MajorRawne

Ah, thank you so much! Off to try this now.

Someone please help. I have added the Superdemon from the Realm 666 Bestiary, a Cyberdemon which does not have a weapon. I have managed to remove his ranged attack (yeah, flames came out of his fingers) and I've implement a powerful melee attack. However, the demon sort of runs around the place bouncing off the walls and he rarely uses his attack, leaving him defenceless. When he does use the attack, it uses a couple of frames of his death animation. I want to be able to use his pain animation instead. It'll look weird, but it'll do.

Here is his Decorate:

/// The Superdemon (AKA: Uncybered Cyberdemon) ///
/// By: Xim  ///

actor Superdemon 31269
{
  spawnid 114
  obituary "%o was crushed by a superdemon."
  health 3500
  radius 40
  height 110
  mass 1000
  speed 27
  painchance 4
  seesound "cyber/sight"
  painsound "cyber/pain"
  deathsound "superdemon/death"
  activesound "cyber/active"
  MONSTER
  +BOSS
  +FLOORCLIP
  +NORADIUSDMG
  +DONTMORPH
  +MISSILEMORE
  states
  {
  Spawn:
    SUPR AB 10 A_Look
    loop
  See:
    SUPR A 3 A_Hoof
    SUPR ABBCC 3 A_Chase
    SUPR D 3 A_Hoof
    SUPR D 3
    loop
  Melee:
    SUPR G 1 A_FaceTarget
    SUPR G 6 A_SkelWhoosh
    SUPR I 6 A_CustomMeleeAttack(random(75, 125) * 1, "skeleton/melee") // Does not make any sound when missing
    goto see
  Pain:
    SUPR G 10 A_Pain
    goto See
  Death:
    SUPR H 3 A_PlaySound ("superdemon/snarl")
    SUPR H 3 A_CustomMissile("Blood",0,0,random(-80,-100),2,random(45,80))
    SUPR I 3 A_Scream
    SUPR I 3 A_CustomMissile("Blood",0,0,random(-80,-100),2,random(45,80))
    SUPR J 2 A_CustomMissile ("SuperDemonArm", 54, -50, -50)
    SUPR KL 4 A_CustomMissile("Blood",0,0,random(-80,-100),2,random(45,80))
    SUPR M 6 A_PlaySound ("superdemon/crash")
    SUPR N 6 A_CustomMissile("Blood",0,0,random(-80,-100),2,random(45,80))
    SUPR O 6 A_NoBlocking
    SUPR O -1 A_BossDeath
  //Raise:
    //NONE A 0 A_NoBlocking
    //NONE A 1 A_SpawnItem("Cyberdemon")
    //Stop   
  }
}

Holy smegma, I haven't seen some of these maps in twenty years,

Cleimos 2!!! I remember playing that as one of the first ever custom mapsets!

Lots of people mentioning Egyptian Slaughter a.k.a. Misri Halek (which I've always mis-spelled Mishri Halek because English people lack the foreign language gene).

I didn't include that because the gameplay has always seemed a bit off to me - it's easy to lose your way and run round for ages. That said, the music is perfectly chosen. As an exploration and adventure map, it remains unparallelled to this day. Alien Vendetta's greatest strength was its sense of location. You aren't just running through a weird jumble of rooms that all look the same, you are in an actual environment. Misri Halek doesn't just do this well, it perfects it. This is the only case where I'd consider a map legendary even if it's not my favourite to play.

Of course, when you do know where you're going, eg climbing up that mountain, it's full on Doom fun.

11 hours ago, jerrysheppy said:

 

Now this makes me curious what the difference is.  The only sky upgrade I was aware of for PSX Doom was the iconic animated flames.

The PSX night sky texture was sharp and detailed with a beautiful blue horizon line, whereas on PC they tend to be a blurry, pixellated mess in comparison.

My top ten:

Beast Island - Alien Vendetta map 08

From the gorgeous sunset sky, to the crumbling ruins, to the achingly nostalgic music (Huline Temple theme from Lands of Lore 2), and ultimately to your first breathtaking glimpse of an entire castle awaiting exploration, this one's got so much emotion attached for me.

Twilight Descends - PSX Doom level 29

Stunning in its day, immersive in how it's crafted, a notable step up from the original maps and a tour de force in making Playstation Doom terrifying.

