Evil Returns Megawad (WIP)

WIP:  Maps 01-21 are completed.  Being hosted on Zdaemon and sometimes on Zandronum.  Give it a go and let me know if you find any problems and your thoughts on the wad itself. 

download:
http://www.mediafire.com/file/edv4tnnfbhr0eff/ER.zip (Beta 2.3 Released June 18th, 2017)


****A note to Complex Doom players: When you come across any Cyberdemons inside a cage, I didn't use the "impassable" feature on the linedef. I did that so you can shoot yourself up and retrieve the items dropped after killing the cyber. It's like this for every map and only for cybers. However, map 18 is the only exception. All cages with all monsters in that map are passable.

****If anyone is interesting in hosting this wad on Zdaemon or Zandronum, you're more than welcome to. Wad is designed for multiplayer and is solid for Complex Doom. All I ask is you only host maps 1-21 and keep your eyes peeled for updates. Thanks!


Screenshots:

Spoiler


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Edited by Cartel
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Seems like a fun wad to play with a bunch of people in ZDaemon. If you want, you can probably make it compatible with classic ports with some effort. Things to do:

- change some of the hanging bodies in dehacked so that they don't block the player below (example: inside the ship at the start of map01)
- use the "passthru" boom flag when you have two trigger lines next to each other (example: on map02 I can't open the door because the crusher trigger "eats" my presses, passthru would fix that)
- convert all sounds to the doom format (the revenants sounds turn into SSSSHHH in prboom-plus)
- convert all graphics to bmp instead of png (prboom-plus crashes on intermission due to a png picture)

I guess there might be other stuff and ideally you would have to play through the whole thing in prboom-plus or something, but that would be a good start.

Also Map01 is maybe a bit harsh for an opener. There is like no health except for that soulsphere (if the player manages to find it) and damn hitscanners are everywhere. The invis sphere helps a lot but it's still a sturggle to survive, maybe too annoying for a first map (you don't want the player to ragequit so fast).

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I haven't played it but it looks very fun and exciting from the screenshots. This kind of style is getting a lot of traction lately and its really cool and exciting to see it develop in more wads.

Definitely looking forward to an official release :)

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Hmmm, a small city on a small island. If I ever return to mapping Im gonna make a map like that

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I've only played through map01 properly but I've looked at the first 7 maps. I like the look of your maps and I can see that you've spent some time on them. Map07 seems to be a more deadly answer to plutonia's map11: hunted. I didn't last long due to a fatal trap when collecting a megasphere. Several of the megasphere's seem to be fatal traps, I hope there is a way to avoid them!

I hope you persist with your maps, they are looking good although some appear to be quite challenging. They are certainly worth playing.

Note there are so many mapping projects going on around doomworld and some big, long awaited projects going into final testing now - e.g. TNT Revilution. Try not to get discouraged if people aren't able to give your maps much attention right now. Once you get closer to your finish line, you will spark more interest I'm sure.

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Memfis said:

Also Map01 is maybe a bit harsh for an opener. There is like no health except for that soulsphere (if the player manages to find it) and damn hitscanners are everywhere. The invis sphere helps a lot but it's still a sturggle to survive, maybe too annoying for a first map (you don't want the player to ragequit so fast).


A second Invisibility at the end of the tunnel or at least some extra health is definitely needed as you have a lot of hitscan hitting you from miles away continuously in the huge open area. I actually died close to the MegaSphere, but even so it's an annoying first map.

There seems to be a massive amount of potential here, so when I get some time I'm definitely returning to give you feedback on this, hopefully soon.

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Played thru map 7 it looks good I noticed no alignments but when I went thru teleporter behind red door on map 7 I assumed it was the exit instead i found a fatal trap died and map restarted. Will try again. Thank you and keep up the good work.

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Memfis said:

Seems like a fun wad to play with a bunch of people in ZDaemon. If you want, you can probably make it compatible with classic ports with some effort. Things to do:

- change some of the hanging bodies in dehacked so that they don't block the player below (example: inside the ship at the start of map01)
- use the "passthru" boom flag when you have two trigger lines next to each other (example: on map02 I can't open the door because the crusher trigger "eats" my presses, passthru would fix that)
- convert all sounds to the doom format (the revenants sounds turn into SSSSHHH in prboom-plus)
- convert all graphics to bmp instead of png (prboom-plus crashes on intermission due to a png picture)

I guess there might be other stuff and ideally you would have to play through the whole thing in prboom-plus or something, but that would be a good start.

