Archvile
Register | User Profile | Member List | F.A.Q | Privacy Policy | New Blog | Search Forums | Forums Home
Doomworld Forums : Powered by vBulletin version 2.2.5 Doomworld Forums > Special Interest > Freedoom > Great Idea
 
Author
All times are GMT. The time now is 15:43. Post New Thread    Post A Reply
racoq
Newbie


Posts: 5
Registered: 09-06
Hello Guys

Fist of all what a great work and a briliant idea to make a free version of an doom wad for enabling doom fans to take advantage of the doom engine for playing without the need to accquire any doom version to ID Software.

Having said that, here's my idea (more like a request)

I recently tried Doomsday (http://www.doomsdayhq.com/ - another brilliant modding of the doom engine which has transperancy, lightning efects, enhanced sound etc..), and now he has support for PK3 objects, enabling 3D Models, for compatible doom wads.

So since i've liked your idea so much, ive tried to select your doom2.wad on the Snowberry interface of doomsday, and selected the addon for rendering 3D enemy models, jdoom-resource-pack101 available at:
http://sourceforge.net/project/show...?group_id=74815

And the result was the best of the 2 worlds, eye candy and briliant sound, and a free quality game.

However i've noticed that right at the first level some switches that bring down some platforms, and some doors don't work. So probably your wad isn't yet a 100% compatible doom wad, or probably the doomsday were only made to the known doom versions.

Either way, what i suggest is a further work maybe if possible with the doomsday comunity, enabling a free 100% compatible with the doomsday engine, adressing this issues.

Just see what an 100% freedoom with a great engine like doomsday and 3d models would be important for the comunity of classic doom fans who want to develop a great quality and open source game!

I ask at least the authors of fredom and Doomsday consider this possibility.


It would be great for all

Thanks and please let me know what you guys think of my idea.
Old Post 09-09-06 02:40 #
racoq is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Search || Add Buddy Report to mod || IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
esselfortium
Senior Member


Posts: 1361
Registered: 01-02
Freedoom is made for Doom source ports that are compatible with the Boom featureset. Most source ports are compatible with this already, but as of now, Doomsday is not, as you discovered when you tried playing Freedoom with it. However, Boom compatiblilty is currently at the top of the priority list of the Doomsday Engine development team, and it will likely be in the next major release.
Old Post 09-09-06 03:07 #
esselfortium is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Homepage || Search || Add Buddy Report to mod || IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
leileilol
dork stalker


Posts: 2209
Registered: 06-04
this would be legally stupid as the jdrp stuff is meant for doom only and todd hollenshead would be pissed if this were intended for official usage with FreeDOOM.
Old Post 09-09-06 04:47 #
leileilol is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Search || Add Buddy Report to mod || IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
racoq
Newbie


Posts: 5
Registered: 09-06
Legally stupid, why? Doomsday is open source, Free Doom, is open source, jDRP is for free use with the Doomsday engine.

I don't see your point.

At:

http://daniel.ddsdesign.co.uk/jDRPAlpha/index.php

You can see the jDRP disclaimer that states:

You may NOT use ANY part of the jDRP, either in part or in full, for any purpose other than with jDoom (Doomsday Engine), it doesn't say that you cannot use it with another wad that an official doom wad.

The jDoom resource pack was made by the comunty for the comunity, and it's free

Besides that, freedom is doom (an open source wad version of doom)

Besides that, how would you know that this person would be pissed?

Last edited by racoq on 09-09-06 at 12:10
Old Post 09-09-06 12:00 #
racoq is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Search || Add Buddy Report to mod || IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
Graf Zahl
Forum Spammer


Posts: 3992
Registered: 01-03
leileilol said:
this would be legally stupid as the jdrp stuff is meant for doom only and todd hollenshead would be pissed if this were intended for official usage with FreeDOOM.



Theoretically both Freedoom and JDRP could be accused of trying to mimic the original Doom resources too closely. But it's all one big gray area. and so far nobody has complained about it though - and no matter what these projects contain - you won't be able to play the original levels with them without owning the IWADs.
Old Post 09-09-06 12:16 #
Graf Zahl is online now Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Homepage || Search || Add Buddy Report to mod || IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
racoq
Newbie


Posts: 5
Registered: 09-06
Graf Zahl said:



Theoretically both Freedoom and JDRP could be accused of trying to mimic the original Doom resources too closely. But it's all one big gray area. and so far nobody has complained about it though - and no matter what these projects contain - you won't be able to play the original levels with them without owning the IWADs.


