NO MORE 3D CURSED MODELS FOR DOOM

[Koko Ricky]

17 hours ago, TerryMastermind said:

I personally don't like voxels, they just don't carry the same detail and charm as flat sprites - the added depth breaks the immersion if you know what I mean, case in point:

 

No, I don't know what you mean. At all. Voxels only add immersion for me since now I can see everything from every perspective. 

[Darkcrafter07]

You know, I was playing with Quake models and stretched zombieman on the soldier model in photoshop, then hooked up Noesis64 to see what it looks like...

 

 

[BaianãoDoido]

Shotgun Guy in progress, the best way to solve all this problems mentioned is made doom in unity open source who anyone can edit with minimum knowledge (I don't know if this is possible)

[BaianãoDoido]

[TerryMastermind]

On 12/12/2023 at 9:34 PM, TerryMastermind said:

I agree that polygon models are an ill-fit for classic doom. However, flat sprites look bad at extreme vertical angles with OpenGL rendering, a solution that's coherent with doom's aesthetic would be to draw different sprites when viewed from different vertical angles. Hopefully there's someone passionate enough to code this up, I'm not bothered enough to parse through gzdoom's github. 

Nvm this has already been done: https://forum.zdoom.org/viewtopic.php?f=105&t=61903 

[BaianãoDoido]

I need help for this code animation, have look for in every code but don't find animation frame state for dead somebody can help me ? (curiosity in my country have new drug called k9 lol the effects is similar like this in video) 

 

[OniriA]

To be real with you, (with the exception of items and weapons) 3D models based on player and enemy sprites always end up looking cursed in Classic Doom. No matter the effort or intention.

[Darkcrafter07]

Nah, if done doomish way, they look good. See how great that Cheelo voxel pack is. The thing I don't like is that they're voxel, they're too resource hungry and they're blocky and you can't upscale their texture if you will. As soon as I'm finished with upscaling regular Doom sprites I'm getting on polygonizing Cheelo efforts.

 

Believe it or not but converting one of Cheelo voxels to a low poly was super simple. I just grabbed a copy of Noesis64, converted the kvx to obj and imported it in 3ds max, merged all vertices within 0,1 range (default) and applied "Relax" modifier to smooth it out, then "Multires" modifier to trim it to 1200 polygons like Quake models had. Then retopology plugin to 8000 quads, then multires again (800 polygons). The only thing I don't know how to do is how to perform texture transfering from a voxel to the polygon model. If anybody know the software to do it please let me know.

 

Oh yeah, I removed gun from the playa1 hands just to see how it is, the most tedious task was closing the holes but it's something quiete normal day in working with such models.

 

Totally possible to be done, thanks to Cheelo efforts again.

[BaianãoDoido]

[BaianãoDoido]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f93ZFe1SYOk 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K06O3vH0_sk

[TheUltimateDoomer666]

2 hours ago, BaianãoDoido said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f93ZFe1SYOk 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K06O3vH0_sk

Those videos are private.

[BaianãoDoido]

[Koko Ricky]

I get the feeling OP is going to ignore literally every single constructive criticism offered in this thread and release an inconsistent and poorly animated mod. I look forward to testing it.

[DoomGappy]

18 hours ago, BaianãoDoido said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f93ZFe1SYOk 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K06O3vH0_sk

why are they dancing

[rzh]

1 hour ago, Koko Ricky said:

literally every single constructive criticism offered in this thread

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1 hour ago, Koko Ricky said:

release an inconsistent and poorly animated mod. I look forward to testing it.

On 12/11/2023 at 6:07 AM, Koko Ricky said:

What artistic purpose does this serve?

I don't care for models either, but your posts seem passive-aggressive and don't come off as constructive at all. I would assume that is not how you intend them to be interpreted. However, re-reading your posts once or twice made "constructive criticism" have the same effect on my brain as when I'm hearing "special military operation".

But speaking of purpose, I'm rather curious as to why do you seem to imply that OP putting in effort in order to create something they'd enjoy is somehow a waste of time, but you offering constructive criticism to something you deem DOOM™ed to fail isn't.

[insanoflex312]

models in Doom, imo, can work if the animation is jittery like in Quake. I mean, theres Quake, after all, and no one complains about the models in that game. If people think models wouldnt work in Doom because of the low detail environments they'd be in, uh, have you played any mods created past 1998?