Also Map01 is maybe a bit harsh for an opener. There is like no health except for that soulsphere (if the player manages to find it) and damn hitscanners are everywhere. The invis sphere helps a lot but it's still a sturggle to survive, maybe too annoying for a first map (you don't want the player to ragequit so fast).


Thanks for the feedback. Definitely will look into this. As for map 01, I actually deleted some monsters before releasing this version. I don't want to make map 01 too difficult, but I don't want it to be too easy either. With the right strategy, it's an easy map. I think I may throw in some medkits at the tunnel exit just to play it safe. That should be good enough.

I talked to the TNS guys about hosting my wad and they seem to be cool with it, but that was back in November. Still waiting.

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tmorrow said:

I've only played through map01 properly but I've looked at the first 7 maps. I like the look of your maps and I can see that you've spent some time on them. Map07 seems to be a more deadly answer to plutonia's map11: hunted. I didn't last long due to a fatal trap when collecting a megasphere. Several of the megasphere's seem to be fatal traps, I hope there is a way to avoid them!

I hope you persist with your maps, they are looking good although some appear to be quite challenging. They are certainly worth playing.

Note there are so many mapping projects going on around doomworld and some big, long awaited projects going into final testing now - e.g. TNT Revilution. Try not to get discouraged if people aren't able to give your maps much attention right now. Once you get closer to your finish line, you will spark more interest I'm sure.



There is a hint near each trap on map 07. Didn't want to be a dick and not at least give some kind of warning before a trap. Once you go back to the trap areas, you'll see what I'm talking about.

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Threw in some medkits and stimpacks into map 01. Uploaded the new version.

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I'm not sure if you care a lot about single player or if this is mainly intended as a multiplayer experience, but I recommend flagging some monsters as "multiplayer only" to make single player a bit more fast-paced. For example, these teleporting imps on Map02 take way too long to kill when you're alone and it's not even a difficult fight, more like rather tedious since you just keep shooting for a long time. Similarly, you could probably lower the number of identical enemies in the red key area. The map is otherwise pretty cool, I like the color scheme a lot. I'm still wondering how to approach that crusher though. :D

I can pitch this for TNS again I guess, though I wonder if it's a bit too cramped for a crowd of players (some levels seem heavy on corridors and stuff).

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Ok, started a playthrough with your new version of the first map. I'll be playing continuously on UV in Zandronum.

Map 1 - A better version, but it still suffers from the same problem to an extent. The problem you have with Chaingunners and Arachnatrons is that as long as their line of sight isn't broken, they will never stop firing. When you have as many of them around the edges as you do, that can result in a lot of pain, even if you have the Armor, or have found the Soul Sphere/MegaSphere. A few less of them around the edge would make it a less frustrating experience. There's a MegaArmor secret near the end that would maybe be better suited to earlier on in the level. (Awesome choice for opening music however!)

Map 2 - I agree with the point about the mass Imps from Memfis. Alternately, you could provide a RL instead of a PG as that clears out crowds of weaker enemies in no time. There was a very Sunder-inspired trap for the Yellow Key which I quite liked.

Map 3 - You like your Imp surprise traps don't you? Not much to say about this except it is possible to grab the MegaSphere and BFG just by running at the wall they're behind because they're so close to it. I didn't find the secret but I was able to get both of the items. You may want to make that section a little bigger so that you can't grab them like that.

Map 4 - Not too much to say here. The Chaingunner trap is very brutal, although you can skip past it and come back to kill them. Didn't find either of the secrets though. I used the BFG for the first time in this map and was very surprised by the noise it made!

Overall this is proving quite enjoyable. I'm not usually one for aesthetics, but the levels do look fantastic. I'll hopefully get to more maps soon.

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I went ahead and replaced all chaingunners on the edge in map01 with former sergeants and I replaced some of the chaingunners on the castle area with former humans and former sergeants. Added a blue armor at the beginning and changed the secret to something else.


I removed the red flames at the beginning on map02 to free up some space and made the room with the ssg larger so it doesn't get too cramped during multiplayer gameplay. Replaced the plasma gun in the blue key imp trap area with a rocket launcher and gave enough rockets to get the job done. I added the plasma gun to the yellow key imp trap area.


