Kama Sutra Demopack [Released!]

[Opulent]

Angus (noting improvement was still easily possible -- and 1:04 has been done already):
http://www.doomworld.com/sda/dwdemo/ks20-108.zip
Anima getting Map29 under 30 min:
http://www.doomworld.com/sda/dwdemo/ks292822.zip

[Angus Thermopyle]

Kristian: Great idea to play it pacifist up to the imp hordes. 3rd exit under 1:00, please :)
Anima: 28:22? OMG, that's brilliant! I'll watch it this night before going to bed.

[Gusta]

Wow pretty much stuff, I really hope the ksutra-n will be updated soon. And with many missed shots, mistakes, blunders, shitoffs and so on ... I recorded a maxdemo for map 18 in 13:28 filling the last gap in a maxtable, I just can hope somebody will beat that crap :)
I will send that one to Opulent too...

[Gusta]

Btw. Here are the actual max record times:
01 - Radeg 1:07
02 - Method 1:53
03 - Radeg 1:19
04 - Radeg 3:23
05 - Gusta 3:55
06 - Gusta 5:30
07 - Radeg 2:10
08 - Anima 6:00
09 - Radeg 3:26
10 - Anima 12:42
11 - Anima 5:41
12 - Gusta 3:03
13 - Anima 8:08
14 - Gusta 7:23
15 - Anima 7:19
16 - Gusta 8:27
17 - Radeg 7:38
18 - Gusta 13:28
19 - Method 8:39
20 - Anima 11:12
21 - Vile 3:26
22 - Anima 9:42
23 - Anima 10:33
24 - Anima 11:31
25 - Angus 3:59
26 - Angus 9:22
27 - Anima 11:35
28 - Ryback 41:04
29 - Anima 28:22
30 - Opulent 0:37
31 - Richie 13:42
32 - Anima 5:52

I am sorry if I am wrong a bit somewhere I wrote how do I remember the times.

[Grazza]

Gusta said:

09 - Radeg 3:26

Wasn't that on the old version of the map, without the SMM near the exit? Or has he has also done a 3:26 on the new version? AFAIK, the best time on the current version so far is Anima's 4:18.

Edit: whoops! Sorry for not checking more carefully.

[Gusta]

Radeg did it for new version too, the time for old version of him was 3:42. Until the ksutra-n will be updated I sent his demos to Opulent too.

[Gusta]

Well I see Anima's time for map24 was 11:31 no 11:19, sorry

[Opulent]

whoa
http://www.doomworld.com/sda/dwdemo/ks181328gusta.zip
http://www.doomworld.com/sda/dwdemo/ks16-827gusta.zip
http://www.doomworld.com/sda/dwdemo/KS17-738radeg.zip
http://www.doomworld.com/sda/dwdemo/KS09-326radeg.zip
http://www.doomworld.com/sda/dwdemo/KS03-119radeg.zip

[Anima Zero]

Well, was bored today, so I looked for some undone UV-Speeds. And I found one...

For those whom might have thought map 26 was impossible, if not very hard, to do a UV-Speed run on...think again :).

Sending a 2:46 UV-Speed of map 26, "Kill Bill", to Ops. I get an archie to blast me into the central acid pit in the 2nd half of the map. Not easy when there's several dozen monsters around that could distract the archie.

Oh, and very much improvable too. I'd say around...2:30 or less perhaps?

Sending the demo to Ops now.

[Opulent]

http://www.doomworld.com/sda/dwdemo/ks26-246.zip

[Angus Thermopyle]

Improved Map26 UV Speed to 2:06. I'll send it to Opulent and ksutra-n.

Nice AV jump, Anima :) I varied it a bit. You don't need the lift in the acid. The archvile can push you onto the ledge at the spider. Under 2:00 possible, especially with a more aggressive start.

A lot faster strategies, where you don't need to BFG to the other side:
- the luck route: the archvile at the other side is not destracted and helps you out of the window
- the skill route: a ST50 jump out of the window Gusta showed me once. But I can't perform this.

