Grazza

I've watched the whole pack again - no problems watching any of them with Prboom-plus. BTW, I notice that there is a spechits overflow in a few of the map01 demos, but it seems benign (no desyncs). I didn't spot anything in the text that I'd call an error. A few small points though:A link for Doom2.exe 1.91 would be useful: http://www.doom2.net/doom2/doomp191/. I believe Chocolate-Doom can play back demos with -longtics too. Boom demos should play back with every version of Prboom (not just newer ones), starting with Prboom 2.02.Oh, and in the text for my map17 Tyson, the word "Max" in the last sentence should be replaced with "Tyson".

I'm not sure how you're measuring "pace" here, but the Doom marine can run a lot faster than the Quake guy, even with his bunny hopping.

A nice simple way: make a dehacked file that sets your initial health to 30%:Patch File for DeHackEd v3.0 # Note: Use the pound sign ('#') to start comment lines. Doom version = 19 Patch format = 6 Misc 0 Initial Health = 30(Copy and paste this into Notepad, and save with the filename 30health.deh) Then play Memento Mori and warp to map13. Oddly enough, I found that when I set the starting health to less than 25, there was no ouch face. Ling: Wasn't it you who originally pointed out that with the buggy behaviour you needed to be hurt and simultaneously gain more than 20% health? Here is a wad that provides an opportunity early on to get a bloodied ouch face via the buggy behaviour.

I don't recall having any egg-type demos, or amusing failures. I was really hoping for one where I pressed the map10 exit switch with 0% health, but it just didn't happen. BTW, I made a small edit in my text for the pack: replacing "Max" with "Tyson" in the last sentence of the map17 Tyson text. You're right that there are gaps in the UV and NM tables for map17. I didn't feel like recording demos that would have been 100% identical to the map10 stuff. Given that it was just there as an alternative version of the map, I felt it more interesting to record only those categories where the change to the map made an actual difference.

I found it sufficient to crouch and walk - no need for grenades to distract it then. I presume DarkJedi188's problem wasn't so much getting killed by the tentacles, as failing to find the way to kill them in the blast pit. It must be said that the procedure to enable the rocket to fire was quite complex, though personally I found it the best and most memorable part of the whole game - and perhaps any game. DarkJedi188: If you want the details, then there are some good walkthroughs available online.

I've just tested the whole of the original Eternal demo pack with this new version (the "warp directly to the next stats screen" feature made it fairly quick and simple to test nearly two day's worth of demos). There are three maps where spechits overruns occurred (including et31, as mentioned earlier): et12: LinesID: 1350, 1355, 1356, 15, 1349, 16, 1348, 1362, 1361. et25: LinesID: 638, 1910, 1911, 1914, 1915, 1916, 1917, 1919, 1920. et31: LinesID: 2921, 2922, 2923, 2924, 2933, 2936, 2942, 2943, 2965. et122614.lmp plays back OK with prboom-plus both when it attempts to emulate the overrun, and when it does not. The et25 demos (et252031.lmp and beginend.lmp) desync near the start, but they also do so with Doom2.exe (possibly they were recorded with a different version of the wad or exe), so it is difficult to say for sure if it is being emulated correctly in this case. The desyncs look the same though. Edit: Found another possible overrun in Memento Mori: mm28: LinesID: 2022, 2023, 2025, 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020. This one seems benign, and of the demos I tested, only occurs in 30mm8356. It doesn't cause a desync there though, whether an attempt is made to emulate it or not.

I've done some basic testing of the new version, and the four features/changes/fixes listed all work as intended for me without any obvious side-effects (though I never experienced the third issue listed, so I can't necessarily test that). A nice early Xmas present!

This post has details and a link. Let me know if I have neglected to give comments for any of mine, or made any other foul-ups. I think I caught them all, but didn't check too scrupulously. BTW, I think Donce's NMs on maps 02 and 10 should be included in the pack, as interesting "alternative route" demos.

Define "overrated". It strikes me as not a very useful term. It generally seems to come down to "I liked this less than I believe most other people did". Or that someone earnestly believes that the people who like something are objectively wrong to do so.

I wouldn't call a 30-minute run through Doom2 a walkthrough, but what you're looking for are probably the full-game speedrun demos from compet-n: 30uv2609 - UV Speed by Radek Pecka 30nm2956 - NM Speed by Drew DeVore More here.

He might have meant the camera mode feature during playback, rather than the TAS re-record feature - both are activated using the ALT key by default. Nice. :) It would be convenient if this were a cfg option too.

