Gothic - Beta release

Hi guys, it's been a while. I'm trying to wrap up a gzdoom map that uses good old gothictx with a few other textures thrown in the mix. This map is so large it's obnoxious. It's the bane of my existence. I'm wrapping up gameplay and polishing some sections. It also needs a name and music or something. So it should only take another 5 years...







Here's the first beta release. I would like to thank Tango for taking the time to do some serious play testing. This map is large so I expect there will still be issues, but it shouldn't be so rough around the edges anymore. The music in this release is a place holder.

https://www.doomworld.com/idgames/levels/doom2/Ports/p-r/pinnacle

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That looks absolutely fantastic! I hope you find a name and some music fast, because I can't wait to play this! :)

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Ahhh, something that actually does look great - a rarity. I look forwards to checking it out!

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Looks very nice. If you need help with music, I can cut it down to 2 or 3 years for ya ;)

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wow yeah that looks fantastic. always been a huge fan of your stuff man

PS you should take primeval up on his offer :p

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PRIMEVAL said:

Looks very nice. If you need help with music, I can cut it down to 2 or 3 years for ya ;)


I love your music, that would be awesome!

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That super bright sky... Are you sure it matches the dark environment?

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Memfis said:

That super bright sky... Are you sure it matches the dark environment?

It really sells it, I think! A lot of the outdoor lighting in episode 4 is similarly dark and creates a very moody kind of contrast when set against the flat, glaring sky. Coupled with the mountain range and shading I'd say the lighting choices here help to evoke a more unique atmosphere and setting. It almost seems like a shadow-swamped valley at super high altitudes... in Hell! Or some such.

Anyhow, this looks very enticing indeed. Can't wait to play the end result!

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Well maybe, I guess even biggest problem with that sky for me is that a lot of it is just one color without different tones or anything. Looks kind of... unfinished? We'll see how it works in the game I guess.

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Oh nice, haven't played anything for GZDOOM in a while. I'll check that out.

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All that detail hurts my eyes, is it really that neccesery?

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Awesome map from what I've seen so far! I'm a bit stuck after having picked up all three keys. I've found the door marked with all three skulls, but I can't seem to figure out how to open it.

Anyway, there's definitely not so much detail that it should hurt anyones eyes! On the contrary, it's more like a feast! My eyes were in fact so happy that I don't have to wear glasses anymore!

The attention to detail is stunning! Most of all because much of it is in some way integrated into the gameplay. I love those floating platforms, cages, bridges etc. Also, those Caco pits are fucking awesome! Hell, everything's awesome! Right from the atmospheric background noise to the finely tuned ammo balance. Perhaps almost too finely tuned. It's easy to miss a pack of shells in the dark. But hey, that's only me nitpicking. And when we are at nitpicking, I'm not a fan of those switches where you don't know for sure what they just activated. I'm guilty of having done it myself in my own levels, so perhaps I shouldn't complain ;)

Absolutely fantastic level from start to end! Never gets boring and always some new fantastic architecture to look at! The best thing? We don't even have to pay for it! To think that we can get quality stuff like this for free... man, makes you feel all fuzzy inside, doesn't it :)

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Chris Hansen said:

Awesome map from what I've seen so far! I'm a bit stuck after having picked up all three keys. I've found the door marked with all three skulls, but I can't seem to figure out how to open it.


Oh sorry, this door isn't intuitive and isn't the door you want. The yellow key door is fairly close to where you find the yellow key. If you go up the stairs leaving the oustside area and turn right, then you have to go left and in there is an alcove leading to the yellow door on the right.

And thanks for all the kind words!

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Sweet map dude! Although I activated the elevator down to the big section and then jumped down after and got stuck. Just thought I'd mention that. It plays and looks great other than that so far.

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hobomaster22 said:

Oh sorry, this door isn't intuitive and isn't the door you want. The yellow key door is fairly close to where you find the yellow key. If you go up the stairs leaving the oustside area and turn right, then you have to go left and in there is an alcove leading to the yellow door on the right.

