How to avoid burnout?

[kvothesixstring]

Demo burnout. It's a thing. Not specific to Doom, but this is really first time I have experienced it. Grinding super fucked runs, doing D2Alls and episode runs, and basically just not knowing what to do with my free time if I am not doing a run. I know on the face of it the answer is step back and take a break. I should probably do that. What I am really wondering about is how you people avoid getting to that place? 

 

I'd love some advice on how you all handle it, if in fact it is something that you experience. Do you just stop? I love speedrunning this game and I don't want to make myself hate it. 

 

Thanks in advance and hopefully someone can find insight here.

[taedev]

That's exactly it, I think. Take a break. I get tired of doing a particular demo, and I take a break from it. Months later, I go back to it and do better than ever. Not naming names, but I think that's true for a lot of people. Take a break, and when you get back to it, you may be rusty at first, but then you do better than ever. With that said, I'm relatively new to demo recording (I almost said 'speedrunning', but most of my runs are strollers. Sometimes it feels weird calling a stroller a 'speedrun').

 

Also, I have a lot of hobbies that I just stopped, and I regret leaving tons of unfinished projects that I can't publish. I'm trying to finish what I start now, so the break I take shouldn't be more than a few months.

 

As far as not knowing what to do with your free time if you're not doing a run, I don't think I'm a good person to offer advice about that. I have plenty of other non-speedrunning things to do, but I still get too fixated on my latest hobby.

[Andrea Rovenski]

doom-wise, I ocellate between mapping and demoing. When I get tired of one, I go back to the other. Demo-wise, I love doing every single category so sometimes I'll go for a week and only do -respawn runs or tyson runs, something way less stressful and harder to get mad at. In general, taking breaks and doing other things can always help. 

[Laure]

When I start to feel burnout approaching, I'll just find something different to do. A different category, different map, different wad, a different game or activity altogether - anything that isn't the thing that burnt me out in the first place. I just wait until that urge to play comes back and I'm ready for the grinds again. Sometimes that desire to play takes a few days, a few weeks, months; some games I even took multiple year breaks from before I wanted to play again. I think the important thing is to not force yourself to play through whatever burnt you out and make it worse and worse.

[Billa]

I'm honestly surprised you've avoided burnout so much, considering you spent 100,000 attempts combined on an amount of runs I can count on one hand :P but I personally find the best approach for avoiding burnout is to never commit too much to something, always have easier projects on the side, and be able to recognise when I'm not enjoying something. It's not worth getting frustrated and losing sight of what I enjoy about the game in the first place

[HeatedChocolate]

This is more general advice but when it comes to games, I like to go through cycles where I play one game religiously before I start to get tired of it/it leaves a bad taste in my mouth and move on to another. Variety is the spice of life as they say. If I'm not feeling up for games (IE the only parts I remember are boring/unfun) I'll swap over to my over-bloated "to-watch" list and just binge movies/shows. Lists are actually very helpful for avoiding burnout 'cause you can always find something on it that promises to be interesting.

[kvothesixstring]

31 minutes ago, Billa said:

I'm honestly surprised you've avoided burnout so much, considering you spent 100,000 attempts combined on an amount of runs I can count on one hand :P but I personally find the best approach for avoiding burnout is to never commit too much to something, always have easier projects on the side, and be able to recognise when I'm not enjoying something. It's not worth getting frustrated and losing sight of what I enjoy about the game in the first place

Ya I am definitely an outlier when it comes to this I think. My OCD definitely contributes to by singular focus but clearly doesn't prevent burnout as we can see. 

[kvothesixstring]

1 hour ago, Andrea Rovenski said:

doom-wise, I ocellate between mapping and demoing. When I get tired of one, I go back to the other. Demo-wise, I love doing every single category so sometimes I'll go for a week and only do -respawn runs or tyson runs, something way less stressful and harder to get mad at. In general, taking breaks and doing other things can always help. 

I have a couple of map ideas I've been kicking around in my head, maybe now is a good time to try and get them out. :)

 

[kvothesixstring]

Thanks for the responses, it's helpful to know that other people struggle with this and have found strategies to help. I appreciate you folks.

[Meowgi]

Not so much to avoid burnout, but what I do when I feel it: Map and play other games.

[HeatedChocolate]

1 hour ago, HeatedChocolate said:

Lists are actually very helpful for avoiding burnout 'cause you can always find something on it that promises to be interesting.

The almighty wheel of decision works excellently with lists.

[Nine Inch Heels]

13 hours ago, kvothesixstring said:

Demo burnout. It's a thing. Not specific to Doom, but this is really first time I have experienced it. Grinding super fucked runs, doing D2Alls and episode runs, and basically just not knowing what to do with my free time if I am not doing a run. I know on the face of it the answer is step back and take a break. I should probably do that. What I am really wondering about is how you people avoid getting to that place?  