General Comments ---------------- Just two sectors? Sounds ridiculous, even to those who were astounded by what could be done with just ten sectors some years back. However, these maps are no joke: a great deal of creativity was displayed to make these maps visually interesting and offering at least some gameplay. In most cases, it isn't obvious that there are just two sectors until you look at the map in an editor. I don't believe making the maps demo-friendly was a priority for most of the mappers, but they largely succeeded in any case. There is a good deal of replayability value, and in many cases several categories are both fun and very different from one another. As for my favourite maps, I'd go for 10/17 and perhaps 08. 05 is surprisingly interesting despite its simplicity (or you might say ugliness), and 04 has slightly more hidden depths than is immediately apparent too. 03 and 06 are good maps, but rather too linear to appeal so much from a recording perspective. Thanks to everyone else who contributed to the pack - it was fun. I won't pick out any individual demos from the pack, but Donce's NMs, Anima's -fasts, Gusta's Tysons and Kristian's Speeds are all well worth a close look. All my demos were recorded with glboom-plus -complevel 1. They all play back with Doom2.exe and Chocolate-Doom too, but with some serious visual/performance glitches. UV Max Map10 - 0:50 (Grazza) --------------------- Conceptually, this was one of the most interesting of my 2s demos, and I tried quite a few different routes. This map is almost identical to map17, but lacks the invulnerability sphere. That forces a rather different Max route. You can still use the crusher trick, but only to take the last bits of health off the weaker (or weakened) monsters. This is because you're losing health at the same time, and the most you can have at that point is 100 + green armour. The PE is the monster most likely to survive unless you make sure it is dead at the start. A possible route improvement is to shoot the barrels from the other side of the room (from the corridor that has the two demons in it). I didn't get that to work, and you'd need a fair amount of health in that case too (as you're relying on the crusher to kill a chaingunner, who has 70 health). Overall, I'd have to call this a luckfest. You just have to run your route and press the exit switch when the crusher has taken 30-40 off your health and hope 100% kills pops up on-screen. Map17 - 0:32 (Grazza) --------------------- This is a version of map10 with an invulnerability sphere (apparently added in to make the map playable...). I use it to stay alive while everything is killed by the level-wide crusher. UV Speed Map02 - 0:09 (Grazza) --------------------- A 2-sectors trick: a monster blocks one of the doors, so they are all blocked (being the same sector). That means the exit remains open, and with some luck I get to it in time. Map10 - 0:21 (Grazza) --------------------- One of the best and most interesting maps in the wad, IMO - there are surprisingly many route options. The yellow key grab saves some time, and triggering the crusher means I don't need the blue key. I save the BFG shot for the spider, so that it dies in time for me to reach the exit. A map17 UV Speed would be almost identical to this, but I didn't bother recording one. Map12 - 0:08 (Grazza) --------------------- This was really a pacifist, but it's not clear if firing a weapon would make it any faster. It might just wake up stuff that then gets in the way. Map15 - 0:09 (Grazza) --------------------- This was really a pacifist, but no one seemed to want to improve upon it. Map16 - 0:09 (Grazza) --------------------- Just an initial run showing the strafe-50 jump. See the NM for evidence that it could be done a lot faster. :) NM Map02 - 0:22 (Grazza) --------------------- Just a first NM exit with the same shortcut idea as for UV Speed. The survival chances here are somewhat reduced, and the monsters' tendency to fire rather than walk might mean they're a bit less likely to block the doors, but in principle it should go as fast as UV. The mechanism in this demo is a bit different (and NM-specific), as it's the door to the exit room that is blocked, and by a respawned sergeant. Map10 - 0:20 (Grazza) --------------------- Pretty much the same as UV Speed. The extra ammo means I have two BFG shots, which makes it a bit easier than UV in fact. UV Pacifist Map07 - 0:29 (Grazza) --------------------- Just to show how this map can be done pacifist-style. I use the demons in p3m1 fashion, though it's rather easier to arrange here. With a bit more luck you could get a cleaner passage, but no one seemed inclined to try. Map08 - 0:22 (Grazza) --------------------- Staying quiet has its advantages here. Not a very hard-worked demo, but I played until I had something that wasn't too ugly. Obviously, this was recorded before Kristian discovered his trick shortcut. Map09 - 0:16 (Grazza) --------------------- Another pacifist just for the sake of showing how it can be done. Annoyingly, this was my first recording attempt, and I was a bit hazy about the start of the map, and continued just for practice. Needless to say, this was the one time when my luck was in and everything went fairly well. Getting through that door can be a real pain. Map12 - 0:08 (Grazza) --------------------- Just your standard "run at the monsters and they'll let you through" type of pacifist run. I'm both surprised and pleased with the time, and it's probably my cleanest run in this pack. Map15 - 0:09 (Grazza) --------------------- I believe the timing of the wake-up shot is important here, but it's mostly a question of luck, of course. UV Tyson Map10 - 4:31 (Grazza) --------------------- Tablefiller. I could find no tricks to speed this up (other than being better with the chainsaw...), because if you start the crusher, you inevitably run out of health before the mastermind does. So that just leaves you having to saw its leg off. :/ The megasphere grab is useful - sawing the rev and archie might be a bit awkward otherwise. Map17 - 0:47 (Grazza) --------------------- Like the Max, but using only the pistol, so the spider takes longer to go down. I'm fairly happy with the time (though not the decimals: 0:47.09). The presence of the invulnerability sphere makes a big difference compared to the map10 Tyson, as you can activate the crusher.

