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Ferk

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  1. Really? To me that was always the safest line. Freedoom never really had imps or cyber demons, at least not graphically (and the theme, at least in my mind, had always been about Lovecraftian creatures from the depths, although there has never been a clear story and lately there were some mixes of alien genetics stuff). But I do believe it could certainly do with less of the tech base theme of Doom. And I'd love to see Freedoom's SKAG 1337 replaced by something else entirely, maybe some eldrich artifact (in my opinion, there's too much of a techy scifi direction in the late years in Freedoom... but that's a different topic). If you aren't thinking graphically, but gameplay-wise, then thousands of games have imps and/or cyberdemons. Enemies shooting projectiles is something overused, even before Doom was a thing. And let's not forget that the gameplay is not really provided by the WAD, but by the engine, which they released as GPL. Freedoom just gives you a WAD-packed collection of assets. You can load it in an engine with different gameplay that makes cyber demons fly and attack by stumping on you, turns imps into static decoration while running the entire game in an isometric view. The Freedoom project does not dictate any gameplay in particular, it's just graphics and map assets. If anything, it's the last line the one that might be "damning" depending on how you interpret it when he mentions "similary looking original art". Specially if you think of the textures (although I doubt he meant anything else than the characters and other elements that might be distinctive of Doom and thus can be considered part of their trademark, otherwise I'm sure I can find examples in other games of some similary looking textures). He also made the remark of them being "obligated to defend our trademarks and copyrights", so I dare to say that his response was more of a company policy kind of thing. The fact that he actually did say before that we'll get their blessings if we actually do not step into their Intellectual Property does tell me that he would be totally fine with Freedoom as long as it's legal. But the question of whether is really legal or not is not something that the old Id Software can answer anyway, you'd need to ask a judge if it ever goes on trial (which is something that doesn't even depend on them anymore). My question was not so much about the legal aspects. I was curious about their personal opinion, their morals. Recently someone mentioned that it's possible the members of the old Id Software team might actually be angry at how Freedoom is allowing the engine to be used without owning the official IWAD. And that there's an unwritten rule that says that you should only run PWADs (or even TC's) if you actually own the Doom IWAD, to be respectful to the original devs. So I wanted to know if there's any evidence of the Id Software team actually being unhappy about the perspective of it being possible for something like Freedoom to exist (provided it doesn't use any "similary looking original art").
  2. I've noticed that while the legal standing of the project is objectively clear, there are some doubts in the Doom community regarding Freedoom being something the Id Software team (and the original one in particular) might not be very happy with. Their opinion bears importance beyond just following the law. I was told there are even some source ports that out of respect run checksums on the IWAD and they won't run if it isn't one of the ones supported by Id (so it won't work with Freedoom as the IWAD by itself). So it would be great if we could obtain the blessing for this project from the original Doom devs, and if we do, maybe it's something that could be added to the Freedoom website. I know they no longer work for Id Software anymore, but that's more of a reason to be able to ask them for their opinion without them having to filter through company policy. It would be their personal opinion, in no way associated to current Id Software direction. I know that long time ago there was an email exchange with John Carmack about the legal terms, and his response was uploaded in the following link: https://soulsphere.org/random/carmack_reply.txt I believe this exchange happened before Freedoom was really a thing. Do we have more information on this? or a more recent opinion tailored to Freedoom, now that it's actually a thing? Is there any further evidence about any of the other members of the team being ok with Freedoom? Has John Romero made any statements about this project? I said it before but one of the main reasons the original Id Software team deserves in my opinion a huge amount of respect and admiration is the fact that they opened up to the community their entire engine, allowing complete freedom to integrate it in your own projects in whichever way you'd want, no strings attached. This certainly honors them and I would not be into classic Doom so much if it wasn't because of this. So I'd be disappointed if it was the case that they aren't ok with people being able to play Freedoom without owning a paid copy of Doom.
  3. Ferk

