Ling's Ideas, 8/99

[Guest Anonymous User]

zsignal

[Guest [DIH]Grunt]

every one spells Doom 2 like this Doom ][ heres the Doom 3, Doom ]|[

[Guest Anonymous User]

I'd like to get a sense of what other people think made doom good. Was it the fast fluid movement of the character? Was it the cool atmosphere? Was it the monsters? Was it the weapons? What was good about doom and what wasn't. Is a setting in apocolyptic earth the kind of atmosphere we want for the next doom? Isn't the undefinable atmoshpere of DOOM 1 what made doom so great? Would a flame thrower fit the feel of DOOM? Would scarier looking monsters lend to a better feel and atmosphere? I really liked what wyvern wrote - because it was an expansion on the original - which I believe is where the story should stem from. Again - what firebrandt said seems to me the best route to take for the story - that'll really keep the doom spirit alive. I don't know about y'all, but this realy bodes well for me. I also 100% agree with what XMark said - although I don't think the music should be too heavy. I don't know why citrus claims to know that DOOM2000 won't be like doom 2 - "...there is almost a palpable excitement among the employees.." - sounds like they're pretty reminiscent of the original - this doesn't sound like they're going to be making a new game altogether - "It's time for a new game in a new generation of technology and gaming. The market has matured, and so has peoples tastes to a certain extent." - Didn't realize doom tailored to imature tastes. I have no idea what this actually means. Although I agree with what he says about less arcady - and a more in depth experience. I suppose that' what he was referring to when he said this - in which case, valid point. I very much agree with the comment about the gore - no triangles please that were in MDK and many other games - the way former humans melted and flew against a wall when a barrel blew up near them - this *MUST* be retained in doom2000 in some form or another. - stats screen after every episode rather than level - very good idea. I 100% agree with Confusion - back to what makes doom so great. No incorporating half life elements. Very good points by Myk - he has the right idea. Dark Youth's plot line - not doom enough - the UNKOWN as myk pointed out - is a very good observation of one of the aspects that made doom so good. Again, no affiliation with any other game but doom - for story and gameplay. As Teppic said. I have to agree - the fiend would go awesome in DOOM! - be the Demon's big brother - definately would work. Many ppl have a common thread: no slow one on one fights that are apparent in newer FPS - I most agree with this sentiment. Stauf7 - 100% on! I'm glad the majority know whats up! I should have read all these posts before making mine about the importance of atmoshpere - panopticon understands where I was coming from it doesn't have to be the same - as long as it has elements and captures the mood - oh and the word I couldn't think of where I used coolness - was novelty :) One thing I want to stress - I think the new doom, if it's going to be modeled after the original, should be modeled after doom 1, NOT doom 2. and as far as the plot - i'm torn as to whether it should be left out or not - an argument can be made for both. People - please reply with what you agree with and what you don't - so we can see where the majority of us stand - although I think it's pretty clear already :).

[Guest Anonymous User]

id needs to read these comments and shed light on what they are going to do when they have a rough idea of they're going to do. Do you think id would be interested in seeing these comments, ling?

[AndrewB]

The weapons, the monsters, and the fluid movability of the marine. The sounds were also great, and so were the levels and the music. Heck, it's just a well-balanced game. :-b

[AndrewB]

The weapons, the monsters, and the fluid movability of the marine. The sounds were also great, and so were the levels and the music. Heck, it's just a well-balanced game. :-b

[Linguica]

Well I sent this exact news post to Graeme Devine over at id and got no response, so either he was so bowled over he couldn't speak, so underwhelmed he ignored it, or so buried in work he couldn't make time to reply. You decide.

[Guest Kokistos]

This is exactly what I was thinking a while back. Same basic game, done in modern graphics, sound, and AI. Don't make the enemies <I>too</I> bright, though, or you can't mow down a field of 36 imps..... I want both smart and dumb enemies. I definitely think they should use the Doom 1 storyline, but they should refine it somewhat. They should also add more to the beginning and end. Start off on Mars, not Phobos. Drag out the Gateway scene between the first two episodes. And don't make the "final enemy" the final enemy--you have to kill it and then fight some normal ol' guys on your way out, too. I mentioned backward WAD compatibility on the NEW DOOM GAME thread. That is absolutely a neccessity. I want to take that one step further--make it compatible with the original IWADs, if you have them! Play Doom and Doom 2 in the glorious DOOM2K atmosphere! I don't suppose id would want to support levels for Doom source ports..... maybe that's asking a bit too much. I'm sort of caught on what to do about sprite patches, too. As for internet play, I want the standard co-op, deathmatch (no deathmatch-only levels, please), and--Persistent World mode. Yes, that's what I said. If Soul Reaver-esque streaming technology is used, servers can be set up with entire worlds full of players who can ally and battle as they see fit. Actually, this might be way slow..... 34 players on-screen at once may be a problem. Well, maybe it can be set up so only the server needs to be ultra-fast for this to work. Then we end up with about 12 PWs on a few mainframes. Feel free to criticize me, but be polite about it. Okay? Okay!