Not knowing what else to do is the big problem you have. The solution is to find another hobby, preferably one that is not taking place in front of a computer screen (which means getting into mapping, which then results in more time spent playing doom, which obviously means more time spent in front of the screen is probably some of the worst advice you could have gotten).

 

In addition to that, a healthier diet, more time spent outside, being physically active, hanging out with friends, and all that "not at home" type of stuff should help.

[kvothesixstring]

20 minutes ago, Nine Inch Heels said:

Not knowing what else to do is the big problem you have. The solution is to find another hobby, preferably one that is not taking place in front of a computer screen (which means getting into mapping, which then results in more time spent playing doom, which obviously means more time spent in front of the screen is probably some of the worst advice you could have gotten).

 

In addition to that, a healthier diet, more time spent outside, being physically active, hanging out with friends, and all that "not at home" type of stuff should help.

What are these "friends" and "outside" of which you speak? 

 

All joking aside, I am physically active from my job and it is currently winter where I live. In other seasons I spend lots of time outdoors. Just hard to find activities that don't involve spending lots of time in drastically below freezing temps.

[Andrea Rovenski]

26 minutes ago, Nine Inch Heels said:

Not knowing what else to do is the big problem you have. The solution is to find another hobby, preferably one that is not taking place in front of a computer screen (which means getting into mapping, which then results in more time spent playing doom, which obviously means more time spent in front of the screen is probably some of the worst advice you could have gotten).

 

In addition to that, a healthier diet, more time spent outside, being physically active, hanging out with friends, and all that "not at home" type of stuff should help.

All these things are not mutually exclusive.

[LadyMistDragon]

26 minutes ago, Andrea Rovenski said:

All these things are not mutually exclusive.

I mean, technically you're correct, but you know how people can be....

[4shockblast]

TBH it's a miracle I'm not burnt out completely from Doom given my demo count, I guess it's just an addiction. :D TBH, I probably avoid it by naturally not being able to play periodically, whether due to traveling or other matters I have to deal with. Like Andrea, I also have made some effort to try to get into every category; I think there's a bit of a barrier for this for a lot of players, since the skillsets are quite different, and if you already feel somewhat accomplished at pacifist, doing a max and failing to live up to that expectation can be a challenge (and vice versa). That said, pushing past that can be quite rewarding, and if you can jump between categories and types of runs, it's much harder to get to a point where you are that bored of what you are doing, since the nature of the game changes quite a bit. Especially, I find seeking stuff that feels very novel is one of the most rewarding ways of playing, stuff like strategizing really complex routes to complete a challenge or running Doom WADs that play little like regular Doom. When you have these changes of pace from just throwing hundreds (thousands? tens of thousands?) :^), coupled with occasional breaks from Doom or Doom running entirely whether for a few days or several weeks, I guess burnout rarely becomes an issue.

 

WRT mapping, I've always found it a challenge to get into, but if you have a map in progress and are in the right zone for working on it, it's a great way to not bash your head against the same run for a little while. But definitely, NIH makes good points that seeking some hobbies that are outside the computer and staying active, when that is a possibility, though, as you say, this may not be the right call for you given the cold weather and your existing amount of activity. Even excluding outdoor activities, there's always stuff like reading or learning a language that may not involve using a screen, or perhaps not using a screen as intensely as one tends to with Doom runs. :P

 

Granted, easier said than done; inevitably, I still find myself grinding the shit out of some runs for an entire day or two and wondering what I'm doing with my life, heh.

[kvothesixstring]

11 minutes ago, 4shockblast said:

TBH it's a miracle I'm not burnt out completely from Doom given my demo count, I guess it's just an addiction. :D TBH, I probably avoid it by naturally not being able to play periodically, whether due to traveling or other matters I have to deal with. Like Andrea, I also have made some effort to try to get into every category; I think there's a bit of a barrier for this for a lot of players, since the skillsets are quite different, and if you already feel somewhat accomplished at pacifist, doing a max and failing to live up to that expectation can be a challenge (and vice versa). That said, pushing past that can be quite rewarding, and if you can jump between categories and types of runs, it's much harder to get to a point where you are that bored of what you are doing, since the nature of the game changes quite a bit. Especially, I find seeking stuff that feels very novel is one of the most rewarding ways of playing, stuff like strategizing really complex routes to complete a challenge or running Doom WADs that play little like regular Doom. When you have these changes of pace from just throwing hundreds (thousands? tens of thousands?) :^), coupled with occasional breaks from Doom or Doom running entirely whether for a few days or several weeks, I guess burnout rarely becomes an issue.