 

But yes, for the love of gawd, please work on the animations before making new models

[BaianãoDoido]

1 hour ago, Koko Ricky said:

I get the feeling OP is going to ignore literally every single constructive criticism offered in this thread and release an inconsistent and poorly animated mod. I look forward to testing it.

I try absorb all constructive critics but i can't make miracle, I dedicated 3 hours of my free time day, if someone can help with scripts my discord is open for everyone, and i don't will release mod soon 

[BaianãoDoido]

1 hour ago, DoomGappy said:

why are they dancing

in doom does exist animation idle :(

[DoomGappy]

7 minutes ago, BaianãoDoido said:

in doom does exist animation idle :(

I have no idea how you are doing the models but can't the idle animation be like them in place just breathing?

[Koko Ricky]

15 hours ago, rzh said:

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I don't care for models either, but your posts seem passive-aggressive and don't come off as constructive at all. I would assume that is not how you intend them to be interpreted. However, re-reading your posts once or twice made "constructive criticism" have the same effect on my brain as when I'm hearing "special military operation".

But speaking of purpose, I'm rather curious as to why do you seem to imply that OP putting in effort in order to create something they'd enjoy is somehow a waste of time, but you offering constructive criticism to something you deem DOOM™ed to fail isn't.

I think OP is really talented, and could potentially forge a career doing 3D modeling. They look good and with a bit of tweaking, the animation will be fine. However, I will admit that I think it's a  clash of styles that hurts the game's look and feel. I thought we had learned 20 years ago this doesn't work. But I would not want to discourage OP, as that's not fair, so I'll politely reign it in. 

Edited December 25, 2023 by Koko Ricky

[jmpt16]

>non cursed 3d doom models

No such thing.

[JoJo_BadDoom]

All doom models are cursed in some way, in my opinion. That's why I like them

[Darkcrafter07]

Here's a bit of continuation on polygonizing Cheelo voxels, I used Meshroom software this time to perform a photogrammetry straight out of Noesis64 window, made a couple of screenshots from all the sides, then it made an interesting result, some problems are yet to be solved. Attention, linear filtered Cheelo voxels!

 

 

Playa_rough_model.zip

Edited December 25, 2023 by Darkcrafter07

[jmpt16]

14 hours ago, Darkcrafter07 said:

he's melting

[DaliVinci]

Those are great, buuuut you know how you can make 'em better? Base them off the original sculptures made by Gregor Punchatz and the pewter miniatures produced by Reaper Miniatures. They will add a whole another layer of authenticity. Also, these look phenomenal.

On 12/25/2023 at 12:53 AM, BaianãoDoido said:

 

[TheMagicMushroomMan]

You obviously have good skill in modeling, but I'll be real: these don't look good to me in the game, and there's only a snowball's chance in hell that it will ever look good. The animation is so far off that these could be the most beautiful 3D models on the planet, and it would still look bad. 3D models of the enemies just do not work. I think that good-looking 3D weapons are possible, but everyone wants to do the monsters for some reason. Unless you have a shit ton of time, and probably money too so you can hire a miracle worker to bless the models with animation, it's still gonna be "cursed". I know it's harsh, but look at the models ingame, in action - it isn't up to par for any game, let alone a game like DOOM where the models will inevitably clash with everything else. Voxel DOOM is as close as we're going to get, and even that has subjective problems (no matter how accurate the voxels are, much of it looks silly being able to see the enemies in 3D - the proportions now look all out of whack - the Pinky looks ridiculous when it bites, for example).

 

The game was designed specifically for sprites. Not only is it part of its core technical identity, it's part of its art style. The game was designed to look good with sprites. 3D enemies will always look off. There's nothing that can be done to fix that. I think people like you would be better off using these models in another engine to create your own "DOOM" game. The animation is still nowhere near par, but at least they won't look so out of place like they do here.

 

Please understand that I'm just giving my honest opinion, I don't think you should give up if you enjoy doing this. And you do have talent. I just think that you're applying your talent to a field where it is never going to be appreciated, because the field does not call for your kind of talent. 3D enemies in DOOM is like replacing the original soundtrack with big band renditions of the songs - it requires talent, and it might sound good on its own, but will always be out of place no matter how good it is. 