You need to use tags, so the engine knows which sector(s) the action applies to. http://doom.wikicities.com/wiki/Tag

Yeah, it's not wow without the illusio-pit. Jimi should amend that and reupload. How does it compare to my attempt?

Another map with a possible spechits overrun: Eternal map31: The demo I was testing (et312225.lmp - it is in here) does desync with 2.2.6.23. Interestingly though, it plays back OK using one of the 2.2.6.22 test versions. I have put a copy of this version here. This version has no specific knowledge of this map, and the overrun occurs within the first minute, but it correctly plays back a 22-minute demo on a highly complex map. Are there any spechits overrun demos that are known to fail with this version? BTW, the demo is well worth watching in its own right (it's a very creative map). As far as I know, this test version is the only exe that will play this demo, apart from doom2.exe itself.

A couple of things:BrDoom isn't the first wad from Brazil. Congestion 1024 requires a Boom-compatible port.

I don't know of any instances of a spechits overrun leading to effects such as that - the effects are normally a lot less obvious. If you have any demos of the type you describe, you could run them through Prboom 2.2.6.23, and see if it comes up with the spechits overrun message. I've tested Ledmeister's weird blackbug and manorbug demos, and they are not due to this effect (no spechits overrun message, at any rate). This post sheds light on what causes that.

A "decapitation", i.e. Doomworld, Newdoom and the idgames archive all going down around the same time (for technical reasons, rather than just a general lack of interest), would I imagine prove fatal for the English-language online Doom community. As long as one of the three survives, there would remain a focus around which to maintain some cohesion until things were rebuilt in some form. True, though the importance of this user-friendly interface should not be underestimated.

It reports the lines responsible when an overrun occurs; it doesn't detect potential problems in advance. Andrey did mention that he planned to implement a feature of that type, though it sounds like it is a little more complex to provide the engine with the "magic number" that it requires. I agree that this feature together with an internal list sounds like the best fix we're likely to get, barring some breakthrough in emulating the general case. This would be map-specific info, rather than demo-specific. Once it is in the exe or the command-line, other demos recorded or played back on the map in question should be OK. It's not necessarily a case of them "screwing up" either - STRAIN map07 is a map where the overrun is necessary for the map to work (you can't exit without it), and in other cases it normally manifests itself as just a small change in behaviour due to the lost information - you don't start noclipping through walls or whatever.

Another map where you can get a spechits overrun is Memento Mori map08. Prboom 2.2.6.23 provided the following information: However, it didn't cause a desync in the demo that I was watching (mm08-233). I haven't checked it with other demos on this map (though I don't recall any problems in the past with mm08 demos either - maybe this one is largely benign for some reason).

You might want to read this thread.

Be thankful that's all it reminds you of.

You can save some time there with a little switch trick: the switch near the chaingun can be pressed before it has risen. This means you don't have to do so much running backwards and forwards, and you don't need to press the switch in the blue key room at all. BTW, in map16, I notice that the bars around the exit have 32-unit gaps between them. I've had no luck at all trying to glide between them though. The same goes for map15.

Given that it is pretty much the first thing ported to any new platform, that seems a safe bet.

It crashes Prboom 2.02 (and therefore Boom 2.02 as well, I imagine). As discussed earlier, not "getting all hissy about this" was an MBF feature. Oddly, I notice that Doom2.exe will start the map up OK though. But clearly it isn't a fully Boom-compatible map as it stands. I agree with Belial too: no matter where this was intended to go in a megawad, it should be at least tiny bit more comfortably playable from a pistol start.