 

WRT mapping, I've always found it a challenge to get into, but if you have a map in progress and are in the right zone for working on it, it's a great way to not bash your head against the same run for a little while. But definitely, NIH makes good points that seeking some hobbies that are outside the computer and staying active, when that is a possibility, though, as you say, this may not be the right call for you given the cold weather and your existing amount of activity. Even excluding outdoor activities, there's always stuff like reading or learning a language that may not involve using a screen, or perhaps not using a screen as intensely as one tends to with Doom runs. :P

 

Granted, easier said than done; inevitably, I still find myself grinding the shit out of some runs for an entire day or two and wondering what I'm doing with my life, heh.

Yeah, perhaps I should get back into learning Swedish this winter. 

Also branching out into different categories, you hit the nail on the head. I have a quality level that I expect of myself by now and I simply can't get there on max runs. Maybe I should look into rounding out my skillset more. I've been a bit of a one trick pony with glides. While that is a good meme, it does kind of pigeonhole me. 

[BigBoy91]

I like to pursue more leisurely hobbies when not grinding Doom. I dabble in drums, for instance. There's not really an end goal, and improvement isn't always linear. Puts less pressure on oneself. In speedrunning, everything is quantifiable and finite. Makes it stressful at times when you're just trying to have a chill day.

[GarrettChan]

3 hours ago, 4shockblast said:

TBH it's a miracle I'm not burnt out completely from Doom given my demo count, I guess it's just an addiction.

I guess I can help you literally burnt out irl :P

 

Honestly, after speedrunning some games, it's hard for me to tolerate slow gameplay etc., so yeah... it's a bit of frustration because when you're playing something that you're not as skillful as Doom, maybe you'll think it's no good way to enjoy those, maybe. This is my reason that sometimes I feel I don't want to play other games either, but not sure whether that's your case.

 

Recently I got real busy and honestly I really have no time to play too much Doom, which cures my burnt out, heh. It's funny that the time I can play Doom lately is when I got COVID and literally I can't go to work :^)

[kvothesixstring]

4 minutes ago, GarrettChan said:

I guess I can help you literally burnt out irl :P

 

Honestly, after speedrunning some games, it's hard for me to tolerate slow gameplay etc., so yeah... it's a bit of frustration because when you're playing something that you're not as skillful as Doom, maybe you'll think it's no good way to enjoy those, maybe. This is my reason that sometimes I feel I don't want to play other games either, but not sure whether that's your case.

 

Recently I got real busy and honestly I really have no time to play too much Doom, which cures my burnt out, heh. It's funny that the time I can play Doom lately is when I got COVID and literally I can't go to work :^)

I do often find that playing other games is weird. I am like, why am I not immediately good at this? lol

 

[BigBoy91]

28 minutes ago, kvothesixstring said:

I do often find that playing other games is weird. I am like, why am I not immediately good at this? lol

I agree with you. I used to be a huge retro gamer. I have a massive 600+ collection of old carts and consoles dating back to the late 70s. I feel like I'm wasting my time if I'm not trying to beat some sort of record when I play them. It's a sickness. My fiance gets annoyed with me all the time because of it.

 

EDIT: I mean this in the most lighthearted way possible. I'm not saying I have a crippling addiction to speedrunning. I've just approached gaming in general differently ever since starting. She's much more casual.

Edited November 30, 2022 by BigBoy91

[kvothesixstring]

Speedrunning is addicting for sure. Getting a fast time makes the happy brain chemicals

 

[Andrea Rovenski]

 

38 minutes ago, BigBoy91 said:

 I feel like I'm wasting my time if I'm not trying to beat some sort of record when I play them. It's a sickness.

I will attest to this.😌

[CFWMagic]

Two things: Variety and Distraction.

Variety: Don't grind only a single wad/map. If possible, have several projects at the same time that you're trying to run for. If  one specific map is giving you trouble, switch to the other ones on your to-do list. I tend to play at least 2 different wads at the same time when I'm recording (I don't submit demos myself, but I'm planning to have a non-competitive showcase series for my personal BD build).

Distraction: Do something else. Be it gaming, or be it IRL stuff. It doesn't have to be "fun". Use the downtime to brew yourself some tea, clean out your living space, catch up on your taxes, shine your shoes ... If you insist on it being gaming, explore things you normally wouldn't play with the explicit task of discovering new things. In my example, whenever I'm tired of recording classic doom, I write scripts for another project I want to eventually realize, which is a copycat of Freeman's Mind but in Doom 3 (I'm calling it "Neurotic Mind" for now. Not going to begin releasing episodes anytime soon because I'm incredibly insecure with my artistic work and want to streamline my scripts a few episodes ahead before I even begin release). In essence, you don't have to "know" what to do. Just do something. Even if it sounds pointless, unrelated or not fun in any shape or form. The goal here is to have your brain focused on a different task, any task.

