pulkmees

You're fighting demons in hell/earth/whatever. It's pretty damn specific to that. All that Sim City 2000 nonsense always takes me out of it. Definitely dark and eerie. If the map is fast paced, make it fast paced. If you intention is creepy, make the music creepy. If you intend to to show danger....you know already. Experiment until it fits. Not going to be easy though. There is a reason the Ashes 2063 soundtrack is that good. It fits.

Same issue as Nickxcom. Same Missing rotations error. Would like to know what version of Chocolate Doom I'm suppose to be using just to confirm I'm doing eveything right. That's why a readme would be nice. Got it to work with PRBoom+ and LZDoom, but that aint what this is about. Got to see it at least. Had some fun. Grainy doom with brutal animations and reloading.

This needs a readme file for people to make it work. Using ZDL launcher with Choco doom. Can't get it to work.

A tie between Dead Simple and The Inmost Dens. Maybe even Suburbs. Played Doom 2 from pistol start recently and those were the most tolerable.

Map 10. The most right teleport that leads to the rooms with elevators. Somehow the very first elevator(the room with the hell knight - UV) can lower further after you go back there. Anyway one of the linedefs of that room has a missing texture. Checked the editor too.

Playing on UV pistol start. Ran out of ammo in E1M8 when dealing with the last wave of enemies. I know I could have run to the exit, but I was going for 100%. Even used infighting in the previous wave. Adding a backpack would help or just more rockets. The whole map is also a major step up from the previous maps. Although I can forgive that since it's the last map of the episode. Being stuck under cacos is not fun though.

Both. If I think ONLY what I want to play no one would play that. I don't think that highly of anything I could do or have done. Some smoothing out is necessary. You need both sides.

Should of added in well designed too, but that's intertwined with difficulty. Also I was exaggerating. If the 12 people are close to you, obviously it matters more to you. 12 months of work for 12 randoms though ? Now I'm not saying the worth comes from more people playing your wad. If it's good it's good because of your effort into making it good. Do you want your effort to be played by 12 or 1200 people ? Is all that time worth it for your ideas to reach a few random people ? Look it seems most of this comes down to - everyone does whatever they want in their own bubble.(Like I said in my first reply). There's no incentive to take advice from anyone it seems. Which means chaos rules. Which means people get pissed off in every new wad because the rules have changed.(unless specified in the txt file). I'd rather have less frustration than more, but yeah no incentive for people to change their ways.

How do other games do it then ? You can't fathom playing as someone with lesser skill ? Missing more shots, not figuring out puzzles as fast, not knowing patterns, getting lost ? It's subjective, but not highly. Companies do it with loads of playtesters. We do it with less or by ourselves. Means we have to make more of an effort. How is it wasted time if more people play it? That's what it gives you. For me it's a waste if only 12 people end up playing it. Gorgeous well textured maps for 12 people. No, that's not what I said or meant. I didn't mean handholding. I specifically described fights or difficulties that are not fun for newcomers. Also now we are apparently in the giving examples stage of this argument. I thought we were generalizing as this is a general issue imo. Everyone does their own thing in their own wad, but after 11 wads the same issue keeps popping up.(And any wads worth playing happen to be hard as well). This should be taken into account as new mappers make maps. I'm saying this as advice. How is this unreasonable ? Nothing has ever pissed you off in any game or wad that was cheap or luck based ? Well yeah if the whole point of the wad is that, then yeah, no reason to cater to them indeed. But then that's why I'm asking if that effort is worth it for ONLY that niche audience ? Why ? Enough time has passed for some guidelines and standards to emerge. Means by this point when people make maps they should take it into consideration. If everyone has a fuck you attitude all the time, new people won't play anything new any more. I mean people have and are still coming here, but I think for other reasons. Again I'm not saying make a total crowdpleaser. You don't NEED to do anything, I'm saying it as advice. But I do mean that having it would make it worth the effort.

