OMFG JDOOM OWNS!!

If you think something is better just by graphics, you're wrong. You can't just keep coming out with a prettier and prettier Pong. I don't think jDoom offers any gameplay or editing advantages over ZDoom.

Look, you do realize that if you just made a normal topic explaining why you think JDoom is better than other posts (instead of nameing your toic OMFG JDOOM OWNS and said that JDoom was ownage) and didn't sound like a Counter Strike kiddie/ graphics whore who can't bare to play games that, god forbid, have sprites instead of models, this would've never happened.

EDIT: Grammar

Envid said:

It doesnt take a veteran of the doomworld forums to see that your trying to create static where there wasnt any in the first place.

Ok, I apologise for making a smartass comment, I can at least do that much.

But the fact is, no matter how many maps you've made or ports you've tried, you still dont seem to understand whats going on under the hood. Half of the things you described are only possible with a boom compatible engine, which Jdoom is not. You can muck around trying to do it with XG if you want, but I doubt you will find the process enjoyable.

Good luck with your doom2.exe mirror by the way ;)

yeah, speaking as the author of void you would not be able to recreate it 100% in any port without a huge deal of work. Even if you ignore the slopes (which no other port supports) there's still the matter of the event driven scripting, color translations on the monsters (the 'hue shifts' are NOT new sprites, that is all done in ZDoom, just look at the contents of the WAD, the only new sprites are from the Hexen enemies), the addition of the actual Hexen enemies (for all Doomday's support of Hexen it does not share code between games and getting monsters from one game into another is nearly impossible, with ZDoom it requires one line of scripting and a few lines in a SNDINFO lump). There are also a bunch of other factors which I won't get into, but trust me, I've been editing for 8 years (though not always well).

But you're entirely welcome to port it to jDoom if you'd like.

On the subject of graphics, nobody here is denying that JDoom looks great. I think it's the best looking rendering, however it's highly hampered by the fact that all it can play are doom2.exe maps or JDoom maps (of which none really exist outside Doom64). Whenever I want to use jDoom I'm hard pressed to find a map to play in it most of the time.

Finally, it's pretty clear that most people here do NOT play Doom, in any form, for the graphics. We all know they look dated and pixelated, but that carries with it a certain charm. On top of that many find Doom a whole lot of fun to play and if you feel the need to pretty it up with jDoom then that's cool, but opengl ports are not the reason Doom has remained popular. Many people (myself included) like the software rendering engine.

It's just one of those things where you either get it or you don't, and you obviously don't.

And for the recond my specs are athlon xp2000, 512mb ram and a radeon 9600; capable of playing Far Cry with little difficulty, and I still choose to use ZDoom.

Cyb said:

And for the recond my specs are athlon xp2000, 512mb ram and a radeon 9600

Ooo, my specs too. Lets ask other people here what their pc specs are! Gosh, makes you wonder why we're all playing a knockoff third world feature starved game called Doom, eh?

lol Im not here to rip other people's work. Someone just made a comment it couldnt be done. As far as me not "getting" it. I doubt I have been deaf to what all you have said as far as the map editing qualities of the zdoom port allows.
In fact I have responded to quite a few things about the map you created, how to recreate certain effects, and acknowledged quite a few things I am not sure but have ideas on how to do.

As far as replacing monsters from hexen in to doom2 IVE DONE IT on regular doom2 via WINTEX. So dont tell me its impossible without a port. I remember when I first got into sprite trading and replaced the doom2 rocket launcher with the heretic phoenix staff (although the palette was a little off) it looked identicle.

I designed doom2 wads from 95-2000 and then got burnt out with pushing the editors at the time to the limits and the fact that other gaming engines were over running it with superior graphics and playability.

The same gameplay that made doom a winner and why everyone is editing the game now is because of how it was back in the day. I felt the same was effect was created with the new jdoom port and the allowing of models. Even though alot of them need work. The "potential" is what Im looking at.

I do agree I could not recreate 100% of it. Although I havnt looked at the plugin sdk scripting for the jdoom port either as well as certain effects that you create via a sprite i could perhaps do with the port's effects. eg:a 100% mirror texture.