[Darkcrafter07]

With such an ideas guy like me they come to my head again. There's a guy who made a custom 3d engine and I forgot the name it's called but it pre-rendered a 3D model into sprites and did it so that they had smooth rotations and even rendered from a bit below and above. That looked spritish and still like if artists made thousands of variations, the only drawback is the memory consumption it has and perhaps, we want more than just center+up+down.

 

I think there's another way on doing so - interrupted 3d models rendering. What I mean by this is if models would only be rasterized a block map cell to cell but rescaled via interpolation while player's camera moving, e.g. getting bigger or smaller, depending on a distance between those grid cells.

 

How will it affect the feeling of depth to the world? Will it make models look less cursed? Is this even possible after all?

[Grieferus]

On 12/27/2023 at 5:25 AM, TheMagicMushroomMan said:

You obviously have good skill in modeling, but I'll be real: these don't look good to me in the game, and there's only a snowball's chance in hell that it will ever look good. The animation is so far off that these could be the most beautiful 3D models on the planet, and it would still look bad. 3D models of the enemies just do not work. I think that good-looking 3D weapons are possible, but everyone wants to do the monsters for some reason. Unless you have a shit ton of time, and probably money too so you can hire a miracle worker to bless the models with animation, it's still gonna be "cursed". I know it's harsh, but look at the models ingame, in action - it isn't up to par for any game, let alone a game like DOOM where the models will inevitably clash with everything else. Voxel DOOM is as close as we're going to get, and even that has subjective problems (no matter how accurate the voxels are, much of it looks silly being able to see the enemies in 3D - the proportions now look all out of whack - the Pinky looks ridiculous when it bites, for example).

 

The game was designed specifically for sprites. Not only is it part of its core technical identity, it's part of its art style. The game was designed to look good with sprites. 3D enemies will always look off. There's nothing that can be done to fix that. I think people like you would be better off using these models in another engine to create your own "DOOM" game. The animation is still nowhere near par, but at least they won't look so out of place like they do here.

 

Please understand that I'm just giving my honest opinion, I don't think you should give up if you enjoy doing this. And you do have talent. I just think that you're applying your talent to a field where it is never going to be appreciated, because the field does not call for your kind of talent. 3D enemies in DOOM is like replacing the original soundtrack with big band renditions of the songs - it requires talent, and it might sound good on its own, but will always be out of place no matter how good it is. 

While I wholeheartedly agree with you, I think you should let him cook. I want to see an entire bestiary made by him.

Besides, we can always turn these models into sprites, and I think they'd look fantastic.

[Grieferus]

@BaianãoDoido I'm desperate to see an entire bestiary by you.

[TheMagicMushroomMan]

13 hours ago, Grieferus said:

While I wholeheartedly agree with you, I think you should let him cook. I want to see an entire bestiary made by him.

Besides, we can always turn these models into sprites, and I think they'd look fantastic.

I agree completely, that's why I said he shouldn't give up on it if he enjoys it. The only time I'd tell someone to stop working on something is when you have a newbie mapper with an in-progress map that's broken or something. People should make things like this first and foremost because they enjoy it, not to make other people happy. In the end, it makes for a better product and everyone else will enjoy it more.

 

Also, I have a question/suggestion, sorry if it seems like I'm being nosy or anything:

 

Why is it that people who are into modeling, and obviously knowledgeable about modeling, always want to recreate the stock Doom enemies? Why not create your own monsters/objects/weapons/whatever so they can be used as custom content? There are ways to make interesting 3D modeled enemies that actually work and look good, but it seems rare. For example, you could create a statue with a gaping mouth that could shoot fireballs or something, or a kind of turret, or something along those lines (probably more creative than those examples though) that would require little animation (or even none at all). You could even just create decorations or something.

 

Is there some reason why this doesn't ever seem to happen? Are people just not interested/stuck on the stock monsters idea? Does it happen and I'm just not seeing it? I'm aware of some wads with 3D models like that PC-frying tower in Eviternity, but it seems to me that it's untapped potential that's being used to attempt to recreate the original demons instead. And please realize I'm not saying this to insinuate that OP or anyone else should be doing anything other than what they enjoy doing, I'm not saying anyone owes anything to the community or any of that, I'm just curious. My knowledge of Doom and all that stuff on a technical level is below par for this place so I'm probably just ignorant and missing something.