I also made some changes to map05. Removed all tall green lamps on the pillars. Had some complaints about that. Added two more radiation suits and lowered the acid damage.

I did what I could to map15 towards the end. I made some areas bigger because there could be problems with players not able to get through certain areas if it's too crowded.


*Just a quick note, the BFG and mega in map03 isn't obtainable. It's more of a troll attempt. But if are able to get it, let me know. I actually had one of my testers get it. Crazy!

But yea, I appreciate all the feedback so far, keep them coming.

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Cartel said:

*Just a quick note, the BFG and mega in map03 isn't obtainable. It's more of a troll attempt. But if are able to get it, let me know. I actually had one of my testers get it. Crazy!


I don't quite understand this comment. I said that I was able to get it, and if you say one of your testers can get it then it's pretty clear that you can actually get them.

Map 5 - Not much to say here. Seemed fine to me.

Map 6 - The lift down to the 2 Spider Masterminds is quite harsh as you are directly in their line of sight and can take a ton of damage from them. Other than that this seemed fine to me.

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degree23 said:

I don't quite understand this comment. I said that I was able to get it, and if you say one of your testers can get it then it's pretty clear that you can actually get them.

Map 5 - Not much to say here. Seemed fine to me.

Map 6 - The lift down to the 2 Spider Masterminds is quite harsh as you are directly in their line of sight and can take a ton of damage from them. Other than that this seemed fine to me.



I guess I should rephrase that statement, it 'shouldn't' be obtainable. I may have fix that now. Thanks for letting me know.

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Played through the firsy 10 maps before I couldn't go any further. Im gonna be brief here. The maps look pretty, although large grandiose maps aren't usually my thing. I can appreciate the time and effort it took to make the overall aesthetics of the map. But for me it comes down to the gameplay and to be honest I wasn't having much fun playing this.

Half way into the wad the maps get really slaughter heavy and unforgiving. It felt like every other room I stepped into I had to hose down dozens of high tier monsters with my plasma rifle while being incenerated by multiple archviles every several seconds. It reached a point where I was dying so much I just said to myself " Fuck it " and quit. Getting through the maps just became a chore and I wasn't enjoying myself.

Sorry if this comes off as harsh or if I sound like a douche, but in the end these maps just don't tickle any of my fancies.

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Count651 said:

Played through the firsy 10 maps before I couldn't go any further. Im gonna be brief here. The maps look pretty, although large grandiose maps aren't usually my thing. I can appreciate the time and effort it took to make the overall aesthetics of the map. But for me it comes down to the gameplay and to be honest I wasn't having much fun playing this.

Half way into the wad the maps get really slaughter heavy and unforgiving. It felt like every other room I stepped into I had to hose down dozens of high tier monsters with my plasma rifle while being incenerated by multiple archviles every several seconds. It reached a point where I was dying so much I just said to myself " Fuck it " and quit. Getting through the maps just became a chore and I wasn't enjoying myself.

Sorry if this comes off as harsh or if I sound like a douche, but in the end these maps just don't tickle any of my fancies.


Not being a douche at all. Everybody is entitled to their own opinion. When it comes to mapping, you can't please everyone. Some people will hate this wad, some people will love it and some will think it's okay. That's life. Thanks for the feedback.

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Map 7 - Traps that you have no way of escaping, and no obvious way of knowing that it will be inescapable, are frustrating and not fun. Maps like this make me inclined to not want to play any more. Haven't finished it yet.

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degree23 said:

Map 7 - Traps that you have no way of escaping, and no obvious way of knowing that it will be inescapable, are frustrating and not fun. Maps like this make me inclined to not want to play any more. Haven't finished it yet.



Hmm, sorry to hear that, bud. I did add the word "traps" into the name of the map, but I guess the tip I gave before each trap could be a bit more obvious. Any recommendations?

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Memfis said:

I'm not sure if you care a lot about single player or if this is mainly intended as a multiplayer experience, but I recommend flagging some monsters as "multiplayer only" to make single player a bit more fast-paced. For example, these teleporting imps on Map02 take way too long to kill when you're alone and it's not even a difficult fight, more like rather tedious since you just keep shooting for a long time. Similarly, you could probably lower the number of identical enemies in the red key area. The map is otherwise pretty cool, I like the color scheme a lot. I'm still wondering how to approach that crusher though. :D

I can pitch this for TNS again I guess, though I wonder if it's a bit too cramped for a crowd of players (some levels seem heavy on corridors and stuff).