What's wrong with having the option ? Games do this. Dying over and over again in Super Meat Boy and Hotline Miami might be fun, but those games are built around that mechanic TO make it fun. And I'm being honest here. I'm specifically talking about fights(also difficulties) involving either a combination of too much luck, skill ONLY a 20 year doom veteran would have and otherwise having VERY few ways to beat it. There needs to be SOME effort put into smoothing out the difficulty for newcomers. How is it entitled to think wads would have this after how long this community has been around ? I get it if you go screaming at the mapper after ragequitting, that'sa dick move, but otherwise... The more specific the solution is the less people will solve it. Fine if that's the sacrifice you've made, mappers call. Is it worth it to make it only for a select group of people though? All that effort... Yes, this is unpaid work, people do this as a hobby. But if you can add the option and want to do it and have the time to do it then why not. I'm just tired of playing wads where the focus was to make it hard. Gorgeous architecture, vistas, texture use, but too hard. After the 11th one it wears out your patience.

I'm saying have the option. Get good won't get people from outside the community to play your wad if you think only really really really hard difficulty is the only option. That was my point. Get good should be what your wad does anyway during the course of it. But main focus shouldn't be its so hard you'll pull your hair out on the first try. I'm fine with it if you say it in big bold letters, that this will be hard. But then there's also the fact that there are many ways of making it hard. Some ways are just cheap and frustrating as fuck.

All I gather from all of this is that every wad maker does their own thing and everyone, who plays it is does their own thing with it. There are some guidelines of what difficulty should have what, but no one can really enforce any of those. Every wad is a new game. It's Doom, but their version of Doom. Their wad, their rules. Be sure to write down the rules somewhere though to avoid wasting people's time and good mood, that's all you can do really. Now saying that I still have expectations when playing a new wad. 1.I expect the wads difficulty to be consistent through out or at least scaling upwards slowly. Meaning it doesn't go fucking crazy after map 20 because you liked Scythe so much. If you mention it in big bold letters its fine, but otherwise it pisses people off. Hard to also do when you have many different authors, but then again not every megawad has to be 32-35 maps long. Way too much work for people doing it on their free time. 2.There is one difficulty that is the sweetspot. It means someone, who plays your map for the first time doesn't have to savescum through it, but it's still challenging for the average fps player. Otherwise you're making this for 12 people. What's the point? Doesn't have to be a total crowd pleaser, but I'm tired of seeing wads so hard only a coked up Gollum could beat it.

That was the only secret I didn't find by myself since I couldn't think to go through a double sided wall there. And yeah the zombieman is probably some inside joke for Romero since there are Star Wars and Jedi Academy related secrets/parts in the 2016 maps he made.

Yeah, but way the fights start you don't really have a lot of room to maneuver between them, so the first instinct is to shoot, which messes up the infighting. You only know to do that when you've died, but I don't like that you have to die to learn that. But even without the infighting I think there's enough ammo anyway, you just got to punch some of the weaker enemies with berzerk once a while.

In the behind the scenes footage Romero has the crushers still set on fast damage, which would have been more manageable. I wonder if that was before or after the feedback. Or maybe the feedback didn't effect that choice at all.

You must have been extra patient in E5M4 then. Or gotten lucky with rng. Or somehow you knew exactly what to expect before something surprising happened. Did you also 100% it or was it more a passthrough run?

E5M4 and onwards gets tough on UV, that's for sure. EDIT: Might have been a mistake to do only pistol starts as well.

Well, all these delays ain't gonna be good for expectations, that's for sure. The 2016 maps at least came out of of the blue. No one had time to conjure up crazy shit in their heads. This time though...and some people paid for it too.

Chillax and Counter Attack(even though it looks gorgeous).

Wasn't that like one of the points Doom tried to make? That everywhere where you can see you CAN go. I mean if it's obvious that it's outside the map then go for it, but otherwise I feel this leads to a lot of time thinking of ways to create invisible walls, weird barriers etc.