    Improving player front walk animation

    Ok, I think this is a bit more acceptable:
  4. Ferk

    Doom in the browser

    I agree. Even though I said illegal I should have said "iffy" (but I couldn't find a more serious word). Whether it's truly illegal would have to be studied in a case-by-case basis. My concern is precisely that nobody would care for this, so if there was such a Cease & Desist WADs would be taken down regardless, nobody is gonna care to pay a lawyer. Having its legality be in question is already enough to take it down when challenged. Yes, I agree. I even said that already in my first 3 comments, I think. My whole point is the fact that they are the ones in shaky territory, Freedoom is actually the least "iffy" of the bunch.
  5. Ferk

    Doom in the browser

    This is a reason to stop using those modified assets, not a reason to not use Freedoom. What is illegal is the PWAD. You are always gonna be able to download and play that PWAD with free assets in your custom engine (even if it's other TC than Freedoom, there are many available that are Freeware, even if not BSD), no matter how many protections and DRM walls you might add, your PWAD is not safe. If it was true that the original Id Software team expects us to follow this "unwritten rule" I would be thoroughly disappointed at them. This morality is making money for Bethesda for work they did not do, limiting the freedom of the community and encouraging a "Sword of Damocles" to be hanging above the modder's head.
  6. Ferk

    Doom in the browser

    Just because you have the sprite doesn't mean you are allowed to distribute a modified version of the sprite. You might be able to do this in very specific instances, like when using only one or two sprites in an ironic context (and even in that case, you wouldn't need the IWAD for it to be legal). But PWADs that do this extensively are indeed in legally questionable ground, it does not matter if you own the IWAD or not. Again, I made before the analogy with Disney movies. Can you legally download custom movie clips that use Disney characters, story and assets whenever you own the DVD of the movie? Disney lawyers would disagree. Just because so far Bethesda has been cool about it doesn't mean it's legal. If they released a license saying that it's allowed to do so, then that would be different. Note that I'm only talking about including modified assets. This has nothing to do with PWADs that only include levels and that all their content is 100% made by the creator or based on permissively licensed works. Freedoom (or freely licensed works) is actually the only legal way to reuse/modify assets. You can include modified Freedoom's assets as much as you want in your PWADs, you'll be safe to distribute it. If more WADs were based on Freedoom and more focus was put on it to improve it, we would have a truly free and open community. As it stands, however, a lot of it is in shaky legal ground.
  7. Ferk

    Doom in the browser

    You are also making assumptions when you say they would be angry. Your moral is based on that assumption, what I'm trying to convey is that it's no less valid than assuming the opposite. If your moral is based on making Id Software happy, what if it turns out that the fact Freedoom is a thing you can use if you don't own the game might actually make them happy? I'm sorry. It was not meant as something offensive. I'm 100% honest when I say that It was meant to reflect on the analogy of both arguments being opinions about what you and I might feel. Feelings and opinions are subjective and you can find different ways to look at the same thing from different eyes. My point was that the only thing that is objective is the legality of it, not the morality based on assumptions. And this is why after saying that, I've only talked about the legality of things. Of course it's true that "you've always been able to do mods" that modify the assets (and patching the engine is legal now). But having the IWAD is not a justification for sharing modified assets of the game in your mod. You can do it, but it's not legal. It's illegal no matter how nice and cool Id Software has been about it. They did not give you a written license saying that you are allowed to do it, so in the eyes of the law it's not allowed. And if tomorrow Bethesda decides they want to sue, they can sue just like Disney sues when someone does the analogous thing with a movie (and I was surprised how you apply such different logic from Disney to Bethesda, even though we are talking about the same concept). Technically, you are not playing Doom (the game) if you play Freedoom. You are playing the Doom engine, which Id software released as GPL, but not with its assets (which are the ones that are still covered by Bethesda's IP). Id Software actually did give everyone a written license saying they can use the engine (not the assets), this license (GPL) irrevocably hands the engine to the community to use as they please. It would have made no sense for them to give this license and then be angry about it. They could have perfectly released it under a license that only allows you to use the code together with their assets, or as long as you own a legal copy Doom. They didn't, they chose to allow people to make their own games with it. This honors them. And I would not be in this Forum, or praising them, if it wasn't because of that. For my own moral reasons (I do celebrate things free as in freedom because it's the most beneficial for the community), Doom would have died long ago to me had they used a license that is tied to the IWAD and didn't allow standalone TC to be made and distributed for free. And if I ever find a statement from the original Id Software team saying that they are angry and mad, that they didn't really intend to grant GPL license and they didn't know what they were doing, I would lose a big chunk of the huge respect and admiration I have for them. PD: Sorry, meapingapple, that I'm back to discussing kb1's topic, but I believe it's important to clarify on the legality of Freedoom and defend the accusation of it being "iffy". If need be, the topic could be split.
  8. Ferk

