Can the Gameplay Work?

[NoirSuede]

SavageCorona said:

I definitely think there will be some modern shooter bum fluff coating some parts of the mechanics, like the aforementioned finite sprinting and (doubtful but still possible) aiming down sights.

If they just gave Doom 1 or 2 a new coat of paint and slapped copyright 2015 on the bottom then newschool gamers would be like "lol how do i 360 noscope xddd" and a lot of their sales would rely on the oldschool gamers, specifically ones who played shooters and some newschool gamers who want to try out an oldschool game but don't want to play one "cause the graphics are shit" or something.

I wouldn't be too mad if they did go down the Wolfenstein route, where it's not really super fast straferunning and there is aim down sights and reloading. New Order had all these new things but still made an amazing oldschool game.

Finite sprinting is fine, but to compensate for that you need to have a high base movespeed, which New Order lacked and what keeps it from truly being an old-school game (i'ts less 3D and more RTCW imho).

Iron-sights are also completely fine, but only if they don't slow you down, which makes them a cool looking zoom mode instead of a pace-breaker.

[purist]

DoomKid123 said:

Well I Guess we will have to wait and see

You've answered your own question :-p

[SavageCorona]

NoirSuede said:

i'ts less 3D and more RTCW imho

That's not a bad thing. RTCW is a very good game. You could still bunnyhop and move at stupid speeds since they literally changed nothing about the engine from Quake 3. I agree New Order's base move speed was rather slow but it didn't really need to have extremely fast movement. I'm also pretty sure it had infinite sprinting too.

[quakke]

It did have infinite sprinting but the sprinting was still imo unfitting for an wolfenstein game because it holstered your gun and thus removed run&gun from the game.

Gun holstered running = covershooter

[SavageCorona]

I wouldn't say that being unable to shoot while sprinting makes the game a cover shooter. Sitting in cover while shooting makes it a cover shooter. I tended to lean towards dual wielding fully automatic assault shotguns and charging towards everyone blowing heads off left and right.

[ChickenOrBeef]

Antroid said:

I wouldn't mind it being even farther from the originals than D3 in terms of action-ness.

...

Pretty much what this would mean is that we'd never be truly safe taking demons head on like we're used to, and we'd need to flee, hide, etc.

I respect your opinion, but I feel that type of game is already being made regularly. You're essentially describing a generic survival horror game. Yes, it would be fresh for Doom, but not fresh for gaming in general.

SavageCorona said:

I tended to lean towards dual wielding fully automatic assault shotguns and charging towards everyone blowing heads off left and right.

And then you'd have to reload, and then you'd have to stare at the ground and click on ammo individually, and then you'd have to run and sheath your weapons, and then there's hit-scan enemies everywhere, etc. Sure, TNO allows for more running and gunning than most other modern shooters, but there's still heavy encouragement to play slower and take cover. But on the other hand, it wasn't a true stealth game either. No hiding bodies. You couldn't sneak past all enemies. It tried to do both and handled both decently at best.

[Kaskaum]

Remember that Doom was originally intended to make the player press the button for sprint, just like modern shooters.

Without sprint Doomguy is not so fast. The problem is that the game offers the option of always sprinting.

Maybe this Doom, at least for consoles, won't offer such option, making the player hold the sprint button.

[ChickenOrBeef]

Kaskaum said:

Remember that Doom was originally intended to make the player press the button for sprint, just like modern shooters.

Without sprint Doomguy is not so fast. The problem is that the game offers the option of always sprinting.

Maybe this Doom, at least for consoles, won't offer such option, making the player hold the sprint button.

In the QuakeCon demo there was sprinting, but the guns weren't sheathed. So that's pretty cool already, but I wonder if they'll allow for "Always Run" as well.

[NoirSuede]

ChickenOrBeef said:

In the QuakeCon demo there was sprinting, but the guns weren't sheathed. So that's pretty cool already, but I wonder if they'll allow for "Always Run" as well.

Maybe in the console versions (or while using a gamepad) your speed will be dictated by how far you've titled the analog stick (if you tilt it half-way you'll get a walk, tilt it fully and you'll get a run) while in the PC version you get a run button.

[SavageCorona]

That's how it's worked for a while. In fact a lot of PS2 games did that if I remember rightly.

[780racer]

Hey guys,

I was reading in anticipation of the new DOOM and I wanted to try and at least give my opinion on some of the topics talked about in this thread.



For one... HI, Super cool to be here. I am a huge Doom/Quake/Wolfenstien fan.

Anyways, (Warning WALL OF TEXT)

So the one thing that we have to all realize is that games have shifted. It was brought up a little bit, but 1 have 2 videos that is another persons opinion similar to mine (I could be wrong). But Wanted to give my 2 cents.

First video I will being into light is this one

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FpigqfcvlM

In this video he talks about how Mega Man X was a great game. The topic I more want to bring into light that I think he does a good job of talking about is that games today are catered to I guess the younger generation that apparently does not know how to breath without help. ( Im not actually saying in this post that the younger generations is dumb, but yeah)

I think that part of the issue is they have dumb'd down games. In more than one way. No longer are you rewarded for exploring, nor these days do you struggle as much with having the 2 weapon system. It makes the game easier if I don't have to manage my ammo as much as the older games. They other thing is everything is more of a tour than an actual game it feels.

This leads me into the second video talking about how OOT is not the best zelda, at least in this Youtuber's eyes.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOC3vixnj_0&index=21&list=RD0jfU7pw76ZE


in this video he talks about how going from 2D to 3D which is a bit "Kind of like- Loosely" DOOM. it was more a bastard 2D IMO with actual DOOM and DOOM 2.