I guess Ill have to repeat myself again since alot of people over look it. Im not downing zdoom at all. Jdoom owns and "visually" its there and if you dont remember go back to the beginning forums and find the screen shots I posted of in-game graphics.

Oh yea, and props to all the level editors out there. I know how much work is in to revamping a level and changing out sprites, dehacking, bug testing, and the frustrations of trying to push the limits of the editors that we have now.

chilvence said:

Ooo, my specs too. Lets ask other people here what their pc specs are! Gosh, makes you wonder why we're all playing a knockoff third world feature starved game called Doom, eh?

Check the forums on jdoom INCLUDING this one and say im making it up? Or are you just as one-sided as everyone else in here?

Try duplicating Hexen's Wraithverge attack using doom2.exe or JDoom.

Darkman 4 said:

Look, you do realize that if you just made a normal topic explaining why you think JDoom is better than other posts (instead of nameing your toic OMFG JDOOM OWNS and said that JDoom was ownage) and didn't sound like a Counter Strike kiddie/ graphics whore who can't bare to play games that, god forbid, have sprites instead of models, this would've never happened.

EDIT: Grammar

What game is being sold now with a 3d graphics engine that was produced within the last year utilizing "sprites"? I dont own counter strike, and being a kiddie is just showing that you really do have the iq god gave a carrot.
You one of those people who still play with wooden blocks/tinker toys and call it entertainment?

Ichor said:

Try duplicating Hexen's Wraithverge attack using doom2.exe or JDoom.

I played hexen only a little bit so im not familiar with that specific attack.

Envid said:

What game is being sold now with a 3d graphics engine that was produced within the last year utilizing "sprites"?

What does that have to do with anything?

no I don't mean giving doom monsters new sprites which happen to be from hexen, I mean actually putting the Hexen monsters into the game without replacing any existing Doom monsters.

also I never said you were knocking zdoom, but you did seem to be restating that jdoom looked great, and I'm meerly pointing out that such a fact doesn't matter to many people. I play jDoom myself, I think it's a great port, and nobody here is denying that it looks great (I see many posts staing the contrary). nobody here is denying that it looks better than ZDoom.

but when all is said and done you're just dressing up the same old Doom from 10 years ago in a pretty exterior and adding little else. that's all I'm saying.

Envid said:

I played hexen only a little bit so im not familiar with that specific attack.

His point is that you can't. You can only change the graphics, and the very very small bit of change DeHacked allowed. 95% of the things from Hexen you can't do in Doom. That's just how it is.

However, ZDoom allows the code to be intermingled just fine.

And also, if you're playing Doom because you want pretty models, you're playing the wrong game, sorry.

Nanami said:

If you think something is better just by graphics, you're wrong. You can't just keep coming out with a prettier and prettier Pong. I don't think jDoom offers any gameplay or editing advantages over ZDoom.

prettier and prettier pong?

Quake -pretty
Quake2 -prettier
Quake3 -even prettier

I guess ID software doesnt know what they are doing eh?

Sprites are used in many cases for weapon or spell effects, items, and even some decorations. I haven't played many games released within the year, but I do know of several recent games that do use 2D graphics:

Hexen 2
Quake
Quake 2
Alice
Baldur's Gate
Baldur's Gate 2
Diablo 2
Rune
Unreal
Half-Life

For those effects I mentioned, using 3D graphics isn't as efficient or practical as using 2D sprites.

Nanami said:

His point is that you can't. You can only change the graphics, and the very very small bit of change DeHacked allowed. 95% of the things from Hexen you can't do in Doom. That's just how it is.

However, ZDoom allows the code to be intermingled just fine.

And also, if you're playing Doom because you want pretty models, you're playing the wrong game, sorry.

The actual mechanics are difficult if not impossible to recreate....yes. But 95% of the graphics I saw in the void could be recreated just by replacing certain flats, sprites, and animations via Wintex.

I already went through the mechanics of what I thought were "cool" and "creative" and specified what is possible.

I didnt know that you were the one to tell me what game is "right" and "wrong" for me. Thanks jimminy cricket for the advice. Next time let me ask first?

Does Action Doom run with JDoom?

Scuba Steve said:

Does Action Doom run with JDoom?

