Perfected vs Overthinked

So, I really want to play Doom 3, the only Doom I have not played, and I heard that without mods, it is not that great...

I learned that Perfected Doom 3 and Overthinked Doom 3 are the main 2 mods that change the game, but do not add or really overhaul the setting of the game.

So, which mod i better or worse than the other?

The only decent graphic mod for Doom 3 is redux (for me) all other mods are just shinny non-sense (like absolute HD, sikk mod) or general nonsense (like Perfected).

Hi all,

As an Overthinked mod creator I feel kind'a obligated to put my two cents in ;)

To get it out of the way first: both mods feature enhanced graphics and hi-res textures, being different just in a few key areas - mainly the look of some monsters.

Audio design is a bit different, too.

However, the most important difference between Overthinked and Perfected is, in my opinion, the gameplay itself.

Perfected features a "power fantasy" kind of approach; you're given massively overpowered weapons, dual wielding, three or four alt-fire modes for each weapon and so on, and so on... It's similar to Project Brutality for Brutal DooM in some aspects, if you catch my drift. 

Thing is - you either love it or you hate it. AFAIK Perfected mod receives equally much praise and criticism alike, and there's almost nothing between one-star and ten-star ratings. Almost like in the political spectrum ;) 

The novel gameplay mechanics are certainly interesting, but many folks point out the balancing problems and the fact that "power fantasy" gameplay doesn't really fit the third DooM game all that well. Also, many of the featured gimmicks - which you're supposed to master in order to have a good time - are not that straightforward or clear to grasp (which, I believe, Doommarine_maxi summarised above as being "general nonsense"). 

Personally, PD3 it's not my cup of tea. But the team behind the project are very competent people and I think that they've achieved something amazing nevertheless. Very high rate on ModDB backed by 145 votes is a testament to that, and I believe that PD3 popularity is well deserved.

If you like dynamic action or you just wan't to check out what idTech4 engine is capable of, you shouldn't be disappointed. Also, I believe that some technological solutions presented in PD3 will serve as a base for most (if not all) future DooM 3 modifications, so it's somewhat of a milestone for idTech4 modding scene, trumped only by the SikkMod (IMHO). 

Overthinked takes a 180 degrees turn in terms of design. You should expect limited ammo supply, more near-death scenarios, slow manual healing, and so on...

In my opinion original DooM 3 was designed to be first and foremost a showcase for the idTech4 engine and it's lighting system.

One one hand, guys at id company wanted the players to take their time and enjoy the dynamic lights and interactive panels; a goal which they wanted to achieve via slower shootouts in tight corridors against lesser number of enemies. At the same time they wanted to cater to the old-school DooM I and II fanbase who wanted fast-paced action and some good 'ol ultra violence.

Too bad that somewhere in the process both approaches clashed together resulting in a rather underwhelming experience. The shooting wasn't really all that exciting (the shotgun, ugh! How could they break such a hallmark weapon so badly?!), and there wasn't enough tension for the horror elements to kick in. As a result we've got a product that worked excellent as a tech demo, while it was helluva boring as an actual game.

Overthinked is an attempt to fix it by tipping the balance in favour of the survival-horror approach. DooM 3 was never a scary game, but it plants the seed of a slow burning paranoia. OD3 tries to enhance this feeling.

As for the complaints I've received, the most common one is much higher difficulty. With the latest release I've rebalanced some aspects of combat, so the difficulty curve should be much smoother now, at least in principle. But it's still harder than the vanilla game.

Some people also don't seem to like "realistic reloading" mechanics. I've tweaked this one a bit too for bullet-based weapons, but it's still present, so be aware.

Most importantly: this mod rewards more cautious gameplay and some folks complained about not being able to rush-in Rambo-style, dooming everything out of existence. You're supposed to take your time, bunker somewhere safe and listen to audio logs or read emails (some of which allow the player to figure out various gameplay mechanics), stroll around while looking for secret areas... If you're not into this kind of thing, obviously you'll be bored as hell ;)   

To sum things up a bit: 

- Perfected: insane, non-stop havoc action.

- Overthinked: slow, tense fight for survival. 

Shoving away my obvious bias towards my own mod, I genuinely think that Overthinked is more suitable for the first playthrough, though.

On the other hand, I had a great time with Perfected Resurrection of Evil. I'd even go as far as to say that PD3 should receive it's very own map-pack, as the mod is definitely underutilised in the regular D3 campaign. 

In the end, you should try both mods and see which one suits your gameplay style better. They're both free, after all. 

I hope I've given an objective opinion. Let me know what you guys think. Also - maybe VGames has a take on that? Are you here somewhere, buddy? ;)

Cheers!  

0x29a

Edit: If you want to play something as close to vanilla as possible, while having more modern graphics and better audio design, go for the Redux mod. It's really good in this aspect.

