: Here's the vid. First couple seconds got lost because FRAPS sucks, but it's not hard to figure out what happened there. If you're really curious, well, there's the demo. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6R_yYa5Pdk

Let me know when the fraps video is done. I'll add it to the review. :-)
It'salways good to have video of someone beating a really difficult map like that.

I posted up a little php index page on the incoming folder so if anyone wants to see what is waiting to be reviewed, or in the process of being reviewed, just hit it up and download what you want. If you are putting up maps - try to add a text file so people can see what they're downloading. :-)

http://www.doomwadstation.net/incoming/

I've nibbled and uploaded my two Escalation entries for review - I look forwards to seeing what you think :)

Phobus said:

I've nibbled and uploaded my two Escalation entries for review - I look forwards to seeing what you think :)

Well, it could be me or one of a few other people. We'll see. :-)
As far as I know, everyone is working on a review right now - that is 3 in process and I have to do another one in the next couple of days.
:-)

BTW - if you wouldn't mind - could you upload a separate txt file with those? It's just to make it easier for other people. :-)

Thanks

Brad_tilf said:

BTW - if you wouldn't mind - could you upload a separate txt file with those? It's just to make it easier for other people. :-)

OK, I've uploaded the two text files from the individual .zips as loose files as well.

Dunno if you are interested in Doom 64 stuff, but if you are, here is The Mort. I'm seeking for more feedback so it'd be great if you review it. :)

Cynical said:

I recorded the vid of me beating it on HMP, as promised earlier. Took me three tries in total. Should have been less, but I'm really sloppy right now (even on the successful run; grabbing Megaspheres at 170 health is how the cool kids play Doom!)

Awesome demo! That was fun as hell to watch. I'll have to grab a bag of courage and at least give this puppy a go on HNTR. Nice to know the Cyb can be telefragged. ;)

If anyone plays this and wants revenge on Cynical, make a map with about 300 Chaingunners and ask him to playtest it for you. He loves hitscanners! :D

SteveD said:

If anyone plays this and wants revenge on Cynical, make a map with about 300 Chaingunners and ask him to playtest it for you. He loves hitscanners! :D

Not to mention, chain gunners in unlit places and pain elementals spawning in from a long distance :P

Joshy said:

Not to mention, chain gunners in unlit places and pain elementals spawning in from a long distance :P

To be fair, PEs spawning in at a long distance are only a problem if some one way platforming makes them impossible to chase down.

Chaingunners in the dark always suck, though. Go light those damn platforms!

(And, yeah, I was just about to respond with "Joshy beat you to the punch on that one by about a year").

EDIT:BTW SteveD, if you can beat E4M2 on UV, you can beat Golachab on HMP, unless you have a real Revenant allergy. No need to wimp out to HNTR, IMO.

Well, I played through "Temple". Loved it! If you haven't played it - check it out. http://www.doomwadstation.net/doom_reviews/2014/temple

Brad_tilf said:

Well, I played through "Temple". Loved it! If you haven't played it - check it out. http://www.doomwadstation.net/doom_reviews/2014/temple

I am glad you enjoyed playing it as much as I did making it :)

These are two levels I made that I am really interested in seeing you review:

http://www.mediafire.com/download/h4x4y41t1256p7g/ahem.zip
(hololib.wad)

http://www.mediafire.com/download/3tu99z63pdso8da/pluto.zip
(pluto.wad)

You will also need to load this DECORATE file in order to play them:
http://www.mediafire.com/download/q0rics4rv4m4bcq/m11.wad

obake said:

These are two levels I made that I am really interested in seeing you review:

http://www.mediafire.com/download/h4x4y41t1256p7g/ahem.zip
(hololib.wad)

http://www.mediafire.com/download/3tu99z63pdso8da/pluto.zip
(pluto.wad)

You will also need to load this DECORATE file in order to play them:
http://www.mediafire.com/download/q0rics4rv4m4bcq/m11.wad

So, I'll ask you to do the same thing as I asked everyone else. Please upload them to the ftp (zip up the decorate file - with a text file to explain it's use and how to use it). Please also include a text file separately for each zip file - or include the decorate file in the zip file with each of the maps (easier - since they will be reviewed individually). Either way. The ftp instructions can be found here (username, password, etc...) http://www.doomwadstation.net/incoming/

Blue Paladin reviewed a map called "It was a Dark and Stormy Night". Apparently he found something "funny" about it. lol

http://www.doomwadstation.net/doom_reviews/2014/itwas/

Brad_tilf said:

Blue Paladin reviewed a map called "It was a Dark and Stormy Night". Apparently he found something "funny" about it. lol

http://www.doomwadstation.net/doom_reviews/2014/itwas/

That's two reviews of two of my maps back to back! :D

Cynical said:

EDIT:BTW SteveD, if you can beat E4M2 on UV, you can beat Golachab on HMP, unless you have a real Revenant allergy. No need to wimp out to HNTR, IMO.

