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Doom64hunter

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  1. Doom64hunter

    Mapping - how much of it is talent?

    Two reasons why I dislike the notion of there being no talent: It devalues the skill itself by making it sound like there's nothing special to it. If all it took was just training to make a map that's truly special to people, then it sounds like one could just train a generative AI to achieve the same output. But I think AI art has already shown how that's not really the case. You can learn how to do it, you can go through the motions of doing it, but unless you have that special wiring that makes you "get" it, chances are that the result won't really stand out. I think the notion often comes from people who have the talent, and are unable to recognize that they do. Of course from your position, it seems like anyone can get just as good, but I think it's a bit like telling a person in a wheelchair that anyone can get good at running, or telling someone with ADHD that they just need to concentrate and stop being lazy. Sometimes, training and trying to acquire a skill just doesn't work out, and there's no use in trying harder and harder, or concluding that you "didn't try hard enough". I think in some cases, acceptance that something won't work out because of it "not being your thing" is the better approach. It allows you to refocus on a different topic that you may have the predisposition for.
  2. Doom64hunter

    Mapping - how much of it is talent?

    There are plenty of people who have put in countless hours of work into trying to get better at something, and who have failed. The notion that "anyone can be good at anything" needs to die out.
  3. Doom64hunter

    Doom pre-MUS original source MIDI files

    00 Meta 6: <Copyright, 1993, Robert C. Prince, III> 00 Meta 6: <All Rights Reserved> 01 Meta 3: <Synth Drum Low > 02 Meta 3: <Ahs > 03 Meta 3: <Ah Volume > 04 Meta 3: <Ahs > 05 Meta 3: <Ah Volume > 06 Meta 3: <Ahs > 07 Meta 3: <Ah Volume > 08 Meta 3: <Synth Drum High > 09 Meta 3: <Lead Guitar > 10 Meta 3: <Lead Guitar PB > 11 Meta 3: <Lead Guitar Mod. > 12 Meta 3: <Tremolo Strings > 13 Meta 3: <Trem Strings Volume > 14 Meta 3: <Kick Drum 1 C3 36> 15 Meta 3: <Snare Drum 2 E3 40> 16 Meta 3: <Closed Hihat F#3 42> 17 Meta 3: <Open Hihat A#3 46> 18 Meta 3: <Chinese Cymbal E4 52> 19 Meta 3: <Mute Triangle G#6 80> 20 Meta 3: <Open Triangle A6 81> 21 Meta 3: <E1M8> 22 Meta 3: <Copyright 1993, Robert C. Prince, III> And indeed he did.
  4. Doom64hunter

    Doom pre-MUS original source MIDI files

    Bumping this thread with the midis that were found together with the Doom Mac Source Code: MacSource_Midis.zip Unlike the OS/2 midis, the ones found in this package actually predate the release of Doom 2, with timestamps ranging from August 18th to August 29th 1994. Other interesting points to note about these files: These midis are an exact match for the ones included with Doom95 (E2M6.MID and DEAD.MID respectively) All Doom 1 midis differ from the OS/2 ones, at least in terms of metadata. Most of the Doom 2 midis match the ones found in the OS/2 package in terms of content and metadata. ULTIMA.MID and M_READ.MID, which were missing from the OS/2 package, are included here, and retain their original metadata. There are 4 additional midi files named BETWE2.MID, COUNTDN.MID, DDTBLUES.MID and DOOM3.MID, which are not present in the final release of Doom 2. DDTBLUES.MID in particular differs from DDTBLU.MID and DDTBL2.MID, and contains the both the Kalimba and the Splash Cymbal that are exclusive to the other two files respectively. 4 files which are present in Doom 2 are missing: COUNT2.MID, MESSG2.MID, ROMER2.MID, THEDA3.MID Given that we know now that 4 midis found in Doom 2 are missing from the folder, 4 midis found in the folder are not found in Doom 2, and the timestamps indicate that these were created before Doom 2 was released, this gives strong reason to believe that there was a last minute music change before the game was released. In particular, it appears that MAP24 (THEDA3.MID), MAP26 (MESSG2.MID) and MAP27 (ROMER2.MID) had a different song assigned to them in August (or a short time before). This may also have been the case for MAP21 (COUNT2.MID), but what's more likely there is that COUNTDN.MID was simply renamed to COUNT2.MID. (Also, while these 4 extra midis could be found in the released Mac port (converted to Quicktime format), it also contained all other Doom 2 midis as well, including the ones missing from this folder. So prior to the release of this CD, it wasn't possible to determine that this was indeed a music change, and moreover, which maps had their music replaced.)
  5. Doom64hunter

    Is this Mac/PC Doom source code on ebay legit?

