How come they never made Final Doom for the xbox 360?

[doom guy66]

Does anyone know why they never made Final Doom for the xbox 360. I would've loved to buy and play it. Also yes I know they have Final Doom as in the expansions in the bethesda version but I prefer the 360 ports.

[Zilch]

Who cares?!

 

It's better on PC anyway 😜

[Edward850]

2 hours ago, doom guy66 said:

Does anyone know why they never made Final Doom for the xbox 360. I would've loved to buy and play it. Also yes I know they have Final Doom as in the expansions in the bethesda version but I prefer the 360 ports.

The current ports are the 360 ports, that's what they were built from*. There's no logical reason to prefer the older ports.

 

*specifically it goes Linux Doom->Xbox->Xbox360->Classic. BFG somehow ended up it's own separate branch from either Xbox or 360, from the sounds of things. And I'd hate to think what the library is in Eternal.

[doom guy66]

2 hours ago, Zilch said:

Who cares?!

 

It's better on PC anyway 😜

Yeah but I used to not have a pc

[Dark Pulse]

Presumably there was rights issues they would've had to sort out. Remember, Final Doom was not made by id or any of the id staff at the time of Doom's creation - it was amateur PWADs, and making it available would generally mean that some of those people likely would've gotten residual income. (I don't know the terms of the contract they signed with id, of course, but I'd presume it would be along the terms of "X% of profit for Y years." Probably the only person who could even shed some light on this issue anymore would be Sverre Kvernmo, as I know he still floats around on Doomworld from time to time - whether or not he wants to, or is even at liberty, to discuss the payment terms they negotiated 25+ years ago is another story entirely.)

 

Whatever the reasons were, enough of them were gone in the intervening years that they could be put into the Unity port. Coincidentally or not, some of the makers of the work in those wads (Ty Halderman, Jim Flynn) have since passed on.

Edited August 11, 2021 by Dark Pulse

[TheMagicMushroomMan]

Why do you specifically perfer the 360 port when the Bethesda port is the same and has Final DOOM? Use an Xbox controller and you'll have the same experience.

[Agent Slacker]

Something that I think is worth noting is that a port of DOOM, DOOM II, and Final DOOM was released exclusively on the PS3 titled DOOM Classic Complete. It was released about a month after the BFG Edition came out. The 360 version of BFG Edition's classic DOOM ports were based off of Nerve's previously released ports for Xbox Live Arcade.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't the classic DOOM ports on the PS3 version of BFG Edition done by id Software themselves? There doesn't appear to be any reference to Nerve in the intro videos when booting it up, and the menu UI is completely different.

Also, other than the way aiming feels in the 360 ports (I prefer how it feels on the 360) the newer ports are hands down the best way to play classic DOOM on console; you can even download Final DOOM on them for free.

[Devalaous]

I recall someone finding info in the port of Doom 2 about possible Final Doom DLC, but it never happened. Would have made the most sense to do it that way.

 

The PS3 version had ALL of the official Doom PC content included, so I imagine they wanted to add final Doom and the Master Levels to the 360 release but never got around to it. Who knows?

[Skronkidonk]

It woulda been neat to see how Plutonia and TNT was on Xbox 360. 

I really like how the midis sound on Xbox 360 so TNT woulda been neat to hear.

[Edward850]

49 minutes ago, Skronkidonk said:

It woulda been neat to see how Plutonia and TNT was on Xbox 360. 

I really like how the midis sound on Xbox 360 so TNT woulda been neat to hear.

The MIDIs (which are actually just recordings) on the 360 are broken and have the wrong tempo, given they used an outdated version of MUS2MIDI to convert them. It's only now with the classic Unity port that it's been finally be fixed (and with an authentic SC-55 MKII to boot). The existing recordings were bad enough, TNT would have been so much worse.

[Skronkidonk]

8 minutes ago, Edward850 said:

The MIDIs (which are actually just recordings) on the 360 are broken and have the wrong tempo, given they used an outdated version of MUS2MIDI to convert them. It's only now with the classic Unity port that it's been finally be fixed (and with an authentic SC-55 MKII to boot). The existing recordings were bad enough, TNT would have been so much worse.

I'm pretty sure that the sound font used in the 360 port was Gravis Ultrasound which is pretty neat. I just love the music it sounds so funky.

[Gez]

12 minutes ago, Edward850 said:

The MIDIs (which are actually just recordings) on the 360 are broken and have the wrong tempo

I'm pretty sure they're not recordings, because there's the entire set of MIDI files (with, indeed, a slightly slower tempo) along with the entire set of GUS patches, in the game's diskfiles. But there's no .XWM or .MP3 or .OGG or anything of the sort in there. It probably uses something like TiMidity for playback.

[Edward850]

1 hour ago, Gez said:

I'm pretty sure they're not recordings, because there's the entire set of MIDI files (with, indeed, a slightly slower tempo) along with the entire set of GUS patches, in the game's diskfiles. But there's no .XWM or .MP3 or .OGG or anything of the sort in there. It probably uses something like TiMidity for playback.

Hmm, right. The Xbox was definitely recordings, guess they changed that for the 360. Still the exact same mus2midi issue though.

[Kinsie]

On 8/13/2021 at 2:14 PM, Agent Slacker said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't the classic DOOM ports on the PS3 version of BFG Edition done by id Software themselves? There doesn't appear to be any reference to Nerve in the intro videos when booting it up, and the menu UI is completely different.

Nerve does not appear to have been directly involved with them, no - while it's clearly based on the same base port as the 360 games, it uses loose WAD files instead of diskfiles and the menu is handled using Flash instead of, uh, whatever XBLA uses (I can't open doom2.disk in SLADE for some reason.)

 

Development is credited to two internal Id coders, and Nerve is only credited for No Rest For The Living. Amusingly, Plutonia is credited to "The Casalo Brothers", proving that the PS3 had just as many spellcheckers as it had games.

[cybdmn]

On 8/14/2021 at 8:12 AM, Kinsie said:

Nerve does not appear to have been directly involved with them, no - while it's clearly based on the same base port as the 360 games, it uses loose WAD files instead of diskfiles and the menu is handled using Flash instead of, uh, whatever XBLA uses (I can't open doom2.disk in SLADE for some reason.)

 

AFAIR, the XBLA port uses propietary Xbox360  libraries for the menu, which was included in XDK.

[Agent Slacker]

So my guess as to why Final DOOM never came to the 360 was that id probably didn't want to bother porting their version of classic DOOM over because DOOM and DOOM 2 were already on the 360; Releasing another version would probably confuse consumers and/or it would just look inconsistent with Nerve's port.
That'd be my best guess. We may never know why unless someone from id were to respond.

[Kinsie]

Honestly, the reason is probably money. Console manufacturers charged far more for Digital Stuff like patches in the PS360 era than they do today.