Evolution said the same thing about it being too cramped. I tested all small maps with several bots and thought it wasn't much of a problem. I fixed map 02 where it isn't as cramped as before. The only maps I think could cause problems would be map 05 and MAYBE map 03. The pillars that you have to strafe across on the map 05 is the only area I would be worried about, but players would have to have patience. The rest of the map should be okay. And after map 05, the rest of the wad is fine, plenty of open space for a large number of players.

Not sure how far TNS got with NewGothic Movement 2 last Thursday, so I'm still hoping my wad gets hosted soon. I tried contacting the admin for the UK MultiServer since he's hosted maps for me in the past, but he's disappeared. No website or email to contact him with, and he hasn't logged on in months. I may get back into the #ducks channel on Zdaemon and see what the TNS guys are planning for this Thursday.

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Map 7 - Finished this now. Traps that just kill you if you fall in aren't very good in my opinion. Traps that will take a lot of health if approached in the wrong way are ok, but ones that leave you with no escape aren't fun.

Map 8 - The part with the Red Key is annoying due to the Revenants on the top platform. However, you can actually shoot most of the Revenants/Hell Knights from the stairs before you enter the room, making the area much safer than I think you want it to be.

Map 9 - In the room with the MegaSphere with the 3 switches you need to hit to exit the room, you can hit the switches before they appear. You may want to have something that blocks the switches from being activated in an incorrect order, as you can skip the room fairly easily by hitting the 3rd switch in the sequence and leaving the room without seeing half the monsters in the room. The ammo is quite abundant on this map, especially as you can get a BFG to really deal out some damage, so it may be worth removing a few boxes of RL/BFG ammo, but otherwise I really enjoyed this map.

Map 10 - The Plutonia Map 29 influence is immediately apparent here. I spent quite a while searching for the red key here. Hiding it behind the switch isn't a very good place to put it in my opinion as I spent ages searching around for what else could have opened in the meantime. The section of teleporters at the end isn't great either. There's no reason to necessarily suspect that the first one will take you up into the cages, but the problem is that if you haven't killed the 2 Cyberdemons first then there's a very high chance of you being killed by them as that is the smallest of all the cages so there's little room to run around. I want to like this map, but frustrations like that at the end of a long and large map are very off-putting.

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Hit and miss for me, but overall I quite liked it. Map15 was my favorite. Nice job!

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degree23 said:

Map 7 - Finished this now. Traps that just kill you if you fall in aren't very good in my opinion. Traps that will take a lot of health if approached in the wrong way are ok, but ones that leave you with no escape aren't fun.

Map 8 - The part with the Red Key is annoying due to the Revenants on the top platform. However, you can actually shoot most of the Revenants/Hell Knights from the stairs before you enter the room, making the area much safer than I think you want it to be.

Map 9 - In the room with the MegaSphere with the 3 switches you need to hit to exit the room, you can hit the switches before they appear. You may want to have something that blocks the switches from being activated in an incorrect order, as you can skip the room fairly easily by hitting the 3rd switch in the sequence and leaving the room without seeing half the monsters in the room. The ammo is quite abundant on this map, especially as you can get a BFG to really deal out some damage, so it may be worth removing a few boxes of RL/BFG ammo, but otherwise I really enjoyed this map.

Map 10 - The Plutonia Map 29 influence is immediately apparent here. I spent quite a while searching for the red key here. Hiding it behind the switch isn't a very good place to put it in my opinion as I spent ages searching around for what else could have opened in the meantime. The section of teleporters at the end isn't great either. There's no reason to necessarily suspect that the first one will take you up into the cages, but the problem is that if you haven't killed the 2 Cyberdemons first then there's a very high chance of you being killed by them as that is the smallest of all the cages so there's little room to run around. I want to like this map, but frustrations like that at the end of a long and large map are very off-putting.


I fixed map 07 where the traps no longer lead to your death. They're still traps, but I changed it up a bit. Adding new link later on today.