Hell Keep - PSX Doom level 17

Totally different and hugely superior to the original map, this like all PSX exclusive maps is notably tougher and scarier than the original maps. Used to leave me breathless with my heart hammering to play this on UV from a pistol start. Success was never guaranteed.

Sever the Wicked - PSX Doom level 26

It's so weird but on deathmatch, this was such an incredible level. My friends, my brother and I seem to be the only people who discovered this level's potential. Achingly lonely music, a hellish sunset sky and map design that somehow works for 1v1 play meant we spent more time on this map than any other.

Crater - PSX Final Doom level 17

Lonely, melancholy, tons of extra places to explore and a gorgeous night sky. This was a glimpse of what Doom might have been: a creepy, living, breathing environment where you could go places just to see them, rather than because locked doors force you down there.

Nessus - PSX Final Doom level 9

A glorious, gorgeous map with a kick. The Toxin Refinery music suits it so well.

Afterlife - Hell Revealed map 26

An absolute masterpiece of abstract design which has stuck in my head for 20+ years, which is precisely the time it took me to beat it on UV from a pistol start with a mighty 78% kills (running away from numerous Cyberdemons). And I did it with only the double barrelled shotgun. Take that, Afterlife!

Daemonic Hordes - Alien Vendetta map 25

Just pure destruction with way more personality than a modern-day arena map. You move through several increasingly jaw-dropping, increasingly tough areas, feeling like you're exploring the ruins of an alien civilisation that was overcome by Hell. Never beaten it from a pistol start but that will change this year.

Go 2 It - Plutonia map 32

A map I never cared for until I beat it on UV from a pistol start, it's unendingly exciting and totally relentless.

Playground - Hell Revealed 2 map 32

The map that turned me into a man. I had to drop down two difficulty levels to beat this the first time. UV seemed impossible, but beating it (after considerable effort) was so sweet.

Beat STRAIN today. Well, I couldn't find the map 29 exit and don't play IOS maps, but whatever.

Currently playing Kama Sutra, just beat map 9 and am now going to play the maps through from a pistol start rather than playing the megawad through.

After this, maybe Coffee Break, then maybe Requiem.

1 hour ago, PSXDoomer said:

Same here! 

Probably cos on the PSX you have to hold the run button down all the time =D

Been so long since I played Doom on an actual PSX that I forgot about it until now.

We should make an "Upgraded Sandy Petersen maps" megawad. DTWSD, except we make them not so long and not very boring!

Scythe.

Alien Vendetta.

Both have difficulty spikes on UV but if you play through consecutively, or pistol-start each map on a lower difficulty, they're nowhere near as hard as they look. Mostly.

I second @OutrageousVideos and @PSXDoomer, Go2It and in fairness the whole Plutonia Experiment on UV will definitely build your skills, whereas HR map 32 Playground seems IMPOSSIBLE at first but is probably the best trainer in the business. There's an invincibility right behind you at the start, use it and get going!

Sandy Petersen levels IMO (everyone feel free to list your own opinions):

E1M8: Phobos Anomaly - good

E2M1: Deimos Anomaly - not bad

E2M2: Containment Area - good but a bit long

E2M3: Refinery - boring

E2M4: Deimos Lab - good but a bit long

E2M5: Command Center - good but a bit long

E2M6: Halls of the Damned - ok

E2M7: Spawning Vats (**) - really like this one

E2M8: Tower of Babel - legendary status but not exactly much replay value

E2M9: Fortress of Mystery - pointlessly crap

E3M1: Hell Keep (**) - PSX exclusive map is 1000x better

E3M2: Slough of Despair (*) - crap

E3M3: Pandemonium - surprisingly good exploration map

E3M4: House of Pain - boring

E3M5: Unholy Cathedral - atrocious, too long and confusing to navigate, boring gameplay

E3M6: Mt. Erebus - again, too long and boring

E3M7: Limbo - confusing progression and boring, but terrific atmosphere

E3M8: Dis (*) - rubbish

E3M9: Warrens (*) - meh

MAP01: Entryway - really good

MAP07: Dead Simple - really good, legendary

MAP08: Tricks and Traps - excellent concept

MAP09: The Pit - too long and boring

MAP10: Refueling Base - absolutely superlative on co-op if both players take different routes

MAP12: The Factory - too long and boring but a really nice concept with good atmosphere

MAP13: Downtown (*) - don't know it well/find it overrated

MAP16: Suburbs - superb

MAP18: The Courtyard - superb

MAP19: The Citadel - an absolute shocker, too long, too boring, too convoluted

MAP21: Nirvana - always loved this one, view it with affection for its weirdness

MAP23: Barrels o' Fun - ok but a bit long

MAP24: The Chasm (*) - makes The Citadel look like Mishri Halek, the worst map in all of classic Doom?

