Blasphemer discussion

[GeorgePieVG]

Hey @Catoptromancy, glad you're keeping the project going! I made some pull requests on github, feel free to merge them. The main new feature is HHE support for string replacement in vanilla/Chocolate/Crispy Heretic. Many thanks to @ETTiNGRiNDER for the guide on adapting HHE for Heretic 1.3. I also added a few other things, these were not my own resources, but I hope to contribute more to the community in the future. Also, my first post on Doomworld!

[MrFlibble]

Currently, Blasphemer uses skeletons from the Army of Darkness TC, originally contributed to Freed∞m by @Linguica, according to Attic information. However, I downloaded the TC (which I haven't played), and found that there is also a third custom sprite sheet, some kind of undead king with a crossbow, used as a Cyberdemon replacement:

I wonder why this one was not part of Freed∞m resources and whether it can be used? Certainly it looks like a nice boss monster placeholder.

 

The Army of Darkness TC readme states that

Quote

Authors MAY use the contents of this file as a base for
modification or reuse.  Permissions have been obtained from original 
authors for any of their resources modified or included in this file.

 

[Craneo]

Maybe cuz it's clearly too derivative design wise from Evil Ash from Army of Darkness?

[MrFlibble]

Joke's on me for not having watched that movie :0

[Catoptromancy]

There is a bunch of new pull requests on github. Once I learn how github works, will look into them. Will probably add a branch for the prebuilt iwads, and another for pull requests.

[june gloom]

I wrote up the current state of the project on my boomer shooter blog. Please let me know if I got anything egregiously wrong.

[MrFlibble]

@june gloom, I suppose it would be nice to spell Freedoom without capitalising the D, and perhaps using the infinity symbol like this: Freed∞m for extra coolness.

 

I know I might sound a bit nit-picky here, but the issue of capitalisation was discussed here some time ago, and the project has not used the spelling FreeDoom for over a decade at least. I can't find the exact posts addressing the capital D, but here's a similar discussion about the logo and how the game title should not be parsed as "Free Doom":

https://www.doomworld.com/forum/post/1532028

 

UPD: also I'm not sure what you meant by saying

Quote

Like most everything else in this game, some of these monsters aren’t much more than placeholders — even the Iron Lich has gone completely unreplaced! — and that’s okay.

The Iron Lich uses its own art, which might look a bit unusual, but it was created specifically for Blasphemer by @Oplexitie.

Edited June 27 by MrFlibble : added passage about Iron Lich

[AntonR]

If you were seeing an unreplaced Iron lich the wad version could be wrong, the Blasphemer one is a really cool unique design!

[june gloom]

I'm using the one provided by Catoptromancy posted in April. I'll update the Freedoom spelling.

[Vermil]

I believe the issue with the Iron Lich sprites is because June gloom was running Blasphemer as a Pwad to Heretic in ZDoom:

 

https://zdoom.org/wiki/Sprite#Conflicting_sprite_names

 

Edited June 28 by Vermil

[june gloom]

That was indeed what I was doing, yes.

 

[EDIT] Forced Doom Launcher to recognize it as an IWAD and the Iron Lich replacement functions as it should now.

Edited June 28 by june gloom

[AntonR]

This is not the version on the Github right? that one is from early 2023 it seems?

[june gloom]

5 hours ago, AntonR said:

This is not the version on the Github right? that one is from early 2023 it seems?

 

This is the one I'm using.

[MrFlibble]

16 hours ago, Vermil said:

running Blasphemer as a Pwad to Heretic in ZDoom

What an odd way to play the game, since BLASPHEM.WAD is a fully standalone IWAD?

 

This is why I never trust any kinds of "launchers" or whatever. Command line all the way.

[AntonR]

Recently coming back to this a bit, I figure I gotta catch up with what is included in which version...

I put together a zip of my sounds I made with any recent updates included.
Again, all public domain sources and my own work (along with some BSD 3 clause work from this very wad) so all of it is BSD 3 clause as suits this project.

Comparison mp3s between the old sounds and mine for your enjoyment, very very loud on occasion (old games like maximised audio)
There are many more sounds included than these.

item pickup, phoenix rod explosion, golem death, water loop
OLD

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1cVFMry3DLXDQSD4Xl4VZV2MnC2MajtF9/view?usp=sharing

MINE

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1SzedgUOzjhB2S_hURcVe2fp7Sw6CVmD9/view?usp=sharing

 

artifact, crossbow, melee weapon, sabreclaw(?)-hit
OLD
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1yuEk4Iv2X0a3_6pv3WYsaWtbuQ4tepZA/view?usp=sharing

MINE

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1sywl4CV9xg_BTTzo12aDt__cXhzmExgl/view?usp=sharing

teleport, key pickup, switch, imp death

OLD
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1dK80vxnZmJDsdoxBQ0M5bOGGIKPc5vqG/view?usp=sharing

MINE
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1_FpLXjfGcLQI8tPFxCb-ZJ3evEuVnF1V/view?usp=sharing

lift start, lift stop, door close, water splash

OLD
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1w9yN_IfBCF2EhMgM96Wnup_WamdhJGvX/view?usp=sharing
MINE
https://drive.google.com/file/d/190tMKtJdndtXn9Jq7SxHHmx1kEdVxWZm/view?usp=sharing

 

snd_blasphemer_custom.zip

[june gloom]

10 hours ago, MrFlibble said:

What an odd way to play the game, since BLASPHEM.WAD is a fully standalone IWAD?