Imps not dying to 1 shotgun blast or even 2. Depending on how many Lost Souls I have to fight, then...Lost Souls. Pinkies not dying to a SSG blast right when you have other pinkies around you munching you. Cacodemons managing to do that 2 quick plasma/fireball/whatever attack right when you are close to them and switching weapons.

I'm pretty sure a lot of people just posted to the response of "doesn't hold up" no more. But then you go to say that it does hold up in the paragraphs. That isn't even the main point of your argument. I guess it works to get people reading it, cause I did, but damn it took a lot text to get to it. Don't have a title like that if you don't even think that yourself. BUT..do use it if you want to get people interested I guess. :) The point from what I gathered is that Doom is not scary any more and lost it's immersion. Enemies are reduced to mechanics. And that people should talk about that and/or that people should not pretend it wasn't scary in the first place. And that people haven't analyzed Doom 3 properly and that you actually kind of like Doom 3(even though you say you don't prefer it over Doom 1 and Doom 2, which is a...contradiction. In response to the "people should talk about it not being scary any more" argument. Why ? We can't go back in time. People have made wads, gameplay trends have changed, people are better at the game. If you're new and young and getting into the game, then it probably still is scary. Granted not for the realism reasons as you can play games that actually scare you now(not counting only jumpscares, but also atmosphere). If it scares you because you actually think that that pixel'y mess on your screen is actual blood guts, then I don't know what to tell you... . If people do pretend that it wasn't scary, then so what ? Why do you care ? Who are these dumdums, who pretend it wasn't scary/immersive/[adjective] ? What do you base this on ? I remember a thread being here, where people talked about the reason why Doom 1&2 were scary some time ago. So people did talk about it, but I don't remember anyone pretending it was never scary/immersive. I feel like the argument is always about people defining scariness in different ways. I think your point should actually be guided towards mapmakers. I see a lot of maps made for the purpose of being a...map. It's taking the story is not important aspect a bit too far. What is the fun in completing your map if the only reason is just to be completed. Just kill all enemies, complete the gameplay. Aaaand repeat 31 times. It's too mechanical. You need some sort of nugget of...oo something happened here before I came in here. Doom 1 still has that, although playing it again and again has obviously lost some of it's magic. Depends how much you have replayed it obviously There are a lot of wads to play if you've exhausted the Iwads though. You seem to like Doom 3 and/or dislike people not analyzing it properly. Again, I feel like you're talking to dumdums and giving them too much credit. Also check your thread titles. I myself don't think there's much to be said about Doom 3. I have read and watched videos about it. They went with the scary aspect full on. But tempo was slower and there were less enemies. Getting hit kicked your view. And it all took place in very similar looking space/industrial hallways. Now that last part would have been ok in Doom 1 and 2, but this game was made in a world where everyone had already played Doom 1 and Doom 2 and a bunch of other cool games. AAAand Half-Life 2 came out the same time. In the end the scary aspect is the only thing still kind of going for it. It's harder to make maps for it. I don't know what else to say about it. What do you see it having that was so fun ?

Well yeah, that's what I mean it's random if you aren't a robot, which I assume most...people aren't. I should also say I was thinking of revenants in close quarters and firing at different times for them to get to their max annoyance. The timing of getting that homing missile just when you try to go past a door. I'd definitely rage.

Well their attack is still annoying as it has been since the beginning. Sometimes the rockets home in, sometimes they don't. There's a thread here from 2007 with people discussing it in more detail, but what matters is that in the game it's annoying as fuck to get hit by it. Random is fun the first couple of times, not the next 100 times. I bet speedrunners hate them with a passion. At least I would if a random element was involved.

WTF ? Of course yes. They have experience making levels already. Granted not OG Doom maps, but still, they know a thing or two. No if it's not free. I'd rather play someone's passion project than something they want money for. EDIT: Ah, that was the original question, didn't read properly..