MAP27: Monster Condo - too long and boring

MAP28: The Spirit World (*) - loo long and boring, progression is convoluted/confusing

MAP30: Icon of Sin (*) - rubbish but "Iconic"

MAP31: Wolfenstein § (*) - rubbish, what a waste

MAP32: Grosse § (*) - rubbish, even more of a waste

Summary: He made some absolutely legendary maps, some absolutely terrible maps, but "too long and boring" or "too long and convoluted" crop up quite a bit. Far from a terrible designer but not really a patch on Romero, he can best be described as "the workhorse with big ideas that didn't all pan out". Very surprised he didn't make Industrial Zone which is definitely his style. It's interesting that many of his maps were either cut out or replaced for PSX Doom, and I would definitely say PSX Doom 2 is superior to the original. Nearly a third of Sandy's maps didn't make it.

(*) - cut from PSX port; (**) - map replaced on PSX port

Oops, I didn't realise Bobby Prince worked on the ROTT soundtrack. It's unimaginably better than his work on Doom and for the first time ever I can count myself a fan! What a weird day.

That said, the Ultimate Doom soundtrack is miles better than Doom 2. I have a lot of affection for the episode 1 music in particular. The problem is when you put it in a wider context, it doesn't sound as good as other games from that time period eg Duke Nukem, Alien Trilogy etc. Quake 2 blows it totally out of the water.

I think my favourite thing about PSX Doom was the lack of an Icon of Sin but you really have done a fantastic job here. Can we have a video of just the Arch-Vile sounds instead of having Nazis yelling over him?

The castles featured throughout Alien Vendetta. But mainly the way the maps descended into hell with the skies getting darker.

I'm a sucker for a nice sunset sky, whether that be a normal yellow/gold one or a hellish red one.

That said - without a doubt, the Master Levels on PSX Doom with the night sky. The PC just can't seem to get starry sky textures right.

STRAIN
Legendary early-days megawad noted for new weapons, new enemies, often confusing progression and the weird way it was broken up into four segments (thankfully now corrected).

Music: I really liked it.

Map design: This is by far the most divisive thing about STRAIN. It's half wonderful, half horrible. You will run round in circles looking for a switch or a door you've missed. MANY maps force you to make extended runs through nukage with either a single suit, a hidden suit or no suit. I had to noclip and resurrect several times. The maps start to get repetitive: in AV, the later maps are called Whispering Shadows, Firewalk With Me and Point Dreadful, and are a tour de force in hell mapping. In STRAIN we get Sub-laboratory, Main Laboratory and Main Laboratory II. The upside is, the maps are often small and massively detailed. There are lots of rooms and nooks to explore, lots of secrets, and many of the early maps are exciting.

Monster deployment: This is my favourite use of new monsters in any megawad ever. The project mastermind didn't like the Doom 2 monsters, so he made a bunch of new creatures to replace them. The Doom Viscount, a white Baron replacing the Mancubus, is surely the scariest and nastiest inclusion ever, and just one appearing in front of you can derail your progress as he cuts a swathe towards you. The new Imp is surely one of my favourite monsters. These things should be in the Bestiary! The new monsters are never spammed so they don't get boring, and I love the way the fit in effortlessly. Many people disagree about the new monsters which is proof that heresy is everywhere.

New weapons: The shotgun and pistol fire quicker and you get awesome double fists. Unfortunately the brand new weapons, while showing what Doom was capable of by drastically altering the characteristics of the BFG and plasma gun, are very poorly implemented. The BFG replacement is hilariously bad, but only uses rocket ammo. Plasma - or "batteries" - are reserved for the NFG, a devastating assault rifle which is crippled by an ammo capacity of 100 with a backpack. Considering that it can take 25-30 shots to kill a Viscount, along with tragically limited battery supplies in each map, this weapon is tantamount to useless outside of a total emergency. Shouldn't new weapons be better than the ones they're replacing?