[Guest Rtoast]

Well, in response, I dont think that peoples ideas here are unrealistic. Technology is moving forward in a fast pace, and fields of 50 monsters on screen is exactly what DooM was all about. Complete mow down. I understand that that is a lot of polys to render, but they are just going to have to figure out how to do that, or else it wont feel like DooM if your not slaughtering by the dozens. And besides, the system you mention as being needed to run something like that is probably going to be the norm by the time this game actually comes out anyway. . .

[Guest Anonymous User]

Latin Archviles... love it.

[Guest LordUnum]

Shumunu kuku lulu.... <Fire engulfs you>

Na... Latin's better. :-)

[Guest LordUnum]

Kokistos and a few others have hit the nail right on the head: Some monsters in the game should definitely have some high intelligence, esp. Arch-Viles (if in fact, in some incarnation ,they do make an appearance). Ducking, speeding up, slowing down, avoiding fire to revive a nearby creature. Any sort of "zombified" creature should have a mentality on par of the typical Doom enemy: follow you until you or it dies. Everything else, somewhere inbetween there, I guess. And a variation in strength, size, or power between creature of a single type is not necessary (some refer to it as creating "species"), although at least 3 or 4 different skins per creature, more among lesser creatures, would be nice IMHO.

[Guest Wyvern]

There are a lot of mixed comments and opinions on this board, and I appreciate both Confusions's and that one anon user's "What made doom great?"

Sure, the original DooM was all about fast, furious gaming action with just a twist of story, but it also had LOTS of mood. Things to make you angry, like all the satanic references (those just spurred me to hate the bastards even more), things to disgust you (all the corpses mutilated in different ways), etc. BUT, DooM, IMO, should also have a more cinematic experience to it. Half-Life was all about plot and mood, but it still had moments of fast-paced action. Sure, they weren't there all the time like in DooM, but I think that adding a "living movie" feel in addition to the fast-paced action of the original DooM would literally blow anything else away. We owe it to DooM to make it better than anything out there. I mean, come on; it's the father of the FPS (Wolf3D is the granddaddy :D)!

I honestly don't think that a more cinematic experience would kill the feeling at all. I mean, I personally liked Hell Factory hub 1. Except for a little grammar now and then, it rocked ass! Nice changes to the geography and full of mood and atmosphere.

I know that story really isn't what DooM was all about, but I think it will make the game richer in value and longetivity if a deep one is added.

[stphrz]

I was thinking of a story along the lines of Doom2:Hell on Earth but with a twist.... Instead of the Demons comming to us in a typical invasion scenario, how about an attempt by the forces of hell to bring the entire earth to them! Consider this: A gigantic gate appears in Earth's orbital path. This gate is maintained by strange satellites with some kind of shielding that is impenatrable by any weapon that Earth's military has. If the gate cannot be destroyed in 666 hours the planet Earth will be sucked into the realm of hell, and all will be lost. The mission of the game will be to send forces through the gate, into hell itself and take down the satellite's shield generator from the inside. Note: this setup will make it possible to actually LOSE the game if you fail to shut the satellite shield generator down before the time limit expires! Sound dumb? Maybe, but I just pulled that idea out of my ass :)

[Guest Anonymous User]

Kinda stupid, but I think it could help D2K if the episodes acted like hubs, you could go to/from any level you wanted to, episode exit would open but you wouldn't be forced to leave. Also, if there's gonna be Phobos/Deimos stuff in it, since Deimos has been kinda corrupted by Hell, you could show Arch-Viles melting parts of different levels, with zombies dragging in hellish architecture (or Archies blasting them into the existing architecture.. heh) as a cut-scene between Phobos and Deimos, maybe you could use an invisibility sphere and watch them do it, then blow the hell out of them.. heh. And if you want the critics to like it, maybe throw a few puzzles in, but not anything that'd need a PhD in rocket science to figure out.

