Who's Better? Hexen Vs Heretic

[Zaldron]

It's painfully underpowered if we're simply talking about its base damage, but the piercing capability of the projectile lets you dispatch mobs as fast as individually punching each enemy with the Fighter, if not faster. Just a matter of herding.

[Reaper978]

(On the other hand, skill 5 with the fighter or cleric is ridiculously unfair. Those chaos serpents, when fast, shoot constantly and you meet several of them before getting your first ranged weapon. Tackling them with the mace or the fists is... ouch. The mage is the only class that's remotely playable in that skill level, but then it is tedious x1000.)

I wouldn't say that. Even on skill 5, a fighter can strafe back and forth or in circles around the serpents while pummeling them. Indeed, getting hit multiple times by their fireballs does a lot of damage, but even when you get hit a lot there are plenty of quartz flasks and crystal vials around. And both the gauntlets and timon's axe have a lot more range than they initially appear to have, so you can stand pretty far away while strafing and dishing out the pain.

If I had to choose, I'd say the fighter is the strongest class of them all. In addition to what I mentioned above, he is super fast and has a high base armor class. It takes three punches to knock out an ettin, and then two axe slashes once you get the axe. The range issue only applies for the 7 portals, once you get to the shadow wood you get the hammer. Now you have ranged attacks.

I must say, however, that the fighter is pretty lame on the artistic side. The class name "Fighter" sucks. Does anyone else agree he should be called the "Warrior"? And why the hell is he this burly, macho wrestler dude? He looks like he just got done benching 650 pounds and taking steroids. And his gauntlets should be replaced with a short sword, like a Roman gladius.

I can't believe some people blame it for RARE errors with scripting and such.

In the wastes portion of the shadow wood hub, there is some strange passageway that does not open until you kill ALL the ettins on the level, including apparently those that warp in. I found this explanation in a walkthrough online, and if I hadn't found the walkthrough I would never have figured out what to do. Not an "error", but a pretty terrible design. The maps are difficult enough to find your way around.

[SFJake]

Reaper978 said:

In the wastes portion of the shadow wood hub, there is some strange passageway that does not open until you kill ALL the ettins on the level, including apparently those that warp in. I found this explanation in a walkthrough online, and if I hadn't found the walkthrough I would never have figured out what to do. Not an "error", but a pretty terrible design. The maps are difficult enough to find your way around.

There is? I don't remember that at all. And I played through Hexen at least 20 times through.

Also, I heard Hexen was unfair at skill 5 for fighter, but it is the most powerful class, so I find that odd to hear... the Hammer is definitively an extremely useful tool there, but you are forced through the Seven Portals without it.

But guess what, Hexen gives you a lot to work with, items are everywhere and flechettes are mighty useful. Using some quick strategy with the long range of the Axe also make good work of the serpents.

Its a fun game if you get to it... considering it was released in 1995, I say its an amazing piece, and the complaint I heard so far are just what you'd expect from such an old game that actually tries something different.

Why does anyone not applause Hexen for actually using more complex scripting events? Putting medieval, action and first person together? Puzzles? Multiple class choice?

Its like everyone just never heard of Hexen until pass 2000 and judge it as if it was released then. Some complaints on the game I heard here are valid, but I'm still annoyed at some of it. Doesn't deserve hate.

[Reaper978]

Here is the walkthrough:

http://www.raven-games.com/hxwalk/e2solve.php#switches

and here is the passage in question:

Go to the Wastelands (see the directions for getting the Horn Key). Go WEST to the place with the serpents on the opposite ledge. (I mixed up the directions here in previous versions... sorry! And thanks to Remy Horton who pointed it out to me). This time, take the RIGHT (NORTH) tunnel (you went to the south tunnel to get the Horn Key). Along the way, you'll see a grey tunnel on the left. If this is not open yet, go kill some ettins. I finally found out which ettins are responsible. You need to kill ettins around this level, and when you've killed enough of them, the grey tunnel will open. (I found this out by de-compiling the BEHAVIOR for this level).

I had cleared all the available areas (and was wandering around for some time) and this passage had not opened. So I read this and just ran around the map until I killed enough ettins to open the passage. This irritated me because I was trying to play through the game without a walkthrough, but I could not for the life of me figure out what to do. I was slightly inaccurate in my post above, apparently you have to kill a certain number of ettins to open the passage, not "all" of them.

Its a fun game if you get to it... considering it was released in 1995, I say its an amazing piece, and the complaint I heard so far are just what you'd expect from such an old game that actually tries something different.

Totally. I started playing this game pretty late, but I have put in some effort to get a handle on it. I think the levels and the progression of the game is a little bizarre, but that isn't necessarily a bad thing. The dark bishop is one of the most badass enemies I've ever seen in an FPS. Their demonic, unearthly chanting is really memorable and awesome.

I haven't actually completed the game yet, the farthest I got was the beginning of the Castle of Grief with the mage on difficulty five. I have since restarted with the fighter on difficulty five and I just got the hammer on the shadow wood hub. This game really becomes something else on the highest difficulty. The chaos serpents and wendigos are punishing as hell. The one part so far I have absolutely hated is in the seven portals when you are forced to warp into a room with three wendigos that blast the crap out of you... and after that the walls go down to reveal a horde of wendigos! This is doable on lower difficulty levels, but they do so much damage on difficulty five it is almost instant death when you enter the room. I used a lot of quartz flasks... that was harsh. I thought that part could have been toned down a bit (or the wendigos made weaker).