    Improving player front walk animation

    I'm now trying to improve the back animation next. But that one is more messed up than I thought, I don't even understand what the shoulders are trying to do here..... I also made it the same size as the front animation, for some reason the savior of humanity shrinks when you look at him from behind. I'll continue later and see how can I further improve it.
  9. Ferk

    Improving player front walk animation

    I've made it so it actually looks like he's holding the gun rather than just punching it. And I've tweaked a bit the helmet and some minor details. The gif has some weird black pixels suddenly, but it just seems to be caused by the gif conversion (too bad the forum does not accept webp).
  10. Ferk

    Doom in the browser

    In Europe, with the recent changes in the law, they are actually requiring websites with user-submitted content to provide pre-filters for this type of infringements. So acting by request might even not be enough if you are automating the submission. Although I haven't seen it being enforced so far. I know this may not be your goal.. but I honestly think that the Doom community would benefit from a curated database of freely licensed and clean PWADs (handpicked rather than user-provided). It could be an interesting sub-project for Freedoom. In Freedoom's Github there's already an issue about offering a webplayer. Even if the curated PWAD selection might be very small, it might be possible to allow for it to accept a PWAD URL and load PWADs from idgames, doomworld and so. Perhaps even have a bookmarklet to play the selected doomworld PWAD in Freedoom's webplayer with the click of a mouse.
  11. Ferk

    Doom in the browser

    There's a reason he did not do it in 1993. They only made the code available when they reached a point that they wouldn't be hurt / angry by any use of it by the competition (not even a wildly successful one). Not only it wouldn't angry them, but I'm sure they would be proud if a new community-driven project rises from the ashes of their creation. If I was in their place it would indeed make me proud . In that sense, Freedoom is not only legal, but something that the original creators might even be happy about (they all left the company so they don't even profit from Doom sales anymore, only from its notoriety). If you think about it along those terms, doesn't it change how it looks, even a little bit? Maybe Bethesda's money-making executives have a different opinion than the original Id Software team, but that does not matter now, it doesn't even matter how do we look at it. The only thing that matters is that it's in fact legal. And Freedoom being legal is actually more than what I can say about most WADs with custom graphics. Are you sure that owning Id's IWAD allows someone to rip its graphics, modify them and "legally" distribute them for fellow IWAD owners to use? I don't think owning the IWAD gives you power over Bethesda's IP. Imagine if someone made a custom movie out of the characters of a particular Disney movie and told people that it's ok to distribute it for free as long as they buy the original DVD. Disney lawyers have freaked out for much less than that. You have the right to privately do your own modifications and keep them to yourself, but I do believe that sharing a modification of content covered under IP of Bethesda is not legal, whether you own a legal copy of the IWAD or not. I'm sure at Bethesda they don't want to shoot themselves in the foot by shutting down the creative drive of the Doom community, for the sake of their own public image, but I believe they would be in their legal right to do so. Freedoom is, actually, the legal alternative, since it does not use Id Software characters, and thus in no way is it under a "subset" of Doom's copyright. All those WADs that use modified Doom content on the other hand, are indeed a bit iffy.
  12. Ferk