I agree that this is a gray area, although there is been for a long time clones of well known applications, see for instances for those who use Linux, XMMS is more or less a clone of Winamp, but Nullsoft didn't complained. And i don't think that id software will, because since they've open sourced doom that they're priority isn't classic doom anymore, but the quake's and Doom 3.

Even the 3d models of the JDRP resource package although similar, aren't exactly equal, as the brown monsters are similar, other models are not, so this would be very difficult to prove. I don't think that ID software staff, would give all much trouble for this...
Old Post 09-09-06 12:35 #
racoq is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Search || Add Buddy Report to mod || IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
CODOR
Member


Posts: 272
Registered: 02-06
id's policy is that content can't be ported from one game to another. So Doom 2 resources can be used in Doom 2 maps, but you can't extract them and use them in Ultimate Doom maps. And naturally you can't use any resources from doom.wad or doom2.wad in Freedoom.

The grey area comes from the fact that the JDRP models look like the same objects/creatures from Doom, so some might interpret this as using id's resources in Freedoom. I don't, but I'm not a lawyer and why tempt the real ones? :-)

Besides, the models don't look anything like the Freedoom replacements. Although once the sprites are finished in Freedoom, it'd be nice if someone made models of them...
Old Post 09-09-06 17:11 #
CODOR is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Search || Add Buddy Report to mod || IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
leileilol
dork stalker


Posts: 2209
Registered: 06-04
Graf Zahl said:
But it's all one big gray area. and so far nobody has complained about it though


really
Old Post 09-09-06 17:47 #
leileilol is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Search || Add Buddy Report to mod || IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
myk
No "P" in Diplomacy


Posts: 9773
Registered: 04-02
leileilol said:
really
That thread is about mixing them both for distribution, not a complaint about either project separately.

With the JDRP team's permission any original textures in the JDRP could be used for a Freedoom extension (as long as nothing is a modification of something by id). And the models depict the id characters directly, so they should probably be distributed only for id's games. If anyone wants to use them with Freedoom they have to get them separately, but they can't safely be part of Freedoom itself.
Old Post 09-09-06 21:18 #
myk is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Homepage || Search || Add Buddy Report to mod || IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
racoq
Newbie


Posts: 5
Registered: 09-06
myk said:
That thread is about mixing them both for distribution, not a complaint about either project separately.

With the JDRP team's permission any original textures in the JDRP could be used for a Freedoom extension (as long as nothing is a modification of something by id). And the models depict the id characters directly, so they should probably be distributed only for id's games. If anyone wants to use them with Freedoom they have to get them separately, but they can't safely be part of Freedoom itself.


I agree...

I did not ask to doomsday and freedoom merge their projects in a single release, i've just asked compability between the two projects.

The reason is that although i recognize the effort from the freedom, i don't like the way that some models look like. But i find the construction of the maps very interesting and the project very appealing.

And i don't think that Dany J. realy know what open source is. So i suggest that or eather it calls it Free / freeware, or open source (two different terms). If it's open souce anyone can modify it and even fork it, if not, than he as a point.
Old Post 09-10-06 17:42 #
racoq is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Search || Add Buddy Report to mod || IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
Grazza
omg lolcano


Posts: 9570
Registered: 07-02
racoq said:
I did not ask to doomsday and freedoom merge their projects in a single release, i've just asked compability between the two projects.
Neither Doomsday, jDRP nor Freedoom was intended to be used in order to play Doom pwads with iwad-like resources without having to buy the original game(s). This would go against the spirit and probably the letter of the licenses/permissions on which they are based. It is therefore absolutely reasonable (if not necessary) for the creators of these resources to prevent or forbid them from being used in this way.
Old Post 09-10-06 18:18 #
Grazza is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Homepage || Search || Add Buddy Report to mod || IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
racoq
Newbie


Posts: 5
Registered: 09-06
Grazza said:
Neither Doomsday, jDRP nor Freedoom was intended to be used in order to play Doom pwads with iwad-like resources without having to buy the original game(s).



http://freedoom.sourceforge.net/

"The Freedoom project aims to create a complete Doom-based game which is Free Software"

I don't think that the freedom team goal is to make us buy doom :)


Did open office was made to make us all buy microsoft office ? :D That doesn' make sense.

