Deep Breath - blowing away demons at the bottom of the sea! (Dev thread)

[Wo0p]

1 hour ago, EduardoAndFriends said:

constantly fighting off distracting ideas for my next project. Go away, shoo, shoo! 

 

Ain't that the truth? xD

 

Lookin' forward to it but don't rush it! Release it when it's done ^_^

[EduardoAndFriends]

3 hours ago, Wo0p said:

 

Ain't that the truth? xD

 

Lookin' forward to it but don't rush it! Release it when it's done ^_^

Absolutely. :) 

[EduardoAndFriends]

Update: Map 6 is getting sexy.

• really digging the driving, groovy midi from pcorf. Delicious.
• from a tight start studded with barrels, to a scorching foundry plasmafest, to (I hope) the best water combat segment … it’s getting fun.
• got my head turned by a TASTY midi from LightningBoltForever today that I’d love to use for the resolution map.
• once I have an initial layout for map 6, I’m going to go back and expand some earlier maps to beef them up in places and make some aesthetic tweaks.

Have a super weekend, take care. :)

-Edz xo

[EduardoAndFriends]

Update: 

heh heh, whoops. Making the final big fight of the wad and got a bit carried away. Been playing Capybara recently and perhaps emulated the viciousness a tad too much. Gotta dial it back a bit to keep it on the same level as the other maps lol. Quite fun though!

-Edz xo

[EduardoAndFriends]

Update:

Very excited to announce that maps 5,6, and 7 (7 is the thank you map) will be up in the next 24 hours for folks to test if they like. This has been a really fun project to make and I hope you like the conclusion! Stay tuned!

-Edz xo

[Wo0p]

:O Noooooooooiiiiiice! Can't wait ^_^

[Auron]

Let's goooooooooooo! <3

[EduardoAndFriends]

UPDATE: IT'S HEEEEEEEERE!

Check out the original post - the download link has been updated to this current beta majig with maps 1 - 6 of the campaign and map 7, which is a thanks map. But here is the link anyway, if you don't feel like scrollin', scrollin' scrollin' ... https://www.dropbox.com/s/jgvnygjn5tvzqhq/DB-BetaAllMaps-20-7-23.zip?dl=0

 

THERE IS ALSO AN INTERMISSION TEXT AFTER MAP 6! Check it out, hope y'all have fun, and let me know of any issues you encounter. Please be aware that this is NOT the finished product - after numerous tests and stuff and feedback received, I'll then release the final mapset here and on idgames. :p

 

Cheers! -Edz xo

[EduardoAndFriends]

I think I'll stick to a six map formula for short mapset in the future, it allows for a written resolution via the intermission text, and it feels like a nice size. Let me know what you think of the size of the set ... too smol, too big, or just right. :^)

[Wo0p]

qi2pu7helian.,jfndjkhaæw will play! :>

[DreadWanderer]

2 hours ago, EduardoAndFriends said:

UPDATE: IT'S HEEEEEEEERE!

Check out the original post - the download link has been updated to this current beta majig with maps 1 - 6 of the campaign and map 7, which is a thanks map. But here is the link anyway, if you don't feel like scrollin', scrollin' scrollin' ... https://www.dropbox.com/s/jgvnygjn5tvzqhq/DB-BetaAllMaps-20-7-23.zip?dl=0

 

THERE IS ALSO AN INTERMISSION TEXT AFTER MAP 6! Check it out, hope y'all have fun, and let me know of any issues you encounter. Please be aware that this is NOT the finished product - after numerous tests and stuff and feedback received, I'll then release the final mapset here and on idgames. :p

 

Cheers! -Edz xo

 

Hey Edz,

 

As you probably know I already played the first 4 maps, so I'll comment on 'Liquid Tension' and 'Ascent Blackout'. They are thoroughly excellent maps and fit well with the overall pace of the episode. 'Ascent Blackout' in particular is an epic finale. A few extra points:

 

- Not necessarily a criticism, but in 'Liquid Tension' there is an interesting lava-filled area near the BFG which is (apparently?) inaccessible to the player but clearly visible. I remembered what Civvie 11 said about John Romero's design philosophy - if you show something, it's probably a good idea to let the player reach it in order to encourage exploration. I realize there might be nothing there, but curious players will definitely try to access that area.

- I couldn't figure out how to get the secret supercharge in 'Liquid Tension'. There is an elevator texture on the platform where it sits, but it isn't functional. Let me know if I missed some sneaky switch or something like that.

- In 'Ascent Blackout', the cyber which spawns after you pick up the blue key isn't too effective, because he's boxed in the little square. He bumps into the edges, and as a result his movement keeps resetting instead of attacking the player.

