What if...?

NiGHTMARE, you seem to follow Plato's theory of ideals when talking about perfection, pity you aren't as entertaining or provocative as his character Socrates is.

"Fixing" the maps would make them into something else. And are you saying there is a way everyone could agree as in what standards of texture alignment or combination is best? Why is a "perfectly" tidy thing necessarily better than a (randomly) messy one?

I can't know if I'd get tired of playing the original maps only, since there's thousands in addition to them that distract me from doing solely that. I probably wouldn't, albeit maybe I'd play less time. Actually, I wouldn't get bored with the maps unless I reached my maximum potential playing them... that could take years.

What you reply about the BFG is... unreal.

Bugs are fine! DOOM's bugs are perfect.

Note how logic can be useful, but can also lead to ridiculous statements.

A game with a "board" that that changed all the time would be a game? More importantly, a good one? Well, not according to me.

This thread is about DOOM, and if it could have been better had it had features that we know more or less from other games (types of which you mentioned on the poll)... or we are crazy.

You seem to have not realised my entire point...

There is no such thing, and can never be such a thing, as a perfect game, because if it was perfect, everyone would think it was perfect - and as everyone has different ideas of what's perfect (as we've both clearly demonstrated), that would never happen :)

I'm not following Plato's ideals, merely the dictionary definition :) IMHO you're confusing 'perfect' with 'best'.

per·fect adj. Being without defect or blemish: a perfect specimen.

You comment about "fixing" the levels seems a little odd. Are you saying that the Doom E1M1 in v1.9 is in fact no longer Doom E1M1, because it's slightly different to the original version?

My point about the BFG is, that if it were a perfect weapon, it couldn't possibly get annoying in any maps. There would be no such thing as a "BFG ll4m4".

This thread was supposed to be about which, of the various projects ID had considered doing and were rumoured to be doing before they announced Doom, you'd have preffered to see - but I guess that's gone bye the bye :)

deleted :)

deleted :)

Echo...echo......echo............echo.......................

I don't see why everyone has to see things as perfect for them to be perfect... read Plato's Crito, it points out the quite the opposite. Also, I don't see (like orion pointed out) why anyone would want to use that word like that.

The "BFG ll4m4," "BFG whore" or "BFG spammer" tantrums come from people who can't use the BFG or fear to do so for some reason.

You're not contradicting me now about the thread, but what I said was in reference to you starting to compare the game as it came out with infinite possibilites of things that don't exist. I'd rather think the thread is a bit more concrete.

I think what has gone wrong with this poll is that the wording of the answer "None of the above - Doom is best the way it is!" doesn't tally with the question.

In my view, if something was truly perfect, then there would be absolutely nothing for anything to dislike about it, so therefore everyone WOULD think it was perfect.

Yes the vast majority of people could think something was perfect, but if there was even one person who thought it wasn't, it wouldn't be.

But of course such a thing is entirely impossible. Everyone has different likes and dislikes, so if a game did something in one way, it would please some people but not others - AndrewB's feelings on Half-life just go to show this.

Grazza said:

I think what has gone wrong with this poll is that the wording of the answer "None of the above - Doom is best the way it is!" doesn't tally with the question.

Yes, I wanted to change it to "None of the above - they'd all be crap" afterwards, but of course you can't edit polls :(

NiGHTMARE said:

I'm not following Plato's ideals, merely the dictionary definition :) IMHO you're confusing 'perfect' with 'best'.

per·fect adj. Being without defect or blemish: a perfect specimen.

You comment about "fixing" the levels seems a little odd. Are you saying that the Doom E1M1 in v1.9 is in fact no longer Doom E1M1, because it's slightly different to the original version?

I'm not really confusing them, since "perfect" is helpful when stating you mean you think the game should not be changed. Best could very well suit someone saying "it's the best, but let's add all these features to it."

I have nothing against that definition of perfect, but defect or blemish in respect to what in this case. My criterium? Yours? God's? We stated ours (mine is complete and easier to state, since I don't prefer any changes) the other one doesn't matter.

In the case of e1m1, Ultimate DOOM's e1m1 is no longer the e1m1 of DOOM v1.9.

Calling DOOM perfect if you feel it's the best game and you believe there is no need for further development in respect to its functionality makes perfect sense to me.

Calling DOOM perfect if you feel it's the best game and you believe there is no need for further development in respect to its functionality makes perfect sense to me.

Ah, but there's a difference between calling Doom perfect and calling it the perfect game :) You could call any game perfect if you didn't think there was anything wrong with it - for example, going by this definition, Wolfenstein is pretty perfect for what it is IMO (although some things could still have been a bit better), but I don't think it's the perfect game, and I doubt many people would think that it's the perfect game either ;)

I'm afraid I don't consider Doom to be perfect in either sense, but it is approaching it. There are too many little flaws and annoyances for me to think that it couldn't possibly be any better. It might come a lot closer to being perfect if Sandy Peterson had never joined ID and they got someone who could consistently made good levels instead :) Just imagine what episode 3 would have been like if Romero had made it...

To me if I'm forced to choose which is "the perfect game" I wouldn't think twice.

Had you not made that mistake on the poll (which I see clearly only now) I'd have ignored the thread, I think.

Maybe you could allow the technical difficulties to convince you, changing the post text to suit the poll, instead.

I decided to just make a new thread instead. I doubt it'll get as many replies though ;)