I don't think JDoom can handle that much ACTION!

if jDoom can't run Action Doom, it's clearly not the most superior port.

She's right ya know.

Ichor said:

Sprites are used in many cases for weapon or spell effects, items, and even some decorations. I haven't played many games released within the year, but I do know of several recent games that do use 2D graphics:

Hexen 2
Quake
Quake 2
Alice
Baldur's Gate
Baldur's Gate 2
Diablo 2
Rune
Unreal
Half-Life

For those effects I mentioned, using 3D graphics isn't as efficient or practical as using 2D sprites.

Those arent very recent games.....
Unreal using sprites? for what? the hud? The menu?
Diablo2???? WTF IS THAT? Isnt even a 3d shooter
Quake 2 is comprised mostly of models not sprites you still need a 3d card for it to work via opengl

The developers of those games have already released/releasing sequals and none of them have been released within this past year.

And just so you know, the Wratithverge fires a single white blast of energy (looks like the Phoenix Rod shot). Then about a little distance off, it splits up into four separate ghosts, and each one (wailing loudly) seeks out any enemy that happens to be in the area and rips through them until it dies, where it then seeks out the next enemy, and so on until the ghosts run out of power and dissipate (but not all at once, they all run independently of each other). They can also pass through walls.

Envid said:

prettier and prettier pong?

Quake -pretty
Quake2 -prettier
Quake3 -even prettier

I guess ID software doesnt know what they are doing eh?

Quake-sucked(nice graphics,less stuff than doom)
Quake2-Half life pwnzerized it
Quake3-is cool,half_life is still pwnzerizing it (CS)

OMFG IdSISS gaY!!11lolol

No, Diablo 2 is not, and now that I think of it, I don't think Diablo 2 has any 3D graphics at all. Oh well... Anyway, I imagine that even Doom 3 might use sprites (lens flares are usually sprites as well) in a few places, but you'll be so involved in the game that you won't even notice them.

Anyway...

Envid said:

I guess ID software doesnt know what they are doing eh?

There are more differences than just the graphics between the Quake games.

Demigod said:

Quake-sucked(nice graphics,less stuff than doom)
Quake2-Half life pwnzerized it
Quake3-is cool,half_life is still pwnzerizing it (CS)

OMFG IdSISS gaY!!11lolol

Do your homework... In fact all the "editors" can read it. If amateur editing is what you consider something the "consumer" wants try this out.

http://www.3dactionplanet.com/features/q3dmhellchick/small/

nuff said?

Envid said:

What game is being sold now with a 3d graphics engine that was produced within the last year utilizing "sprites"? I dont own counter strike, and being a kiddie is just showing that you really do have the iq god gave a carrot.
You one of those people who still play with wooden blocks/tinker toys and call it entertainment?

Things just fly over your head don't they? It's pretty damn obvious that I'm talking about old games, not Far Cry or any other recent game. You should also realize that Wodden Blocks can be entertaining and are good stimulants to the imagination no matter how old you are.

Until I get some cold hard facts from you guys and "proof" because I like to see the stuff you guys are talking about. Not just listening to hear-say. If your going to say something based on your opinion dont compare it without evidence to back it up.

Darkman 4 said:

Things just fly over your head don't they? It's pretty damn obvious that I'm talking about old games, not Far Cry or any other recent game. You should also realize that Wodden Blocks can be entertaining and are good stimulants to the imagination no matter how old you are.

If a tinker toy is your thing, thats your own deal. In my opinion it was replaced by legos for a reason.

Envid said:

Until I get some cold hard facts from you guys and "proof" because I like to see the stuff you guys are talking about. Not just listening to hear-say. If your going to say something based on your opinion dont compare it without evidence to back it up.

Nanami said:

. . . ZDoom has scriptable enemies, weapons*, and artifacts*, slopes, high-res sprites, support for Heretic and Hexen and limited Strife support, the ability to pull any object from Doom/Heretic/Hexen/Strife into any game, extended ACS scripting, decal, key configure, decorative, and terrain lumps, an online up-to-date documentation, extended DeHacked and BEX, skyboxes, portals*, bots, and a large fanbase with many many maps made for ZDoom. . . .

Heh.