Heh, between this on HMP and Impure Offering on HNTR, you really want me to have a traumatic weekend, don't you? ;D Alright, I'll give it a go. All I can do is -- virtually -- die, die and die again.

And did you mean to say that Joshy made a map with 300 Chaingunners, plus distant spawning PEs? Now, if he did such a thing just to get revenge on you for Golachab, that would be beyond cool, and I'd definitely have to see that map. But I think I'd like to see it in any case. Waiting for the link.

In an attempt to stay a bit on topic, one thing I'd say to Brad is that I tend to support the idea that modern mapsets can be justified in what I'd call, "a re-definition of the difficulty settings," though I think mappers should alert players in the text file if difficulty is far beyond that of the IWAD maps. If you play something by Ribbiks such as Swim With The Whales, be advised that HNTR is way harder than IWAD UV, HMP is borderline insane, and UV is Extreme Nightmare Terror, suitable only for top-tier players. When I play a Ribbiks map, I always play on HNTR because I'm not skillful enough for the higher difficulties, even though on 'normal' maps, I always play on UV. But I wouldn't want to miss the experience of playing the extremely beautiful maps Ribbiks makes just because they are so damn difficult. In fact, I'd be interested in your thoughts on Swim With The Whales if you or someone on your team chose to review it; http://www.doomworld.com/idgames/index.php?file=levels/doom2/Ports/s-u/swtw.zip

I figure that if the mapper is specific enough about what they're doing difficulty-wise, at that point it's the responsibility of the player to choose the most suitable difficulty and play that. If they find they can handle it well enough, then they can try to go higher if they feel they want more out of the map. The question is, will they, or will they attack UV like they did the rest of the easy maps they've played, and then rage-quit? I've quit in rage or despair in my share of maps, so I know how it feels. ;D

SteveD said:

And did you mean to say that Joshy made a map with 300 Chaingunners, plus distant spawning PEs? Now, if he did such a thing just to get revenge on you for Golachab, that would be beyond cool, and I'd definitely have to see that map. But I think I'd like to see it in any case. Waiting for the link.

Nah, it's even better than that (and much of it happened before Golachab was even conceived).

I originally became "famous" around these parts for giving one of Joshy's previous Megawads, Speed of Doom, 0 stars on /idgames for its flagrant Chaingunner abuse and pop-in abuse (it was a Cacoward winner). Later, I played one of his other wads, Surge, since I had seen people mention that it was like Scythe 1, and quite liked it; I shot him a PM with my thoughts on the various maps.

A few months later, I get a PM saying "hey, I'm going back and finishing Surge, you willing to playtest?" I responded with a "sure!"

And then found that he's making it more "Joshy-style" with Chaingunner rape everywhere in lots of the new maps, heh.

Oh, and if I was trying to give you a traumatic weekend, I'd have suggested a UV-Max of Death-Destiny's nochance.wad, heh.

Cynical said:

And then found that he's making it more "Joshy-style" with Chaingunner rape everywhere in lots of the new maps, heh.

Not to worry, I'll see to that hntr and hmp is more catered to your difficulty tastes but as for UV, well it's gonna stay and be as joshy as possible, heh.

Joshy said:

Not to worry, I'll see to that hntr and hmp is more catered to your difficulty tastes but as for UV, well it's gonna stay and be as joshy as possible, heh.

But will there be another Poison Ivy?

Snakes said:

But will there be another Poison Ivy?

Indeed there will be, no compromises there ;)

Brad_tilf said:

So, I'll ask you to do the same thing as I asked everyone else. Please upload them to the ftp (zip up the decorate file - with a text file to explain it's use and how to use it). Please also include a text file separately for each zip file - or include the decorate file in the zip file with each of the maps (easier - since they will be reviewed individually). Either way. The ftp instructions can be found here (username, password, etc...) http://www.doomwadstation.net/incoming/

Unfortunately I have a bad history trying to use FTPs. :(

Is there any other way I can send you the files? Email, perhaps? If not, then that is fine. But I am still very disappointed, because I wanted to know so badly what you think of these two particular wads.

Happy to see you reviewing again!