    Tweaking Freedoom guy's face

    I noticed your PR for the new face seems to be stuck in limbo: https://github.com/freedoom/freedoom/pull/542 It'd be a pity to leave it at that. If you don't mind, I could take the hair and some of the eye expression from your art and improve the current face to reach a compromise without losing the expressiveness of the old one:
  13. The previous animation always looked to me like he was holding his pee. So I tried to improve it. I also reduced a bit the sudden swing with the weapon that it does in the middle of the walk. I only changed the front animation, which imho was the worst of the lot. The side views are not as bad, at least in those the legs are set apart. Before After: PR: https://github.com/freedoom/freedoom/pull/546
  14. Ferk

    Doom Eternal won't have Snapmap

    Exactly. People generally underestimate the time, work and effort in making it. This is why even with proper modding tools it's doubtful there would be much of a modding scene with an ecosystem of mapsets, etc. At most, it'd be a handful of unfinished projects or slight modifications in weapons/gameplay. I'd rather see that time being invested in innovative classic Doom wads making use of the features in the modern source ports, instead of spending the rest of my life waiting for a single worthy Doom Eternal mapset. The more modern AAA engine of Doom Eternal is not a reason enough, not only it'd be closed source and your work would be tied to Bethesda irreversibly, but also by the time you finish your mapset there will be a better engine in the newest Doom 2053 VR Ultimate Immortal Edition and most of the modding community would have moved on.
  15. Ferk

    Freedoom video reviews

    I've already commented in the youtube videos (and subscribed :P). I get that you wanted to make a bit of fun out of the look of the graphics for entertainment purposes (after all, the first video is in the "Comedy" category) but the thing is that you went on to attack some of the sprites that actually do look good (pinky, cacodemon and imp)... and yet you said nothing about most of those that are placeholders and generally agreed on to be in need of replacement, like the wolfenstein soldier, the pain elemental or the out-of-place-style of the Arch-vile (maybe you only played phase 1?) I'd even have taken criticism for the mancubus rather than for the cacodemon. To someone who does know the project it might feel like your criticism is a bit misplaced. I would definitely like to see the walking animation of the player sprite and zombies improved, you could have made a joke about how the player moves its legs like he needs to go to the toilet and I'm sure me and others would have laugh and agreed, it would have been a specific detail to improve on, but the "9 year old" and "can't draw" thing was not constructive and felt kinda uncalled for. And I agree the arachnotron looks very bad, although saying that a kid would come up with that is neither descriptive nor accurate (kids have better imagination than that... :P). It was already hard enough to have any graphics at all to use for that monster so I'm quite thankful to have at least something even if it does look bad (if anyone can offer a better replacement I have no doubt it will be accepted in a heartbeat, so long as it's not copyright infringing). It would be great if you could take some time in the video to encourage contributors, because in the end Freedoom is what we make of it. If someone sees a low hanging fruit, they can submit their art and get their work immortalized by being part of the project. In general, Freedoom's graphics do grow on you once you get used to them, even with their flaws. Nowadays Freedoom is pretty complete and you can actually fully play it without having any big black boxes moving around, which was the biggest problem with it for the longest time. It's already quite an achievement in and of itself that you can totally play WADs with it replacing Doom with completely free (BSD) graphics. Sadly it's very hard to find art that is truly free as in freedom, all of the sprites from realm667.com that you've shown in your video are not free and possibly not legal (except for one I spotted when you were quickly scrolling that actually was used in Blasphemer, I think), they are all derivatives from either Doom or other games. The project is in need of contributions. Personally, I'd enjoy something like that. Imho, the thing with Fredoom style is that there's a tendency in the last years to abandon the direction of demonic dark magic and attempt to do a more alien sci-fi theme. I've said it before, but I'm of the opinion that you can do hellish themes without copying Doom (and eldritch deformities, bloodlusty worms from the dephs or strange flying horned creatures with tentacles do actually seem ok and hellish for me)... just as long you don't spoil it by introducing robots or cyborgs for sprites that originally weren't meant to show technology, because it would be out of place in medieval/gothic themed wads.
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