[SFJake]

Reaper978 said:

Here is the walkthrough:

http://www.raven-games.com/hxwalk/e2solve.php#switches

and here is the passage in question:


I had cleared all the available areas (and was wandering around for some time) and this passage had not opened. So I read this and just ran around the map until I killed enough ettins to open the passage. This irritated me because I was trying to play through the game without a walkthrough, but I could not for the life of me figure out what to do. I was slightly inaccurate in my post above, apparently you have to kill a certain number of ettins to open the passage, not "all" of them.

This looks true... Well, I never noticed, ever. I guess I always kill Ettins in my way, and considering how I generally play the map I always have enough Ettins killed by the time I go there.

Reaper978 said:

The one part so far I have absolutely hated is in the seven portals when you are forced to warp into a room with three wendigos that blast the crap out of you... and after that the walls go down to reveal a horde of wendigos! This is doable on lower difficulty levels, but they do so much damage on difficulty five it is almost instant death when you enter the room. I used a lot of quartz flasks... that was harsh. I thought that part could have been toned down a bit (or the wendigos made weaker).

That part is insane, true. Its not necessary for the game's progress though. This is only required if you want access to the secret level.

There really is no way to get through it well. You ARE going to waste a lot of potions here. This is the only place in Hexen and its expansion that is like that.

[Ichor]

SFJake said:

This is the only place in Hexen and its expansion that is like that.

Unless you hit the wrong switch in the spider's tomb (Locus Requiescat). However, once you do hit the right one, you can hit it as many times as you want for infinite combined mana. Fun.

[printz]

Hexen has a very easy to trigger game-stopper bug in the gibbet, which traps you if you kill the dragons in the heresiarch hall fast enough. And you can't save yourself if you play vanilla Hexen and hardest mode either.

Reaper978 said:

If I had to choose, I'd say the fighter is the strongest class of them all.

I'd say the cleric is the strongest class of them all. Only the mace sucks. The rest:
- the serpent staff is an effective machinegun that kills an ettin in just a few hits. It can be used in place of quartz flasks too. In comparison Timon's axe is melee, and the frost shards are underpowered and dumb.
- not sure about the firestorm. It's instant hit and does fair damage, but the other seem better.
- the wraithverge is easily better than the bloodscourge and quietus. No need to explain.
- a cleric flechette kills many more monsters than other flechettes.

[SFJake]

Fighter's axe does insane damage. As far as killing things fast, it does that much better than the Cleric can dream of.

Firestorm is good, but you can't go around and spam it. Limited range is annoying in specific places.

The reason I find the Fighter so good is that he uses less mana than the other for the same amount of damage. You can essentially use his axe all the time against anything but Ettin and even then, you won't come close to running out. I find myself having to use my Mace more often on Ettin and Centaur than the fighter if I want to keep mana, and doing so sucks because the Mace is horrible.

Still, the Serpent Staff is quite good. The cleric isn't bad, and is quite close to the fighter. Still, I say he's not as effective.


I also never consider the 4th weapon as a way to compare. 4th weapons are cheap, stupid and are just here to make sections of your choice super easy. I rarely ever use them and in the end, they are the same: they kill things too well.

[Reaper978]

I also never consider the 4th weapon as a way to compare. 4th weapons are cheap, stupid and are just here to make sections of your choice super easy. I rarely ever use them and in the end, they are the same: they kill things too well.

I don't know, they use a ton of mana so it's not like you can just whip it out and blow away the rest of the game with it.

[kristus]

printz said:

and the frost shards are underpowered and dumb.

So is your brain. (couldn't resist)
The Frost shards are about as powerful as the axe in melee. If the shards come out though, it lose a lot of power there.

I dunno if I can agree on the Wraithverge either really.
The only thing it really got going for itself that it's a weapon of zero skill. The only way you can fail with it is if you fire into a shielded centaur/slaughtaur/Heresiarch.
You can get some serious damage by letting the initial missile hit. Much like the BFG. But that's really where any skill involved ends.

The Bloodscourge is of similar character to the Sapphire wand. it'll rip through everything until it hits something that it can't hurt. If you just make sure to position yourself right before using it it'll do tremendous damage.

It also use less mana than the Wraithverge, which uses the most many of all the Weapons. (18/18) compared to the Bloodscourge (15/15) and the Queitus (14/14)

And seriously, how often do you really use the serpent staff's ability to drain?

[Ichor]

printz said:

Hexen has a very easy to trigger game-stopper bug in the gibbet, which traps you if you kill the dragons in the heresiarch hall fast enough. And you can't save yourself if you play vanilla Hexen and hardest mode either.

kristus said:

And seriously, how often do you really use the serpent staff's ability to drain?

Quite often, actually. If I'm a bit low on health, I'd find a wandering ettin, or centaur if I'm feeling lucky, and drain away.

[SFJake]

Thanks for the gibbet tip, I never actually knew the script was waiting for THREE chaos serpent exactly.

Its nice to know.

About the frost shards, they are weak. The Mage is slow, and vulnerable. Having to get close to unleash an attack thats powerful enough is bad. It also uses too much mana for what its worth, and its freezing death is more often a pain than anything else.

[Ichor]

Yeah, my guess is that they had three chaos serpents appear in all difficulties at first, and then wrote the script based on that. Then later on, some wise guy decided to add a fourth one for skills 4 and 5, and either didn't know about the script or forgot about it, and it was never changed.