 

This is why I never trust any kinds of "launchers" or whatever. Command line all the way.

 

I used command line for years, but I'm tired of it. DoomLauncher takes a lot of the inconvenience out of things. It was just this one issue that's a goof. Take it up with the devs, not me.

[MrFlibble]

On 6/30/2024 at 12:32 AM, june gloom said:

I used command line for years, but I'm tired of it. DoomLauncher takes a lot of the inconvenience out of things. It was just this one issue that's a goof. Take it up with the devs, not me.

Oh, it was never my intention to criticise! I just tend to steer clear from all kinds of launchers or other such "helpful" programmes because I have no idea what might be happening under the hood in there, and I like to know exactly what I'm doing when I launch a game. The issue with the non-replaced Iron Lich is just yet another proof for me that launchers are not to be trusted.

 

BTW, just for the record, it is completely out of the question that a libre project like Blasphemer would retain any sort of proprietary data, even if no replacement was available. If there were no Iron Lich sprites made, there would be some kind of placeholder or, at worst, a dummy sprite (Freed∞m had those "Freedoom graphic not yet done" boxes for this case), but never, ever the original Raven graphic.

On 4/16/2024 at 7:04 PM, MrFlibble said:

E1M1 generally feels pretty dark. Heretic levels are somehow more colourful, don't you think?

I have to admit that I'd never played the registered episodes of Heretic before recently, and with this new experience I must say that the Blasphemer levels that I've played generally fit pretty well with both the structure, pacing and design of Raven's originals. I certainly would appreciate a bit more intricate situations than just walk into a room, defeat all monsters, grab stuff and walk into the next room for more though. (Not criticising mappers here! This is more of my impressions of whatever I have already played of E2 and E3 in Heretic, although E1M1 in Blasphemer is rather similar in this respect.)

[june gloom]

That's a very weird stance to take on launchers but whatever, no skin off my nose.

 

As far as Heretic vs Blasphemer is concerned, it's hard to really make comparisons when we have so little maps-wise that was actually built and intended for Blasphemer -- most of its current maps are pre-made Heretic maps (like I spotted Chris Lutz' Torture in there) that generally try to mimic the Heretic atmosphere. And while Heretic is also dark fantasy, its particular aesthetic leans away from the gothic trappings of Blasphemer and more towards a more sinister take on epic or high fantasy. As such it's overall more colorful and more brightly lit. Compare that to Blasphemer's E1M1 which is very reminiscent of the first level of Blood. Then you start getting into the premade stuff and it's really clear which aesthetic the mappers were going for -- Heretic's, because Blasphemer's didn't really exist at the time. The differences between the two titles' overall aesthetics can be subtle sometimes but I think there is a difference.

[Craneo]

Quote

months maybe ago I sculpted a new demon for Doom 64, at the time called "the scamp" (silly ass name I know), kinda abandoned it as I admit trying new stuff  can be scary so never got around animating it or such, some days ago, maybe one or two katherinecode reminded me of the model and asked me for it, she animated and rendered it, I then made some more post-render tweaks (adding eyes, some blood, more colors, etc) so here is the product of that joint effort: Saurian/Speed Demon

since then, there was also a discussion on the D64 regarding freedoom and IIRC I brought up Blasphemer, which in turn made me realize this model IS from scratch and SHOULD be contrib worthy, so I've also kinda made a shrunk down, paletted version of it, then manually edited in the gibs from the current Freedoom serpentipede in it, will serve as a beast replacement, I think it looks better than the old ghost creature which was too goofy imho, it's mostly done but I talked to Katherinecode and I'm waiting for 3rd walk frame stuff so it can complete the 6 walk animations the beast has I guess.  after thinking it more, I think the third walk frame may be a bit unecessary at the moment, it works fine as is right now and in my opinion looks way better than the current "beast" enemy, so I will submit it as is.
screenshots:
 

Spoiler

I've also considered editing it to work as the final boss' ride in it's first form, but I wasn't so sure of the results.
 

Spoiler

 

Edited July 3 by Craneo

[june gloom]

This looks awesome. Definitely not a fan of the current beast.

[Catoptromancy]

Two new sprites from Craneo, KatherineCode, and Desfar is a good time for another release! New E3M9 and an Updated E3M2. 

 

 

Fork-003

https://www.geocities.ws/catodemos/blasphemer/builds/blasphem-fork-003.zip

 

I still havent figured out pull requests on github, hopefully soon.

Edited July 7 by Catoptromancy

[MrFlibble]

@Catoptromancy, that's some pretty nice update! I just gave it a little spin, took E2M1 to check out the new Weredragon replacement. Again, I used DOSBox with Heretic128 to play.