Difficulty level: Starts off easy but the difficulty ramps up. It's satisfying and sometimes feels hardcore, but will certainly not be off-putting to less experienced players. Ammo balance for the shotgun and NFG are wonky to say the least, but there are plenty of rockets and bullets. I used the chaingun a lot. I did run out of all ammo on one early map.

Is it worth playing: Yes, with reservations. If you don't like backtracking while wondering what you've missed, STRAIN definitely isn't for you. On the other hand when it's firing on all cylinders, you're on a good map and a pair of Hell Viscounts are ripping the crap out of everyone nearby, I found myself grinning and enjoying STRAIN more than I've enjoyed Doom in years. Just don't play too many maps at once, as some of them are very similar to each other.

Maybe it's your settings. I'm using an MSI laptop with in i-7700HQ processor, 16gb RAM and an SSD, and I only ever get lag in Doom when my GZDoom settings are set to classic Doom style. My GPU is a 1060 3GB, so I'd expect the graphics card to be the bottleneck on this system. I do get lag on the Total Warhammer 2 campaign map for mortal empires on max settings. EDIT: It really struggles with Football Manager 21 too, although like a tard I have most leagues available.

Wonder if it's possible to replace the 3GB GPU with the 6GB version?

In World War 2, British soldiers would sing "Hitler, has only got one ball!"

I used to sing the same thing about my friend back in my college days. When he was a kid, he was playing football (I won't insult the sport by referring to it as "soccer") with his dad in the back garden. His dad accidentally kicked the wrong ball.

On topic, given how long it takes me to do anything in Doom Builder - an incredibly useful tool - John Romero would have chucked me out of id Software within two days. I am in awe of John and Sandy, even though Sandy's maps tend to be my least favourites.

I'm not averse to a bit of symmetry, it's when a map has like four vast arenas, each with the same bad guys and same powerups that bugs me. Now this worked in HR2's Playground for example, but look at Resistance is Futile from HR1. That is anti-symmetry in action, each new area is different with only a small number of repeated sections.

It's not a map-killer or anything like that, it's just nice to see some original thinking. "The east corridor had two Imps and a Manc, I am compelled by the forces of the universe to place their clones in the west corridor. Nothing more organised than a horde of hellspawn."

10 minutes ago, yakfak said:

I love The Master Levels cos its the only official set with Titan Manor in, plus them (and old PC mags and cover discs) were the reason I learned how to use the -file argument in DOS a squillion years ago. they get memed on fierce, most of the maps are fine, some are great, all of them are better than things like Hell Keep imo

basically Maximum Doom is part of the best Doom game. thanks!

 

2nd place is obv. Doom 2

Sorry to mention it in 99% of posts, but as I came into Doom via the PSX Port, the Master Levels included in PSX Final Doom are among my favourite maps in all of Doom. I suppose creepy lighting, scary music and that gorgeous night sky texture make the difference, and the maps fit the slower, minion-bashing style of play.

HELL REVEALED 2

Probably regarded as the hardest megawad of its time, certainly one of the most famous. Viewed by some as an insurmountable challenge, by others as a cheap knock-off of HR with better graphics in place of better gameplay. Which is correct? Ask your mother, for she sat in my lap as I played it through!

Music: Starts out well, but rapidly becomes cheese. A bit like the gameplay!

Map design: There are too many "tributes" to other maps, particularly HR maps, so it can feel somewhat reptitive at times. Despite this, nearly all of HR2 is gorgeous in comparison to the original. Map layouts tend to be small and intricate, with lots of rooms, 3d bridges etc, plenty of nooks and crannies. The maps are often quite punishing as if the mappers decided you need to die as soon and often as possible. Inmost Dens III is frankly insulting, it's one of a tiny number of maps that you wonder how it got past quality control, possibly a symptom of HR2 languishing in development hell before being pushed out into the world.

Monster deployment: More like a slaughter wad in some respects, but the beauty of the Hell Revealeds is that they play like proper, traditional megawads. Yeah it is insanely hard and UV on some levels looks unbeatable, but difficulty levels are fully supported. There is a bit of a leap between HNTR and HMP, and a ridiculous leap between HMP and UV, but as long as you prepare for the crap factor of "Arch-Viles hidden behind Revenants", which I shall henceforth call Doom Blight, this makes SUPERB training for modern wads.