Thanks for the tip on map 09, I'll fix that and I'll go ahead and replace some cell charge with cell charge packs.

As for map 10, yes, Plutonia map 29 was my inspiration here. One of my favorite maps as a child. I guess I could consider changing the red key to a better, more visible location. You made a good point about the teleports at the end. I'm going to add another teleport in each area so you can go back. The only reason I added those teleports was for Complex Doom players. They may want to get the items from the monsters they killed.

Good feedback.

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Phml said:

Hit and miss for me, but overall I quite liked it. Map15 was my favorite. Nice job!


Surprised you liked map 15. That was one of the maps I thought about scraping. Out of curiosity, what maps didn't you like?

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Just a little update...

Map 07 deathtraps were fixed so you no longer die.

Map 10 red key was moved to a different location and teleports were added towards the end of the map (cage area) so you can go back if needed. The megasphere in the room with all three key switches can be retrieved.

And I fixed a few cosmetic things.

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Here are my thoughts, first 10 levels only.

MAP01

Health is really tight on this first level that seems to consist of only hitscanners. Considering how easy it is to get chewed up by these guys, I'd say put more in.

MAP02

Blue key room was fucking hard to deal with thanks to the chaingunners. That's a room that could use some health in it too. Also feel free to disagree with me on this but I don't think these walls look correct.

MAP03

Only 0% items is possible since the megasphere can't be obtained, not sure if intentional.

MAP06

In the hall with the yellow key, there's some chaingunners behind cages in the hall, but two of them are behind STONE6 textures, not sure if this was an error, the other two were behind BRNSMAL1 textures and I can see them. This is also easily the toughest map so far and again could use more health scattered about.

MAP07

The acid room that you can go to with certain teleporters sucks and I don't know why you included it. It has two arch-viles that you can't really evade their fire from and the ground is consistently damaging. Also one megasphere trap locks you in so the max items that you can legitimately recieve is 85%. The exit switch texture could be different too, doesn't make a lot of sense for what looks like an elevator to have the Duke3d ACCESS - LOCKED switch, especially when pressing it to LOCKED would exit the level. Really interesting trap level though, but it can be infuriating.

MAP08

Given the slaughter-like tendencies of this one I really was expecting more health. Sometimes the soul spheres you have currently aren't enough. This is especially true for the red key section, the hallway with cacodemons before it, and the big church area close to the end (although the invulnerability helped there there).

MAP10

Is it possible to reach this megasphere? Also here's a big map that actually needs some more health too. A few more medikits scattered around the city would help.

So far, these levels sure could use a lot more health, especially when they start getting real difficult.

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Getsu Fune said:

Here are my thoughts, first 10 levels only.

MAP01

Health is really tight on this first level that seems to consist of only hitscanners. Considering how easy it is to get chewed up by these guys, I'd say put more in.

MAP02

Blue key room was fucking hard to deal with thanks to the chaingunners. That's a room that could use some health in it too. Also feel free to disagree with me on this but I don't think these walls look correct.

MAP03

Only 0% items is possible since the megasphere can't be obtained, not sure if intentional.

MAP06

In the hall with the yellow key, there's some chaingunners behind cages in the hall, but two of them are behind STONE6 textures, not sure if this was an error, the other two were behind BRNSMAL1 textures and I can see them. This is also easily the toughest map so far and again could use more health scattered about.

MAP07

The acid room that you can go to with certain teleporters sucks and I don't know why you included it. It has two arch-viles that you can't really evade their fire from and the ground is consistently damaging. Also one megasphere trap locks you in so the max items that you can legitimately recieve is 85%. The exit switch texture could be different too, doesn't make a lot of sense for what looks like an elevator to have the Duke3d ACCESS - LOCKED switch, especially when pressing it to LOCKED would exit the level. Really interesting trap level though, but it can be infuriating.

MAP08

Given the slaughter-like tendencies of this one I really was expecting more health. Sometimes the soul spheres you have currently aren't enough. This is especially true for the red key section, the hallway with cacodemons before it, and the big church area close to the end (although the invulnerability helped there there).

MAP10

Is it possible to reach this megasphere? Also here's a big map that actually needs some more health too. A few more medikits scattered around the city would help.

So far, these levels sure could use a lot more health, especially when they start getting real difficult.