    What's actually funny about this, is that these filenames were actually out in the open, and present in the released Macintosh port. So uhhh, guess I'm 20 years late on this discovery.
  6. Doom64hunter

    Doom Year Zero coming from Bethesda

    Even without Covid, Starfield in 2021 seems way too early. Not to mention TES VI in 2024.
  7. Doom64hunter

    Is this Mac/PC Doom source code on ebay legit?

    All Doom 1 level midis differ from the OS/2 ones. For each of them, the title was replaced by "ExMy", x y being the episode and level slot. Possibly there are other differences as well. Bunny.mid is also different, though the title is the same.
  8. Doom64hunter

    Is this Mac/PC Doom source code on ebay legit?

    Does anyone know a way to play back the ".mid!" files found in several of the folders? I believe these might be some ancient Quicktime music format used on Mac. There may be some interesting stuff there, for example, DEAD.MID and DEAD2.MID, while identical in their original format, have different filesizes in the ".mid!" conversion.
  9. Doom64hunter

    Is this Mac/PC Doom source code on ebay legit?

    DDTBLUES.mid is interesting, it contains both the Kalimba from DDTBLU.mid, as well as the Splash Cymbal from DDTBL2.MID and DDTBL3.mid. So in other words, it's a third version of that song, possibly the original that the other 2 were derived from. Also, this contains the original midis + metadata to READ_M.mid and ULTIMA.mid, which were missing from the OS/2 files. ULTIMA.MID READ_M.MID
  10. Doom64hunter

    Is this Mac/PC Doom source code on ebay legit?