On 6/13/2018 at 6:04 PM, 0x29a said:

Hi all,

As an Overthinked mod creator I feel kind'a obligated to put my two cents in ;)

To get it out of the way first: both mods feature enhanced graphics and hi-res textures, being different just in a few key areas - mainly the look of some monsters.

Audio design is a bit different, too.

However, the most important difference between Overthinked and Perfected is, in my opinion, the gameplay itself.

 

Perfected features a "power fantasy" kind of approach; you're given massively overpowered weapons, dual wielding, three or four alt-fire modes for each weapon and so on, and so on... It's similar to Project Brutality for Brutal DooM in some aspects, if you catch my drift. 

Thing is - you either love it or you hate it. AFAIK Perfected mod receives equally much praise and criticism alike, and there's almost nothing between one-star and ten-star ratings. Almost like in the political spectrum ;) 

The novel gameplay mechanics are certainly interesting, but many folks point out the balancing problems and the fact that "power fantasy" gameplay doesn't really fit the third DooM game all that well. Also, many of the featured gimmicks - which you're supposed to master in order to have a good time - are not that straightforward or clear to grasp (which, I believe, Doommarine_maxi summarised above as being "general nonsense"). 

Personally, PD3 it's not my cup of tea. But the team behind the project are very competent people and I think that they've achieved something amazing nevertheless. Very high rate on ModDB backed by 145 votes is a testament to that, and I believe that PD3 popularity is well deserved.

If you like dynamic action or you just wan't to check out what idTech4 engine is capable of, you shouldn't be disappointed. Also, I believe that some technological solutions presented in PD3 will serve as a base for most (if not all) future DooM 3 modifications, so it's somewhat of a milestone for idTech4 modding scene, trumped only by the SikkMod (IMHO). 

 

Overthinked takes a 180 degrees turn in terms of design. You should expect limited ammo supply, more near-death scenarios, slow manual healing, and so on...

In my opinion original DooM 3 was designed to be first and foremost a showcase for the idTech4 engine and it's lighting system.

One one hand, guys at id company wanted the players to take their time and enjoy the dynamic lights and interactive panels; a goal which they wanted to achieve via slower shootouts in tight corridors against lesser number of enemies. At the same time they wanted to cater to the old-school DooM I and II fanbase who wanted fast-paced action and some good 'ol ultra violence.

Too bad that somewhere in the process both approaches clashed together resulting in a rather underwhelming experience. The shooting wasn't really all that exciting (the shotgun, ugh! How could they break such a hallmark weapon so badly?!), and there wasn't enough tension for the horror elements to kick in. As a result we've got a product that worked excellent as a tech demo, while it was helluva boring as an actual game.

Overthinked is an attempt to fix it by tipping the balance in favour of the survival-horror approach. DooM 3 was never a scary game, but it plants the seed of a slow burning paranoia. OD3 tries to enhance this feeling.

As for the complaints I've received, the most common one is much higher difficulty. With the latest release I've rebalanced some aspects of combat, so the difficulty curve should be much smoother now, at least in principle. But it's still harder than the vanilla game.

Some people also don't seem to like "realistic reloading" mechanics. I've tweaked this one a bit too for bullet-based weapons, but it's still present, so be aware.

Most importantly: this mod rewards more cautious gameplay and some folks complained about not being able to rush-in Rambo-style, dooming everything out of existence. You're supposed to take your time, bunker somewhere safe and listen to audio logs or read emails (some of which allow the player to figure out various gameplay mechanics), stroll around while looking for secret areas... If you're not into this kind of thing, obviously you'll be bored as hell ;)   

 

To sum things up a bit: 

 

- Perfected: insane, non-stop havoc action.

- Overthinked: slow, tense fight for survival. 

 

Shoving away my obvious bias towards my own mod, I genuinely think that Overthinked is more suitable for the first playthrough, though.

On the other hand, I had a great time with Perfected Resurrection of Evil. I'd even go as far as to say that PD3 should receive it's very own map-pack, as the mod is definitely underutilised in the regular D3 campaign. 

 

In the end, you should try both mods and see which one suits your gameplay style better. They're both free, after all. 

 

I hope I've given an objective opinion. Let me know what you guys think. Also - maybe VGames has a take on that? Are you here somewhere, buddy? ;)

 

Cheers!  

0x29a

         

 

Edit: If you want to play something as close to vanilla as possible, while having more modern graphics and better audio design, go for the Redux mod. It's really good in this aspect.

 

 

 

 

  

      

Thanks for the advice! I think I am a little more intrigued by the idea of Doom 3 becomeing a legit survival horror game with all the changes the Overthinked mod does. So, probably will try your mod first, but I then plan to try the Perfected version as well. 