- I only managed to get around 62 of 79 items in 'Ascent Blackout', but that's most likely my fault for not being very attentive. Should try again to max it.

 

Overall, I dare say that this is your best work yet - focused, visually pleasing, and pretty intense on UV. I'm glad that you decided to make an episode, which is my favorite format. Not that I have anything against megawads, but I feel like bigger projects can lose focus and drag on. My points are mostly from the perspective of a completionist/max obsessed player, and I'm sure you will address any issues before sending this to idgames. Thanks for another great set!

 

[Agent Strange]

Oh this looks really cool!

[nobleflame]

Played the first level and it's great. It's got a BTSX feel to it. 

 

I really enjoy the oxygen tank addition too.   

[LVENdead]

Awesome, congrats on the beta release! This is going on the list

[EduardoAndFriends]

11 hours ago, Agent Strange said:

Oh this looks really cool!

Thanks mate! And thanks for the share on your Twitter. :p

[EduardoAndFriends]

7 hours ago, nobleflame said:

Played the first level and it's great. It's got a BTSX feel to it. 

 

I really enjoy the oxygen tank addition too.   

Cheers! That’s high praise indeed as I ADORE BTSX. A pretty strong influence, haha :)

[EduardoAndFriends]

6 hours ago, LVENdead said:

Awesome, congrats on the beta release! This is going on the list

Thanks boyo. :^)

[Raith138]

I just played the first map and it is really good, looking forward to more.

Was this a solo project?

[EduardoAndFriends]

51 minutes ago, Raith138 said:

I just played the first map and it is really good, looking forward to more.

Was this a solo project?

Cheers! Yeah, I plopped it all together myself. :) hope you enjoy the rest of it!

[EduardoAndFriends]

19 hours ago, DreadWanderer said:

 

Hey Edz,

 

As you probably know I already played the first 4 maps, so I'll comment on 'Liquid Tension' and 'Ascent Blackout'. They are thoroughly excellent maps and fit well with the overall pace of the episode. 'Ascent Blackout' in particular is an epic finale. A few extra points:

 

- Not necessarily a criticism, but in 'Liquid Tension' there is an interesting lava-filled area near the BFG which is (apparently?) inaccessible to the player but clearly visible. I remembered what Civvie 11 said about John Romero's design philosophy - if you show something, it's probably a good idea to let the player reach it in order to encourage exploration. I realize there might be nothing there, but curious players will definitely try to access that area.

- I couldn't figure out how to get the secret supercharge in 'Liquid Tension'. There is an elevator texture on the platform where it sits, but it isn't functional. Let me know if I missed some sneaky switch or something like that.

- In 'Ascent Blackout', the cyber which spawns after you pick up the blue key isn't too effective, because he's boxed in the little square. He bumps into the edges, and as a result his movement keeps resetting instead of attacking the player.

- I only managed to get around 62 of 79 items in 'Ascent Blackout', but that's most likely my fault for not being very attentive. Should try again to max it.

 

Overall, I dare say that this is your best work yet - focused, visually pleasing, and pretty intense on UV. I'm glad that you decided to make an episode, which is my favorite format. Not that I have anything against megawads, but I feel like bigger projects can lose focus and drag on. My points are mostly from the perspective of a completionist/max obsessed player, and I'm sure you will address any issues before sending this to idgames. Thanks for another great set!

 

Hey there! Thanks very much for playing and for taking the time to pass on the notes - much appreciated!

 

Spoiler

 

- The secret supercharge in Liquid Tension is accessible via a teleporter that is indeed lowered thanks to a cheeky shooty switch. Have a poke around, I'm sure you'll find it. Give some crates an eyeball near the SSG area. :)

- RE: the viewable outdoor lava area in Liquid Tension: it definitely is a very good design principle of Romero's, and I largely agree with it, but I don't feel it's an absolute rule to follow. In this case it was purely window dressing with the intention of hinting that we're getting into the lava flows that power the reactor. I totally see what you mean, though.

- Oh my goodness, that darned cyber! I thought I had unpenned him, lol. Thanks for pointing that out - I previously had that pen drop to teleport him out of the room to extend the fight, but it wasn't very good. It's nicely chaotic when he 'ports in and just wanders around freely. I'm going to go back to that plan. There were previously two pain elementals that popped in too but it was just too bullshitty, ha.

- With the items, there are four ledges you can jump down to in the blue key cyber lava room with ammo + health and armour bonuses ... did ya grab them? They might be the ones missing.

 

 

Thanks, Dread Wanderer! Really appreciate your time and thoroughness! :^)

[Wo0p]

D00d. You've outdone yourself ^_^!