    There's something interesting to be gathered from the file listing of the midis: Notice how the following filenames aren't actually present in Doom 2, according to the Doom Wiki: (https://doomwiki.org/wiki/Doom_II_music) While at the same time, the following filenames are missing from the listing, which are present in Doom 2: Hypothesis: MAP24 (THEDA3.MID), MAP26 (MESSG2.MID) and MAP27 (ROMER2.MID) had a music swap at the last second. And as for MAP21 (COUNT2.MID), I'm guessing the music file was simply renamed from COUNTDN.MID to COUNT2.MID.
  11. Before anyone tries to download that -- I just managed to find a torrent mirror of this archive, and the filename in question is not listed within. So unless someone happened to have downloaded "The Imp's Song" in the early 2000s, it seems that the extended version will remain lost media. Edit: I somehow get the feeling that Nagy's response here can't really be trusted. According to him, he was completely oblivious of the shorter version of the song for over 20 years, which is already pretty hard to believe -- since it also implies he never played the game, ever. Somehow, I wouldn't put it past him to not even have opened the Youtube link you sent him in your response. Perhaps he just assumed that it was the short version again -- especially since he then proceeds to talk about "the 2 versions" instead of 3, like it would have to be the case if his copy of the song was even longer than the one in the "Doom Music" album.
  12. Is it maybe contained within this enormous archive? https://archive.org/details/mp3com1/ https://archive.org/details/mp3com2 Unfortunately, it is prohibitively large, 800 GB in a single tar file... It's hard to imagine that an mp3 created by Bobby somehow became lost media, despite having been uploaded to the web :/ Ah, that explains the weird cuts at least -- but it doesn't really explain why other tracks are extended.
  13. Surprisingly, there are a lot more anomalies on this CD and the "Doom Music" album, which have not actually been documented anywhere yet. Most importantly, "Donna to the Rescue" isn't the only extended track. Let's go through them all in detail (except for the Live recordings, since they aren't really relevant for this): "The Healer Stalks" is much shorter than usual (3:17 instead of 4:48). For some reason, the song starts at point 1:44 of the midi version on this CD. The small section of the loop you hear at the end on the CD version then also goes right back to 1:44 of the midi. "Intermission from Doom" is significantly sped up compared to the version heard in the game. From what I can tell, it appears to be playing at roughly 120% of the speed of the game's midi. "On the Hunt" appears to be the same as the version in-game. "Demons from Adrian's Pen" is probably the most baffling one. Just like "Donna to the Rescue", this one is also extended, but it's not immediately obvious: Namely, the section from 1:42 to 2:30 on the CD version is completely missing from the midi. It seems like the game midi version jumps directly from the section ending at 1:42 to the section starting at 2:30 on the CD. There's also a weird sound error at the very end, where the track doesn't loop properly. This is present in both the Doom Music album, and the "Music from Doom Volume One" version. Maybe an error in the midi file the recording was sourced from? "Suspense" appears to be identical to the game's version. "Running from Evil" also appears to be the same. "Waiting for Romero to Play" on the CD version is significantly shorter. It is missing the first 9 seconds of intro, as well as the last section spanning approximately 1 minute and 18 seconds. "Into Sandy's City" suffers from an error in the loop at the end of the track, much like "Demons from Adrian's Pen". Otherwise, it appears to be identical. "Shawn's got the Shotgun" appears to have an instrument missing in the section between 1:40 and 2:14, one which is very audible in the game midi (for comparison: https://youtu.be/9E7MPl4G2Qc?t=96). I'm not good at identifying different types of MIDI instruments, so if anyone could assist with this, that would be great. (On review, it being inaudible may also just be a side effect of the soundfont used) "Sinister" doesn't appear to have any differences. "End of Doom" is missing the intro, but otherwise appears to be the same. "The Demon's Dead" is much shorter on the CD version, 3:29 instead of the game's 4:23. The intro is there, but on the CD version, the song immediately skips to the second section of the game version that normally starts at 1:06. The rest appears to be the same however. "Demons on the Prey" appears to be the same. "Doom" has the first 6 seconds of intro from the midi cut away on the CD version, but is otherwise the same. "Donna to the Rescue" is extended with 2 extra sections at the start, as already described in the OP. The "Doom Music" album includes 5 additional tracks which are not on the above CD. It can be found here: https://archive.org/details/doom-music "At Doom's Gate": includes several sounds from the game, interspersed through the track. The music is otherwise the same as the game midi version, except the ending, which was most likely created for the album. This ending can also be heard in the live recording. However, there's still a minor mystery in this track. The sound at 0:10 appears to be a variation of the plasma firing sound which appears nowhere in the game. The actual plasma gun firing sound can be heard at 1:40 and is clearly audible, so this has to be a distinct sound effect. "Kitchen Ace (and taking names)": This is the third extended track on the album. Right off the bat, the intro which in the midi is normally 20 seconds long, lasts for only 10 seconds on the CD version, and the drum transition to the next section is missing completely. The section on the CD from 0:10 to 1:14, and on the midi from 0:21 to 1:24 are then identical. The intro to the second section following this is again cut short. Instead of lasting 22 seconds (1:24-1:46) like on the midi, it is again half as long on the CD (1:10-1:24), but this time includes the same drum transition as on the midi. The rest of the second section from 1:25 to 2:28 matches the remainder of the midi. The rest of the CD track that follows is a third section of the song that is not heard on the midi version. Again, the intro is short, just like the preceding 2 sections. Structurally, this third section matches the second section, but includes an additional instrument. Sadly, it is quite hard to make out what instrument it is. In this sense, this song seems to originally have been quite similar to "I Sawed the Demons", where each repeat of the loop adds additional instruments, with the third repeat of "Kitchen Ace" having been cut from the game. "Opening to Hell": Appears to be the same as the game version. "They're going to get you": Also appears to be the same as the game version. "Dark Halls": Sadly, also no differences in this one. I didn't compare the recordings of the shared tracks between the two albums, but they are most likely the same between them. In summary: "Donna to the Rescue", "Kitchen Ace" as well as "Demons from Adrian's Pen" have extended versions in the Doom Music album. As far as I can see, the other two have not been documented yet on the Doom Wiki, so it appears that these extended tracks have been hiding under our noses all this time. Moreover, the strange, seemingly arbitrary changes to many of the other tracks gives further reason to believe that these recordings may have been sourced from beta/in-development versions of the respective midis, rather than the final versions used in the game. Edit: The intermission track being significantly faster could also be because of its inspiration, Metallica - Fight Fire with Fire, which has a very similar pace.
  14. It's in one of the unreleased beta archives that were found when Frederik Schreiber acquired 3DRealms. A number of people have since then gained access to the builds, in particular the people that prepared the Shadow Warrior betas for release, and some details, including sprites and some videos of gameplay, have come out over the years. The midi file for the old "In Hiding" is present in one of those archives -- and apparently, the timestamps indicate that the extended version you hear on Bobby's Soundcloud came first, and was later cut down for the final. A similar situation could be the case for "Donna to the Rescue", in that the extended version is the original. Yes, I clearly remember this as well. It's another one of those mysteries about this track that have kept me wondering... Of course, could also be the case that that guy was just lying. I wish we could get a hold of Bobby somehow to ask him whether there was any truth to that claim. Hah, absolutely, and it makes me wonder how a hypothetical fifth and sixth section would sound.
  15. Doom64hunter

    Known lost WADs of our history?

    Possibly this was some old version of "Aeons of Death" from back in the day. I'm not sure whether it included the full roster, but it definitely included some of them, along with defined behavior -- the Rottweiler, Zombie, Death Knight and Shambler at least. I may even have this build on my old hard drives somewhere -- will edit this post if I find it.
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