One thing: Is the enemy AI changed? 

Hi,

Both mods are featuring some AI changes, but those are very subtle. I can't tell you PD3 changes from the top of my head, but in OD3 some enemies are more likely to leap forward or dodge attacks. Ah, yeah, and trites explode with acid if hit by heavier weapons. Also, the damage zones are completely overhauled; for example, you should aim for the head when fighting with zombies, and getting a good shot in tight corridor when the thing is crawling upon you is not always an easy thing.

Cheers!

On ‎6‎/‎12‎/‎2018 at 8:55 AM, DoomMan777 said:

So, I really want to play Doom 3, the only Doom I have not played, and I heard that without mods, it is not that great...

Doom 3 is rather underrated TBH, provided you play the original and not the ruined BFG Edition.  It's better than Doom 4, easily.  Play it without mods first.

2 hours ago, Cynical said:

Doom 3 is rather underrated TBH, provided you play the original and not the ruined BFG Edition.  It's better than Doom 4, easily.  Play it without mods first.

I'll soon have a chance to compare it with Doom 4, since my copy of the latter is arriving in a couple days. Yeah, I know it took me a long time to get it, but I been busy, ya know? ;)

I enjoyed Doom 3. I found it nice and creepy. I never quite finished it thanks to a driver conflict between my old PC and its GeForce 6800 card. Wow, that takes you back, doesn't it? I should see if I can get it running on Win10.

Quote

  It's better than Doom 4, easily.  Play it without mods first.

Hi,

While I can understand the second part (not that I necessarily agree), I'd like you to elaborate on the first part. Better... how exactly?

Note that I'm not being cynical (pun not intended), but I'm genuinely interested. 

Cheers!

0x29a 

Yeah, Doom 3 was solid but the gameplay is nowhere near as good as it's in Doom 2016.

I would recommend Overthinked as it makes D3 a unique experience in all the Doom series: a slow, tactical, adrenaline-packed survival horror.

Feel free to install my patch for Overthinked that fixes the few remaining oversights https://www.moddb.com/mods/overthinked-doom3/addons/sodoomaniacs-tweak-bundle-for-overthinked-doom-3

On 6/12/2018 at 3:55 PM, DoomMan777 said:

 without mods, it is not that great...

Thats not true.

If you want some Improvements, just take some HD Textures, Sound and Lighning Design are just very good.

Have to look up how mine are called, loaded them about 10 years ago and i just copy the whole Folder from PC to PC :D

Afterwards you can still search for a Mod.

A little Tip, overcome your fear and run forwards to the Enemies with the Shotgun.

It will become your one Hit Killstick.

On 6/14/2018 at 1:54 AM, Steve D said:

 

I'hould see if I can get it running on Win10.

Without looking it up, it shouldn't be so hard to fix, as mentioned above, i am using the same Folder i installed 2004 on Win XP :>

Doom 3s Hell Levels and corrupted Base are very very awsome.

On 7/29/2022 at 5:06 AM, SoDOOManiac said:

I would recommend Overthinked as it makes D3 a unique experience in all the Doom series: a slow, tactical, adrenaline-packed survival horror.

First: this thread is 4 years old and there was no point in replying to it.

Second: these two mods totally ruin the Doom 3 experience, one of them is just a Brutal Doom rip-off and the other one is a Complex/RPG/Lite/whatever rip-off. 

There are other mods that try to improve the game without changing the experience like Golden Edition or Redux.

I hope this is a sufficient reason to bump the thread.

I developed a patch for Overthinked Doom 3 fixing some remaining balance and weapon handling issues.

https://www.moddb.com/mods/overthinked-doom3/addons/sodoomaniacs-tweak-bundle-for-overthinked-doom-3

This tweak bundle includes:

• Fix for Soul Cube to kill Hell Knights at full health and balancing for bosses that the Cube can be used against;
• Super Shotgun made useful, with drastically improved accuracy;
• Fix for impossibility to reload Super Shotgun when there is 1 shell loaded in it and 1 shell available;
• Cacodemon health buff from 200 to 400 hp, so that it no longer dies to a single shell fired from the shotgun or SSG but still dies to a single grenade or rocket;
• MG-88 machinegun's better balance, now its mag holds 50 rounds (to justify the folding reload, when the mag was 30 it was frustrating that the future weapon designers couldn't make the standard size mag replacement simpler) with unchanged 150 spare rounds;
• Lowering in case of wall/enemy proximity is now always disabled for the shotgun regardless of the weapon awareness setting (as well as it had been before for SSG, chainsaw and Soul Cube);
• Shadow Wraith by Captain Obvious aka Jason Plieger (in the separate zWraithPack.pk4 file, if you don't want it, just don't put it into Overthinked directory).