And thanks for all the kind words!


OK, thanks for the tip :)

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Gotta say most of my complaints about this map are the same complaints I have about most GZDOOM maps. But the biggest one is that it's just confusing. It's huge, there's lots of interconnectivity but I had no sense of direction. I didn't know what was my goal there. I kept pressing random buttons and running around, trying to figure out what they did. There's a door that has symbols of three keys on it but the keys themselves are not what you need to open it. The hell?

I love the first appearance of the Cacodemon burrows, haven't seen anything like it before. But I didn't like the moments when Cacos were coming out of them. After 5min I started wondering if they're infinite or not, as my ammo supplies were almost gone.

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Touchdown said:

There's a door that has symbols of three keys on it but the keys themselves are not what you need to open it. The hell?

I love the first appearance of the Cacodemon burrows, haven't seen anything like it before. But I didn't like the moments when Cacos were coming out of them. After 5min I started wondering if they're infinite or not, as my ammo supplies were almost gone.


I've removed the markings and I've more clearly marked the yellow key door. You're not the first to miss it. These updates and a few other minor tweaks are in dropbox.

None of the spawns are infinite. On the first it is only twice. Once if the skill is easy.

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Okay, here are some problems I noticed during my playthrough (GZdoom 1.8.2, UV difficulty):

-I run into repeated ammo shortages, insofar I had to rely on monster infigting in some areas. And even though I managed to accumulate 80+ shells, 70+ rockets and 500+ cells before the final fight, I run dry during it. I had to use "give cellpack" to be actually able to kill the 3 last cacos and the final brain (or whatever that thing is). I should note I didn't find the BFG before the final fight (mainly because I didn't know it was going to be the final fight), but BFG is not very effective against flying monsters anyway, so I doubt it would help. I think you should add 5 to 10% more ammo across the entire map, at least for UV difficulty.

-It is possible to jump into sector 994, without a way out. I suspect this problem will be common to many similar boundary sectors.

-For some reason, sector 1207 is damaging when the bridge is down.

-There is some problem with floor textures in sectors 2496 to 2498, they seem garbled. See the screenshot below.

-After I killed the "brain" thing, I went back near start, because I forgot some secrets there. To my amazement, I spotted a cyberdemon hanging in the air, stuck inside sector 3607. See the screenshots below. Also, there was a cacodemon in the same area. Moreover, 8 monsters (some revenants, cacos and hellknights) spawned around fire pit (sector 576). I'm not sure about the exact positions (the monsters move the moment they see me coming), but I'm fairly confident 2 revenants spawned in sector 642 and 2 cacos near/on things 4497 or 4498. I'm 100% sure they spawned, because I cleared every area I went through before. Interestingly, ceiling in that cave area also became corrupted (one big HOM). Scripting fluke? GZdoom 1.8.2 glitch? I have no idea.

-It would be nice if you included ACS source into the WAD, as this makes such bug-searching somewhat easier...

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Well, I was going to praise you above all since this map is potentially ballbustingly great even despite being confusing sometimes (I guess it's forgivable for big adventurous maps with great atmosphere), but that last spawn-spam that drained me completely reduced my enthusiasm to zero. Still, I'm posting here to tell you that this move sucks big time, it's tedious, it's time-consuming, and there's not enough ammo to deal with it efficiently, especially without secrets. You should either add more ammo (not only in the last fight, but all over the map as well) or remove this miserable spawn sequences completely, this is the most loathsome feature in zdoom and its derivatives, anyway. The one accompanying cyber was annoying but still acceptable to an extent, and this final one... Ugh.
Apart from Caleb13's list, I could only add that there are some rock texture misalignmnets here and there.

So overall - this could be an absolute beast and a serious Cacoward contender, but it still needs some serious tweaking and rethinking in places. Props for some cool chaotic fights, this map is pretty slow-paced most of the time, and they liven things up in right moments. The true 3D design is absolutely jaw-dropping, too.

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