[xScavengerWolfx]

I don't do demo runs but as a mapper i will say this: Map burnout is real and it can be stressful if you doing for long period of time. I know i get burned out easily if i just work on one map for too long and/or not getting it how i want it to be.

 

What i do is when i start getting burnt out is just close the editor, watch some streams/youtube, play games and when i'm ready to get back to it, i get back to mapping.

[GarrettChan]

2 hours ago, kvothesixstring said:

I do often find that playing other games is weird. I am like, why am I not immediately good at this? lol

 

Yeah, that's one type of dilemma for sure. When I'm playing other games right now, sometimes I'll try to use some speedrun strats just to make it less grindy etc., but sometimes speedrun strats are also quite flashy and entertaining to use heh.

 

It's not easy to be good at everything because everything plays differently. Being good at Doom is one big achievement already.

[Bredd]

I have been trying to branch out like others have said. A few tablefill strollers or pacifists in slaughtermaps can go a long way. Also, some RNG heavy runs, while frustrating, can also be to your benefit if, like me, you're going against runners with incredible movement that you can't compete with.

 

Another thing I try to do is not do too many high-attempt runs back to back. So if, hypothetically speaking, a doomgod just knocked down a time that took me like 3800 attempts, I will probably go back to the grind, but not immediately

[Kinetic]

My experience is like Andrea said, I have tended to oscillate between demoing and mapping, with demoing periods typically lasting longer than mapping periods, since I end up wanting to play fully complete maps with full gameplay while testing my own maps with half-fleshed out gameplay.

 

I think for you Kvo, as a runner (movement runner? glide guy?), you do a lot of runs where it's like if an archvile doesn't do this, or if you don't align yourself perfectly in a way, the run is dead, which is so easy to burnout on (at least I know it would be so easy for me to burnout if I did those types of runs) since there is so little margin for error. I do mainly maxes and tysons, table-fills at that, so I don't end up trying to grind out monster RNG or some perfected movement. Maxes have a lot of chaos and room for error in them, I feel like maxes are more like any given run falls on a continuum, you could've done some good some bad, the game could've been lenient or strict in some areas, but there is usually a chance to make things up and complete the run if things go bad at some point, whereas movement runs are more like pass-fail, and 99.99% of runs just are a fail in like 5 seconds because you weren't perfect or the monsters weren't perfect, which is frustrating.

 

So basically, try other categories like others have said. I found tysoning quite fun, since it made maps like AV23 which would be unfun for me from a max perspective, fun since I was playing by different rules and had to emphasize pacifism and routing a lot more than just killing everything in the way of me, and I also could make a nice transition from max to tyson since they are similar categories in a way and I already had decent punching skills.

 

And if you are just tired of playing doom altogether, find some other things to do like everyone else here has said, find another game to play and realize it sucks after a bit then come back to doom and be thankful for it being meggie. It is hard to avoid "burning out" I think, everyone gets a little tired or bored or uninterested in something they do all the time at some point, so it is ok to take a break for a bit. You could also just make your life hella busy so you have little time for doom then it becomes more valuable to play lol.

 

And you said you had ideas for mapping Kvo, which is nice, but just make sure you don't map unless you actually WANT to map. I wish right now I had more motivation for mapping so I can churn out more stuff, but you don't want to get to that place where you're just trying to map for mapping's sake and you just end up staring at UDB doing nothing.

 

Also, yea, like Andrew and BigBoy have said, I have reached a point, not where I don't enjoy the game if I'm not trying to beat some sort of record, but if I am not playing some hard shit that is challenging me I am not super interested :(. Rip casual playthroughs from even my favorite map authors.

[Andrea Rovenski]

13 minutes ago, KineticBeverage said:

Rip casual playthroughs from even my favorite map authors.

I half-measure I've been toying with is doing fun categories for new wads for first playthroughs (ozonia uv respawn for example), which makes it a blend of casual/speeddemo that keeps me having fun because I can't get too mad for not being a monster on my first time loading a map.

[kvothesixstring]

13 minutes ago, Andrea Rovenski said:

I half-measure I've been toying with is doing fun categories for new wads for first playthroughs (ozonia uv respawn for example), which makes it a blend of casual/speeddemo that keeps me having fun because I can't get too mad for not being a monster on my first time loading a map.

honestly this is a great idea. I often get bored on casual playthroughs of wads that aren't uberhard (and I just don't like uberhard wads generally) so I might steal this idea might make things more interesting while not committing fully to grinding demos.