[Guest Anonymous User]

I think Fanatic made the most important comment and summed it up nicely: whatever Doom3 does it should change the downward spiral of slower and less intense gameplay. Both in single player and multiplayer, games have been: less speed, more limited weapons, less carnage. Doom3 needs speed, brutal weapons, insane amount of baddies that keep storming you relentlessly, lots of gore, and weird spooky maps. Anything else is details, especially a storyline. Good text ling.

[Guest Anonymous User]

that "Fanatic" post is me. can't you set a cookie or sommat? this is dumb. --Aardappel

[stphrz]

Yes the new Doom game should concentrate on fast, intense gameplay. The fps released lately are too slow paced imo. If id can accomplish this I think most people will be happy. I was also thinking if the story was set up so that most of the game was set in Hell, more creative levels could be constructed. Instead of the standard tech/base or goth type environments, really intense otherworldly settings could be used as the backdrop for new and unique (not to mention frightening) gameplay.

[AndrewB]

There should be more intense gameplay with the new DOOM, but not so much that it hands out headaches. That's why I want a variety of gameplay. We shouldn't cater to anyone who wants all rush rush, blast away, intense gameplay. We shouldn't cater to anyone who wants a stroll in the park all the way through, either. Create a variety of gameplay to satisfy everyone. :-b

[Guest Confusion]

Whoever first came up with the idea of flashbacks...I don't know what got into you. For a start, these sort of sequences would prove to be annoying interuptions, and in any case, they take the whole point out. If you're wandering around the Tower of Babel and find these two great bloody Cyberdemon hooves lying on the ground in an enourmous pool of congealing blood, I don't think that a flashback sequence is neccessary, or even in any way desirable. People will remember on their own, damnit.

[Guest Anonymous User]

anyone want a ball or two i have some. balls ball for Sale get them while they're hotish-i have only two for sale so come come one all and try my beautiful bouncy balls

[Guest Sethsez]

Great ideas! However, I don't think hell should be red and orange, but instead have skulls and blood and intestines coming from every surface, like the original Doom. Also, I think Trent Reznor should do the soundtrak. He did great work for Quake, and his style is perfect: sometimes quiet, dark, and moody, and other times just blast the walls out heavy. Both like Doom. Also, I think that there should be some sort of story, but it should NOT restrict level design or monsters in any way.

[stphrz]

I meant to put this in my previous post but I forgot. The occult theme of Doom should be exploited for all it's worth. Make the game EVIL. Really EVIL. Ling's idea for chanting Archviles is brilliant and is one of many ways this can be done.

[Guest Anonymous User]

I'm nervous about this. Romero was what made the two DOOM games so great. Without him, what will DOOM be?

[Guest FreAkish]

Bring in all the old weapons and monsters with a few extra's. include a deathmatch option to limit weapons to classic DooM and make sure the berserk is good enuff for us to have some fun with newbies and the game should be great.

[myk]

I just went to the bathroom. And guess what, I ran out of tiolet paper. Good thing I found one of the DOOM novels at hand.

[Linguica]

ZombiZ, I deleted your post because it was so damn long and you didn't know / forgot that you need to use HTML to break up long posts. I hope you have it saved somewhere... use

between paragraphs.

[Linguica]

Damnit heh... use [p] only have them be pointy brackets.

[Guest LordUnum]

He had some good points there, Ling. He obviously put A LOT of thinking into his post, and it would be a real pity if the ideas he brought up (whether liked/disliked by some) were lost due to a mere failure of using proper syntax. Admittedly, damn his post was long! But I'd rather see that long, messy post than miss the opportunity for his ideas to be debated upon. After all, we don't know if/when he will be back to this site, and in the meantime, the post's contents are lost, maybe permanently.

In case he doesn't come back, he heralded EAX sound, the Unreal-engine's light-sourcing, and hardware T&L as some of the technologies Doom should utilize. He also mentioned the introduction of real-time physics in most of the ways the player(s) interacts with the environment, and realism in the way the player(s) is affected by weapons, and such. In addition, he said the title should not be Doom 2K, or anything that would sound cheesy, or imply a "rehash," but something more like (I believe this was what he said: "Doom, the Legacy of the Last Marine." The game would also consider the affected mental psyche of the Space Marine (player) after having been through Doom, Doom 2, Final Doom, etc, and how that would affect gameplay.

[Guest Confusion]

Bet you're sick of hearing my voice...anyway, I agree that ZombiZ's ideas are...interesting. Not what I'd really want to see in DOOM III, but at least he's put a bit of thought into it.

I wonder what else he thinks of. I'd be interesting to see any SHORTER posts of his.