 

Is it me, or are the levels (or, at least, this particular one) a bit on the hard side? I'm running out of wand ammo on Bringest them oneth, and isn't it a little bit harsh to make the player face several not-Weredragons before getting the crossbow? I have just recently installed the original Heretic and played E2M1 on Thou art a Smite-Meister, and had considerably less trouble navigating through it and E2M2 (haven't played any further yet), although admittedly clearing a pack of gargoyles/fire gargoyles with the wand at the level start is a bit of a slog. But I had no problem with the Weredragons because you get the crossbow before you run into any.

 

Also, I mentioned before that in Blasphemer, some enemies tend to blend in with the dark textures. In E2M1, I also noticed to my disadvantage that the green projectile fired by range-attack harpies is also not very well visible from a big distance, so I kept getting those in the face because I would often fail to notice them in enough time to dodge. I appreciate the effort to make Blasphemer look dissimilar from Heretic, but perhaps you would consider making the projectile a bit brighter, if not of some different colour (e.g. bright-blue)?

 

Concerning the sound effects, I noticed that the harpy death sound comes across as a bit off, since it is some kind of vocalization (almost speech-like), but the sound is played when the harpy hits the ground, not when you knock it out of the air. Conversely. in Heretic, the sound of a downed gargoyle is some kind of wet crunching sound that corresponds to its body crashing on the ground, without any vocalizations. Perhaps some kind of thud-like sound would be more appropriate for this monster? Or, at least, superimpose the vocal part with a gound-hitting sound?

 

BTW, have you considered using some of @AntonR's sound effect contributions?

[Craneo]

there are a lot of bright blue projectiles already (since that's the color of the placeholder projectile I think), I personally think a brighter green with hints of yellow maybe could be nice for the harpy

also feel Not-DSparil's projectile should be more fire-like to match his new sprites (and his general hellfire thematic, in contrast to the original's lightning attacks)

[Catoptromancy]

I missed a couple resources, havent forgot them. They seem public domain though, would be good for placeholders. 

[Vita93]

1 hour ago, MrFlibble said:

@Catoptromancy, that's some pretty nice update! I just gave it a little spin, took E2M1 to check out the new Weredragon replacement. Again, I used DOSBox with Heretic128 to play.

 

Is it me, or are the levels (or, at least, this particular one) a bit on the hard side? I'm running out of wand ammo on Bringest them oneth, and isn't it a little bit harsh to make the player face several not-Weredragons before getting the crossbow? I have just recently installed the original Heretic and played E2M1 on Thou art a Smite-Meister, and had considerably less trouble navigating through it and E2M2 (haven't played any further yet), although admittedly clearing a pack of gargoyles/fire gargoyles with the wand at the level start is a bit of a slog. But I had no problem with the Weredragons because you get the crossbow before you run into any.

 

Also, I mentioned before that in Blasphemer, some enemies tend to blend in with the dark textures. In E2M1, I also noticed to my disadvantage that the green projectile fired by range-attack harpies is also not very well visible from a big distance, so I kept getting those in the face because I would often fail to notice them in enough time to dodge. I appreciate the effort to make Blasphemer look dissimilar from Heretic, but perhaps you would consider making the projectile a bit brighter, if not of some different colour (e.g. bright-blue)?

 

Concerning the sound effects, I noticed that the harpy death sound comes across as a bit off, since it is some kind of vocalization (almost speech-like), but the sound is played when the harpy hits the ground, not when you knock it out of the air. Conversely. in Heretic, the sound of a downed gargoyle is some kind of wet crunching sound that corresponds to its body crashing on the ground, without any vocalizations. Perhaps some kind of thud-like sound would be more appropriate for this monster? Or, at least, superimpose the vocal part with a gound-hitting sound?

 

BTW, have you considered using some of @AntonR's sound effect contributions?

I played through the previous version of the second episode.

 

It's unbalanced. Either fewer monsters or more health / ammo.

[Catoptromancy]

Maps still need tons of work. There is likely no balance between skills, or balance of a single skill. One map at least still crashes, should fix crashes by next release.

[AntonR]

7 hours ago, MrFlibble said:

@Catoptromancy

BTW, have you considered using some of @AntonR's sound effect contributions?

Would you? Pretty please?

[MrFlibble]

Can you guys suggest any good & balanced PWADs to play while the maps are still being worked on? A while ago I downloaded a few random Heretic maps off the idgames database, but they weren't of particularly good quality.

[Broadsword Jim]

44 minutes ago, MrFlibble said:

Can you guys suggest any good & balanced PWADs to play while the maps are still being worked on? A while ago I downloaded a few random Heretic maps off the idgames database, but they weren't of particularly good quality.

Quoth the Raven, Tenebrum, Faithless: Trilogy.

[Vita93]

2 hours ago, MrFlibble said:

Can you guys suggest any good & balanced PWADs to play while the maps are still being worked on? A while ago I downloaded a few random Heretic maps off the idgames database, but they weren't of particularly good quality.

https://www.moddb.com/games/heretic/addons/ultimate-hereticnew-heretic

 

These are compilations.  You can just level skip till you find ones you like.