Difficulty level: This is where I am going to confuse you. In some respects, the diffiulty of HR2 far surpasses that of the original. But weirdly, overall, you get the impression that once you know what to do on each map, HR2 is a pushover in comparison. I actually had more of a blast learning and beating HR2 from a pistol start than I did the original. (Initially I dropped to Not Too Rough, then HMP, then again on UV.) Some original maps are simply beyond either my skill, or my patience, whereas I kicked HR2's arse after a few days of learning. Sometimes the difficulty is pure cheese, sometimes through bad map design, sometimes it's an absolutely epic challenge. Playground, the notorious super-secret map, was probably the most satisfying level to beat that I've ever played.

Is it worth playing: I found myself struggling to enjoy this at first until I tried them all from a pistol start. My skill improved markedly, then I could see how wonderful and underappreciated HR2 is. It lacks the raw innocence, the stubborn brutality, of the original, but there are fewer "nope" maps here, it looks good for its age and I realised I was enjoying every single minute. Doom Blight moments didn't spoil the fun. I'm in Hell Revealed withdrawal now. HR2 is definitely worth a second look, and it now caters for those who can't manage Sunder.

There is only one way to resolve this difference of opinion: the game of champions.

19 minutes ago, Lucky_Edie said:

 

Platforming highlights the players inability to control doomguy in a simple manner by removing outside factors. It isn't a troll or designed to annoy the player, if you don't like it just don't play it. 

There is definitely an element of needing to improve as a player, I'm nowhere near good enough to do no-save runs or challenge the hardest wads out there. But I respectfully disagree about that map. The pillars you need to jump between are placed in such a way that you can't simply run across them, there are always one or two pillars offset to the side so you'll fall if you need to move quickly. Bear in mind you are being attacked by distant Pain Elementals while having to do this, which in itself could be considered a troll move.

You could argue "what's the point in having pillars if they don't present a challenge", but I would also argue "what's the point in having pillars full stop, this isn't Crash Bandicoot".

With respect to the opinions of @roadworx and @Arbys550, there's no way you can convince me map 5 of Sunder isn't designed to troll the player, it's a bloody nightmare =D

Yeah I also thought Metal was Plutonia, it plays exactly like a Plutonia map.

@garudave, Alien Vendetta plays much better (IMO) than either Hell Revealed, as the emphasis is generally on exploration and adventure, whereas every HR map from 12 onwards and every single HR2 map are actively trying to kill you at all times. It seems that AV started out as a tribute to the first HR but the difficulty was toned down when they realised the project was taking on a life of its own. Still, both HRs are worth playing as some of the maps are amazing. HR2 is much more dickish than the first game, but most HR2 maps are somehow easier to beat from a pistol start.

13 hours ago, Murdoch said:

6. Doom 64: Some creative architecture and good atmosphere ruined by sluggish gameplay and all too frequently dickish map design. Have tried to finish it twice over the years and got too pissed off with it both times to bother going beyond about the midway point.

That's my problem with Doom 64 in a nutshell. They took the fiendishly quick and clever map designs used by id Software and engineered all the fun out of them. It keeps repeating the same tricks even more than Plutonia. Oh, I wonder if a ton of monsters are going to spawn in when I stand here or press this.

Also, D64 is the first heavily scripted Doom, so you lose the emergent gameplay of the original and you also lose replay value.

5 hours ago, SiMpLeToNiUm said:

A "choose your path" style room is probably one of the most familiar to the greatest number of people and thus probably comes through in lots of new mappers' creations (which is usually where I've seen this particular trend). Sortof an "is what it is" sorta thing. Neither bad nor particularly good, only just is.

 

I'd be potentially grasping at straws here, but perhaps it's a symptom of the "symmetry sickness" that also affects the same population of people. A room full of doors (especially if they're centered on the walls of a regular, symmetrical shape) is virtually the same conceptually as making your maps symmetrical. Symmetry isn't bad, but it's known and comfortable. Same concept.

I love the phrase "symmetry sickness". Yeah it is something that has always bugged me about Doom, it's not something that seems to occur in the original games. At least not as much as it does in the modern game. There was no John Romero rule for copying and pasting fights throughout the map.

1 hour ago, Melter said:

 

You hate Bobby Prince music, but your favourite Soundtrack is Alien Vendetta? There's a thin line between love and hate.

I should have clarified Bobby Prince's Doom and Doom 2 soundtrack.