Probably, what you would mean is that Doomsday and jDRP were not intended to be used with freedom, to get a look similiar to doom, avoiding the need of buying doom.

If the doom series official iwads, where free, what would be the point of creating freedom? Probably it would never exist, or it would be another project like any other.

In my opinion the freedoom project fills a gap, in doom for all who somehow want a way of playing it free, and don't want to buy a licences to id software.

The facts are, that it is possible to use the three projects. So or either project leaders, work together and try to get compatible, and we will get a quality solution, for people who want to try it, or else choose to ignore this and many other people will use this weakness and do it either the way, and a fork will be created.

Last edited by racoq on 09-10-06 at 19:21
Old Post 09-10-06 18:49 #
racoq is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Search || Add Buddy Report to mod || IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
Jon
Freedoom Bloke


Posts: 1172
Registered: 09-00
Grazza said:
Neither Doomsday, jDRP nor Freedoom was intended to be used in order to play Doom pwads with iwad-like resources without having to buy the original game(s). This would go against the spirit and probably the letter of the licenses/permissions on which they are based. It is therefore absolutely reasonable (if not necessary) for the creators of these resources to prevent or forbid them from being used in this way.


As racoq has pointed out, this was in fact one of the founding purposes of freedoom. Regarding spirit/letter of licences/permissions on which they are based: in freedoom's case, we started from scratch.
Old Post 09-12-06 23:54 #
Jon is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Homepage || Search || Add Buddy Report to mod || IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
Grazza
omg lolcano


Posts: 9570
Registered: 07-02
My point was that the freedoom resources can't be a clone of those in the original games; you can't have each monster and texture (etc.) be just a slightly different-looking version of the one that they are replacing, even if they are made from scratch. Correct?

With that in mind, it would surely go against the spirit and letter of the discussions with id (in so far as I have seen them quoted and described), for the freedoom team to make some statement like: "here's the freedoom iwad, just full of placeholders - we recommend you play it with jDRP" (the resources in which are intended to look like those in the iwad).

To put it another way, using Freedoom + jDRP in the way described is a "creative" way to sidestep the restrictions under which each project is being undertaken. While you can't necessarily stop individual users from doing that, it surely isn't something that either team could openly support.
Old Post 09-13-06 00:07 #
Grazza is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Homepage || Search || Add Buddy Report to mod || IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
myk
No "P" in Diplomacy


Posts: 9773
Registered: 04-02
The purpose of each project is different, and indeed the JDRP team makes its artwork to imitate DOOM as closely as possible because what it wants is DOOM in a 3D world, not a free independent game. Freedoom tries to look different from DOOM to a degree because what it wants is a free IWAD package for the community, geared mostly towards software rendering or light hardware mode (at least initially). Thus they aren't very compatible in terms of design not should their licenses be equivalent, yet the resources point to the same game structure so an individual should probably not have much trouble combining them once each is independently complete.

Anyway, the issue that started this thread does not seem to have much to do with the resources themselves, as it seems to be some compatibility conflict due to the way the maps are designed.

Freedoom's maps use Boom features and the Doomsday team is still in the process of implementing these.
Old Post 09-13-06 00:54 #
myk is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Homepage || Search || Add Buddy Report to mod || IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
All times are GMT. The time now is 15:43. Post New Thread    Post A Reply
 
Doomworld Forums : Powered by vBulletin version 2.2.5 Doomworld Forums > Special Interest > Freedoom > Great Idea

Show Printable Version | Email this Page | Subscribe to this Thread

 

Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts 		HTML code is OFF
vB code is ON
Smilies are OFF
[IMG] code is ON
 

< Contact Us - Doomworld >

Powered by: vBulletin Version 2.2.5
Copyright ©2000, 2001, Jelsoft Enterprises Limited.

Forums Directory