Map 01 - I don't plan to make anymore changes to this map. It's a very easy map with the right strategy. Simple kill the monsters in the tunnel first, then go back and grab the invisibility sphere, grab the chaingun and head to the structure with the soulshere. From there you can kill a majority of the enemies and the enemies will kill each other as well.

Map 02 - I threw in some extra health in the blue key area and in the yellow key area. The walls were done intentionally, but I did fix them a little bit so they won't look so flat.

Map 03 - Yes, it was done intentionally. More of an appearance thing. However, degree23 and another tester was able to get them. Not sure how, though. You would have to ask degree.

Map 06 - The chaingunners behind the stone6 wall isn't an error. Nothing more than a surprise attack. I went ahead and added some more health.

Map 07 - This map has traps, if you want the megasphere, you'll have to earn them. But, I decided to remove the arches in the acid pit. The traps will remain where they are. I still plan to add something at the beginning to let the player/s know there will be traps.

Map 08 - More health added

Map 10 - I'm glad you mentioned that, I was suppose to add that info about the megasphere in the room with all three key switches in the update I made, but forgot to. But yes, the mega is obtainable. I found that trying to get it from the left side works the best. I also added more health.

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Cartel said:

Map 01 - I don't plan to make anymore changes to this map. It's a very easy map with the right strategy. Simple kill the monsters in the tunnel first, then go back and grab the invisibility sphere, grab the chaingun and head to the structure with the soulshere. From there you can kill a majority of the enemies and the enemies will kill each other as well.


Interesting strategy, however I'm pretty sure many players, including myself, usually rush headfirst into the open fray and get shot up. That's usually a first strategy for someone like me who's played plenty of wads before.

Cartel said:

Map 02 - I threw in some extra health in the blue key area and in the yellow key area. The walls were done intentionally, but I did fix them a little bit so they won't look so flat.


The only issue I have with the walls is that they are actually step textures. You usually don't see that used for walls, especially for walls near the bars and such. The wall textures around the step texture would work fine there.

Cartel said:

Map 03 - Yes, it was done intentionally. More of an appearance thing. However, degree23 and another tester was able to get them. Not sure how, though. You would have to ask degree.


I know what this is, it's called a grab. I have seen players use it to get out-of-reach items but I generally don't do this kind of thing anyways. It's alright though. This applies for MAP10's megasphere as well I think. Will probably end up playing the latter half of this wad tomorrow.

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Okay, did latter half of maps. I assume MAP17 is an interlude or an unfinished map?

MAP11

Again, nothing wrong with adding more medikits, as this is another rather hard level without them.

MAP12

IMO it's never a good idea to put arch-viles behind bars that you'll eventually come to. It's hard to hit them without a hitscan and their fire attack gets distracting enough when fighting the other enemies in the room. Also add a more convenient teleport back to the start since backtracking isn't fun. The one slime room with the three cyberdemons just before the Entryway homage is really frustrating and tedious and I recommend, if you are going to do difficulty settings in the future, to remove one of these guys.

MAP13

Three cacodemons never teleported into the map, they were supposed to upon hitting the switch in the plasma rifle room (which also needed health of course). I'd say fix the teleport closets they're in.

MAP16

Those soul sphere secrets are an utter nightmare to get. It also makes emergency healing all the more tedious. I guess you can keep them but it is pretty annoying having to miss each of them and such. Another slaughter-like map that definitely could use a lot more health than it has currently as well, especially in the areas completely devoid of it. The blue key room is almost impossible for me too. The room after the blue bars honestly should have at least two megaspheres in it, instead of a soul sphere and megaarmor; that's considering the combat this one had.

MAP18

Put a block monster line someplace at the exit area so that the spiderdemon doesn't retreat there. He did that on my run here. Also really not sure on the viles in the secret areas. And of course, health could be a lot more abundant for this map

MAP19

Holy how this is probably the one level that needs health the most. Three megaspheres and a few stimpacks on the walls aren't enough for a level of this caliber. I was hurting the entire way through. A general rule of thumb for slaughtermaps like this and the ones before it is to make sure that health and armor are quite plentiful (don't drown the player with supplies of course, but make sure that the supplies aren't that low). Budgeting it that way makes them a bit more survivable.

MAP20

I'm not sure why sector 557 is a secret sector nor do I know of any way of reaching it.

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