I think that between the fact that games have moved less from actual exploration since people have no patience these days, plus the attention span of a fly or that is what I feel a lot of devs think. This also includes back tracking. I don't like doing it a lot, but I feel some small amount adds to the exploration even in an FPS. I then feel like its more of a roller coaster as someone mentioned earlier, the game does not teach you, instead it TELLS you what to do. Gone are the days where you have to just figure it out, and use your wits.


I think that because this is a reboot we have to decide if we want to support DOOM or let it die. I think at the end of the day, this game should be fun, but not the actual DOOM "3" we want. I think that because they have not focused on shadows, it then makes me feel like it could be less like the bastard "doom 3" that we all don't want to accept to the series.

I am excited to see the game play. I will support DOOM even if it isn't what we want. Because I don't want only COD and COD knock offs to rule FPS, Minus CS.

I hope this makes sense. I suck at explaining myself, but hoped that with these videos My points kinda hit something other than the garbage can immediately. Also its 3am when I got accepted to post, and wanted to try to add to the conversation.


PS. 60 FPS on consoles is a big deal, which could cause the PC version to get nerf'd. Just the shitty part about consoles for now being the go to for casual gamers.

Thanks,

780Racer

[NoirSuede]

[780racer]

I really just want to help support DOOM similar to other games, in hopes that it works out. But I think they know its really time to do or die. The Reboots don't inspire much faith if we look historically at other games. But I am hopeful, A great example of a game that has been able to "come back" as it were, was CSGO. But that was because its a online only shooter, and Valve eventually listened and changed the issues that made the game at launch not so great. I don't feel that will work in this case.

Either way, ill be a fan till they day they screw it all up completely.

[NoirSuede]

780racer said:

I really just want to help support DOOM similar to other games, in hopes that it works out. But I think they know its really time to do or die. The Reboots don't inspire much faith if we look historically at other games. But I am hopeful, A great example of a game that has been able to "come back" as it were, was CSGO. But that was because its a online only shooter, and Valve eventually listened and changed the issues that made the game at launch not so great. I don't feel that will work in this case.

Either way, ill be a fan till they day they screw it all up completely.

Mortal Kombat 9
XCOM : Enemy Unknown
Shadow Warrior 2013

These three games are all reboots that are so successful that they're getting (or gotten in case of MK9) sequels.

[ChickenOrBeef]

NoirSuede said:

Id Tech 1 (Quake) = 3D graphics
Id Tech 2 (Quake 2) = Open GL support & colored lighting
Id Tech 3 (Quake 3) = no gimmicks
Id Tech 4 (Doom 3) = Dynamic shadows
Id Tech 5 (RAGE) = Megatextures

You have that slightly wrong. Quake 1 and 2 used the same engine.

Id Tech 1 (Doom, Doom II)
Id Tech 2 (Quake, Quake II)
Id Tech 3 (Quake III)
Id Tech 4 (Doom III)
Id Tech 5 (Rage)
Id Tech 6 (Doom IV)

[NoirSuede]

ChickenOrBeef said:

You have that slightly wrong. Quake 1 and 2 used the same engine.

Id Tech 1 (Doom, Doom II)
Id Tech 2 (Quake, Quake II)
Id Tech 3 (Quake III)
Id Tech 4 (Doom III)
Id Tech 5 (Rage)
Id Tech 6 (Doom IV)

Wait Quake 1 and 2 used the same engine ?

[Clonehunter]

Not really, it's just that Quake II is referred to as the id tech 2 engine, and Doom is id tech 1. Quake, I guess, is it's own thing. But it has more in common with id tech 2.

[NoirSuede]

Clonehunter said:

Not really, it's just that Quake II is referred to as the id tech 2 engine, and Doom is id tech 1. Quake, I guess, is it's own thing. But it has more in common with id tech 2.

So Quake 1 is Id Tech 1.5 ?

[[LeD]Jake Crusher]

I remember asking John Carmack about id tech engines... and he replied.
https://twitter.com/LeDJakeCrusher/status/523547631658995712

[Shaviro]

So who pulled the plug on engine licensing? The engine rename move was obviously done with licensing in mind as a way of distancing themselves from the initial implementation, thus broadening the potential market. Who pulled the plug?

Was it

• Id Software?
  
• Zenimax?
  
• Lacklustre engine tech?
  
• The 1989 Denver Broncos?
  

[NoirSuede]

[LeD]Jake Crusher said:

I remember asking John Carmack about id tech engines... and he replied.
https://twitter.com/LeDJakeCrusher/status/523547631658995712

Oh, so Quake 1 is Id Tech 2, and Quake 2 is roughly Id Tech 2.5 ?

[[LeD]Jake Crusher]

NoirSuede said:

Oh, so Quake 1 is Id Tech 2, and Quake 2 is roughly Id Tech 2.5 ?

Well, long before I always thought that Quake's engine is simply called "Quake engine" (yours truly, Cap :-)). But after Mr. Carmack's reply... well, I guess - you can say that.

[eXg. ShooteR]

Personally I think this game will be a success on PC, ONLY IF, they keep strafe jumping a part of it. Just like in Quake and Doom 3, the ability to strafe jump and maneuver quickly, which is what was stated about this, is what will bring the professional arena style FPS players back to Doom. It's been a long decade since Doom 3 first came out, and it was very fast paced when played right, just like Quake.