 

So last time I played through the first 4 maps on HMP and had my ass kicked. I apparently have got a lot better at Doom because I decided to replay ALL of the maps on UV this time. Some fights are indeed hard and even harder if you don't know they're coming! But the balance is amazingly teetering on a knife's-edge without ever going over it. There's plenty of trash monsters to blast away easily and the strategic placement of tougher enemies gives the mapset a greater quality than other works where difficulty lies in numbers of tough enemies. So you're great at placing them!

My best evidence is the final slaughter-ish fight in the last map. Oof. Yes it's hard but definitely not impossible. There's cover, there's places to go, room to run around despite the overwhelming number of varied monsters (Mostly trash) and plenty of ammo to deal with everything. LOVE THE FINAL FIGHT! Despite not generally liking vanilla slaughterfests like that. So good job in making it enjoyable for a weirdo like me :>

 

The final blow is a delightful end to the mapset (You know what I'm talking about if you've played it!) and the intermission text had, to my great delight, a surprising amount of beautiful prose that flowed smoothly. Well done :) Also! Because I replayed the whole mapset I got a chance to digest the music even more so and in my opinion it's a great choice. It's playful and lighthearted (And sounds great!) which stands in neat contrast to the gloomy environments so that the whole experience doesn't get so dark and dreary as the subject matter would otherwise entail. So yeah. I'm really considering giving this mapset a 10/10. It is simply amazing in every way.

 

The only thing I didn't like was the sudden appearance of hellknights in map 4 I think it was? They had no introduction and simply popped into existence in my face. I don't have a problem with teleporting enemies because it stays "in-universe." The teleport fog gives an in-universe basis for introducing a monster, but a monster that simply appears breaks immersion. This is a minor issue and not everyone will find this distasteful (Too strong a word but I can't think of synonym atm) and I don't consider it enough to subtract from my arbitrary 10/10 score, but I thought I would address it in either case.

 

I found an oversight also. This shadowed sector does not have damaging floor in map 01:

 

[DreadWanderer]

3 hours ago, EduardoAndFriends said:

Hey there! Thanks very much for playing and for taking the time to pass on the notes - much appreciated!

 

  Hide contents

 

- The secret supercharge in Liquid Tension is accessible via a teleporter that is indeed lowered thanks to a cheeky shooty switch. Have a poke around, I'm sure you'll find it. Give some crates an eyeball near the SSG area. :)

- RE: the viewable outdoor lava area in Liquid Tension: it definitely is a very good design principle of Romero's, and I largely agree with it, but I don't feel it's an absolute rule to follow. In this case it was purely window dressing with the intention of hinting that we're getting into the lava flows that power the reactor. I totally see what you mean, though.

- Oh my goodness, that darned cyber! I thought I had unpenned him, lol. Thanks for pointing that out - I previously had that pen drop to teleport him out of the room to extend the fight, but it wasn't very good. It's nicely chaotic when he 'ports in and just wanders around freely. I'm going to go back to that plan. There were previously two pain elementals that popped in too but it was just too bullshitty, ha.

- With the items, there are four ledges you can jump down to in the blue key cyber lava room with ammo + health and armour bonuses ... did ya grab them? They might be the ones missing.

 

 

Thanks, Dread Wanderer! Really appreciate your time and thoroughness! :^)

 

Hey Edz, thanks for the reply.

 

- About the cheeky secret supercharge switch, I finally found it, thanks for that! Very cheeky indeed, especially since you have to find a little ledge to be able to shoot it.

- I agree with Romero's philosophy not being an absolute rule, my comment was pretty general and not a point against the map. It's nice to see that mapping principles have evolved and that areas can be created purely for aesthetic purposes, it's just a question of how this goes together with Doom's nature as an action game and the kinds of things that Doom players instinctively do.

- I was just going to suggest letting the cyber roam, I feel like this makes for a harder but more exciting fight. Can't say I am in favor of adding more meatballs, though; even decino hates them! :D

- After I posted my initial comment, I played 'Ascent Blackout' again and found the areas you mentioned, managing to max the map. I think the placement is pretty okay, though it must be said that given the context (lava floors and tall platforms), it's initially hard to judge these areas as zones of interest with goodies in them. Added to that, I play without free look, so the height differential makes it quite hard to see if there's anything worthwhile there. Altogether, it's a perfectly respectable way to motivate players to search every nook and cranny. Results will vary for blind playthroughs.

[EduardoAndFriends]

5 hours ago, Wo0p said:

D00d. You've outdone yourself ^_^!