[Opulent]

40 second improvement from Angus:
http://www.doomworld.com/sda/dwdemo/ks26-206.zip

[Grazza]

Just thinking about map32: should a glide be possible to get around the pillar blocking off access to the exit switch? If you didn't have to kill the Keens, then this map could be done quite quickly. The gap is 32 units, but I haven't managed to get through it at all.

[Gusta]

mmm...guess twice :)

[Kristian Ronge]

Well, since there are known glides (e.g. Doom 2 map 22) that are 32 units, and work, it should work, but I haven't pulled it off yet, in spite of several attempts. :-(

I'll try some more and see if I can come up with something.

EDIT:

OMG!

Map 32 UV speed in 0:20!!!

Wonderful map, wonderful trick. :-)

[Anima Zero]

Angus Thermopyle said:

Nice AV jump, Anima :) I varied it a bit. You don't need the lift in the acid. The archvile can push you onto the ledge at the spider. Under 2:00 possible, especially with a more aggressive start.

Thanks :). I had another go at improving the UV-Speed on map 26, and as you said, sub 2:00 was possible. I improved the time to 1:48. The modified strategy in the beginning, which was to get to the RL ASAP, was a big time saver.

Oh, and many attempts needed to finally get an exit (128 attempts!!!).

Now then, I wonder if a low 1:4x time or better is possible for this map. Perhaps, we'll see.

Sending the demo to Ops.

[Opulent]

http://www.doomworld.com/sda/dwdemo/ks26-148.zip

[Gusta]

Wow cool speedy times, btw. will I watch any improved maxrun from somebody? I hope that completition of table doesn't mean the end of max entries...

Btw. When I was thinking about releasing the demopack I noticed that there are still two demos they aren't doom2.exe compatible:
Map15 with that VPO, even it's caused by my fault I think this one could be redone for the demopack since that VPO is very rare, what do you think about it Anima? Or if somebody else would have an interest in this map it will be welcomed too.
Map28 which is recorded in MBF without complevel 0. Even it's not doom2.exe compatible demo and nobody else would manage to beat with compatible demo I would underdstand it as a hard expection and let the demo in a pack.

[Anima Zero]

Gusta said:

Btw. When I was thinking about releasing the demopack I noticed that there are still two demos they aren't doom2.exe compatible:
Map15 with that VPO, even it's caused by my fault I think this one could be redone for the demopack since that VPO is very rare, what do you think about it Anima?

Alrighty then, just did another map 15 UV-Max. Knocked it under 7 mins now.

Time for the demo is 6:54. Could still be improved a bit since I missed some SSG shots.

Sending the demo to Ops now.

[Grazza]

Kristian Ronge said:

Map 32 UV speed in 0:20!!!

Well done! I watched that demo with genuine excitement, as I wasn't sure how you'd have done it, or if you'd found some other trick.

I think you deserve most of the credit for this trick. All I did was measure a gap and ask a question - you actually found a method to get through it. It's funny that walking forward seems to work best here. It would be good to understand exactly what makes these glides work so there was less trial and error involved.

[Kristian Ronge]

It makes me glad that you enjoyed that one. About the trick credit, I can't really see why you shouldn't get credit for it. Okay, so I was the first to do it in a demo (not counting perhaps Gusta & C:o), but I wouldn't have even *looked* at this map for UV speed, if it hadn't been for your comments...

About the trick itself: I don't actually walk through, I have "always run" activated. So I run through. It has worked by wiggling also, it seems to vary. Sometimes I can have 25 attempts in a row where it doesn't work, and sometimes it works first time. It also doesn't seem to work if you straferun, for instance.

Anyways, I did a NM run of the map as well, earlier tonight. It's pretty sketchy but it's a much harder run than its UV counterpart. Much improvable. (trick didn't work until at least 5th or 6th attempt, bah!)

Map 32 NM speed in 0:31.
Enjoy!

EDIT: Haven't forgotten about map 20, by the way. Still working on it. Sorry, Jochen, 3rd exit was "only" 1:03. ;-D
Then several 1:01's. I'll try to get below 1:00 soon.