 

So last time I played through the first 4 maps on HMP and had my ass kicked. I apparently have got a lot better at Doom because I decided to replay ALL of the maps on UV this time. Some fights are indeed hard and even harder if you don't know they're coming! But the balance is amazingly teetering on a knife's-edge without ever going over it. There's plenty of trash monsters to blast away easily and the strategic placement of tougher enemies gives the mapset a greater quality than other works where difficulty lies in numbers of tough enemies. So you're great at placing them!

My best evidence is the final slaughter-ish fight in the last map. Oof. Yes it's hard but definitely not impossible. There's cover, there's places to go, room to run around despite the overwhelming number of varied monsters (Mostly trash) and plenty of ammo to deal with everything. LOVE THE FINAL FIGHT! Despite not generally liking vanilla slaughterfests like that. So good job in making it enjoyable for a weirdo like me :>

 

The final blow is a delightful end to the mapset (You know what I'm talking about if you've played it!) and the intermission text had, to my great delight, a surprising amount of beautiful prose that flowed smoothly. Well done :) Also! Because I replayed the whole mapset I got a chance to digest the music even more so and in my opinion it's a great choice. It's playful and lighthearted (And sounds great!) which stands in neat contrast to the gloomy environments so that the whole experience doesn't get so dark and dreary as the subject matter would otherwise entail. So yeah. I'm really considering giving this mapset a 10/10. It is simply amazing in every way.

 

The only thing I didn't like was the sudden appearance of hellknights in map 4 I think it was? They had no introduction and simply popped into existence in my face. I don't have a problem with teleporting enemies because it stays "in-universe." The teleport fog gives an in-universe basis for introducing a monster, but a monster that simply appears breaks immersion. This is a minor issue and not everyone will find this distasteful (Too strong a word but I can't think of synonym atm) and I don't consider it enough to subtract from my arbitrary 10/10 score, but I thought I would address it in either case.

 

I found an oversight also. This shadowed sector does not have damaging floor in map 01:

 

Hey Wo0p! Thanks for the kind words, you’re a good egg. :) totally appreciate what you mean about the hell knights, they are somewhat throw away and rather “huh?” considering what else is going on. Thanks for highlighting that non damaging floor too, I’ll fix ‘er up for the next update! Cheers!

[Wo0p]

You're very welcome ^_^ I had a blast

[LVENdead]

 

Really enjoying these maps so far. You're right, the pain is dialed back from Relic but they still are tough enough to give you a good power fantasy during crazy fights. I love the cohesion of the textures and overall art style. You clearly took inspiration from Bioshock but there's nothing that stands out as even close to wholesale ripoff. Can't wait to play the 2nd half of the set when I have more time!

[Auron]

Just finished the whole thing  and man, what a blast! Very fun and action packed maps. Maps 5 and 6 are my fav. Congratulations on this amazing map set! <3

[EduardoAndFriends]

1 hour ago, Auron said:

Just finished the whole thing  and man, what a blast! Very fun and action packed maps. Maps 5 and 6 are my fav. Congratulations on this amazing map set! <3

Thanks, Auron! It's my favourite mapset so far. I've learned a good deal about detailing and making rooms that make sense (at least to me). The next outing will be, hopefully, even more explosively fun! :)

[EduardoAndFriends]

UPDATE: Updated download link.

The main post now has an updated link (25/7/23) with a few fixes. I'm not going to upload to idgames until I've left the mapset sit for a bit in case any other things need tweaking. Ta. Link here too ...

 

LINK: https://www.dropbox.com/s/je20ehna93y41la/DB-BetaAllMaps-25-7-23Update.zip?dl=0

 

-Edz xo

[DreadWanderer]

3 hours ago, EduardoAndFriends said:

UPDATE: Updated download link.

The main post now has an updated link (25/7/23) with a few fixes. I'm not going to upload to idgames until I've left the mapset sit for a bit in case any other things need tweaking. Ta. Link here too ...

 

LINK: https://www.dropbox.com/s/je20ehna93y41la/DB-BetaAllMaps-25-7-23Update.zip?dl=0

 

-Edz xo

 

Awesome, thanks Edz!

[LVENdead]

 

Fantastic set of maps that I think represent your best work yet (that I've played). Your prickly difficulty is tempered here but not completely absent which in my experience resulted in a joyous power fantasy with excellent pacing. The high tolerance for mistakes (via the generous health and ammo) made for chaotic and improvisational gameplay that didn't require reciting a dance routine to conquer. Thematically, while the Bioshock comparison is easy to make topically, I think this more than stakes its own claim to the setting with a very confident style that makes each map a treat to take in and explore.

 

Outstanding job, I would highly recommend this one to others.