[Opulent]

Anima: http://www.doomworld.com/sda/dwdemo/ks15-654.zip

[Grazza]

Anima Zero said:

Alrighty then, just did another map 15 UV-Max. Knocked it under 7 mins now. Time for the demo is 6:54.

In case you weren't able to test it yourself, I can confirm that this one plays back OK with Doom2.exe.

Kristian Ronge said:

I don't actually walk through, I have "always run" activated. So I run through. It has worked by wiggling also, it seems to vary. Sometimes I can have 25 attempts in a row where it doesn't work, and sometimes it works first time. It also doesn't seem to work if you straferun, for instance.

Sorry, I was using language carelessly. I just had in mind that it seems to need "standard" forward running rather than straferunning. Edit: though you can get through when walking (or indeed when purely strafing). I doubt a stroller would be very easy though. :p

[Grazza]

Not a stroller, but a pacifist at least:
Map32 UV Pacifist in 0:59.

It's a first exit, and unfortunately I waste about 13 seconds before getting the glide to work. I'm not sure what a good time would be, as so much depends on monster cooperation - most importantly for the mancs and cybers not to distract each other too much, as they are the best at clearing the imps out of the way.

[Kristian Ronge]

Nice demo, Grazza! I tried for pacifist as well the other night, but I always got killed trying to do the trick (I should've waited for the Arch-Vile to run out, like you did!).

By the way, there's a much quicker (but much more dangerous) way of clearing out those imps, though: You can use Cyber rockets to get rid of enough of them to squeeze through (2 rockets are enough, usually). This depends on the Cyber not being distracted, and some pretty accurate timing to avoid the rockets. But it is possible. :-)

About ks32 stroller: I have discovered a truly wonderful way to do this, but this post is too small to hold it...

[Grazza]

Kristian Ronge said:

By the way, there's a much quicker (but much more dangerous) way of clearing out those imps, though: You can use Cyber rockets to get rid of enough of them to squeeze through (2 rockets are enough, usually). This depends on the Cyber not being distracted, and some pretty accurate timing to avoid the rockets. But it is possible. :-)

Sure, "nothing is impossible" (movie quote!) with ideal cooperation. I think the big problem though isn't so much reaching the red key quickly, as getting back out after picking it up. Have you had any attempts where you got in and out that way?

Regarding the archie at the end, I think the most important thing is at least to wake him before running in. Giving him time to run out just gives you an even larger margin for error.

I've got an improved Pacifist exit (0:45 with "just" 3 stabs at the glide), but won't bother uploading it unless I give up on improving it.

[Kristian Ronge]

Grazza said:
Sure, "nothing is impossible" (movie quote!) with ideal cooperation.

"There's nothing that can't be done".
--The Usual Suspects

Have you had any attempts where you got in and out that way?

Yes, and I would send it to you, only I usually delete all failed attempts (unless they're hilarious for some reason). I got the idea when doing the UV speed and noticing how I often got shot in the back by Cyber rockets. Getting in and out again is possible with maybe 2 imps in the corridor (not counting perhaps those around the corner, who usually don't see you until you're going for the key). If you hold them back while waiting for the lift to lower, you can sneak in, grab the key, and out again without being blocked.

[Anima Zero]

Gusta said:

And with many missed shots, mistakes, blunders, shitoffs and so on ... I recorded a maxdemo for map 18 in 13:28 filling the last gap in a maxtable, I just can hope somebody will beat that crap :)

The crap has been beaten at your request :). Took me a good few hours, but I improved map 18 UV-Max to 12:35. Used your route with some tweaks/changes of my own.

Going to send to Ops now.

[Opulent]

Mr. Anima Zero: http://www.doomworld.com/sda/dwdemo/ks181235.zip

[Gusta]

Thanks Mr.Anima :) I just don't have time to play it these days, so I don't know if you can expect an improvement from me. But your time is very similar (I think even better) as Method's one-year old maxdemo we have lost so that great!

Kristian & Grazza: Very nice times on map32, I have never recorded a demo for this map myselfjust knew that glide is possible. I did it using St50 with right angle, it also works.
Now there are just a few maps without a speed record: 14, 15normal exit, 22, 24, 29, 31. Note that except map14 they aren't so speed-friendly.:(