POTD

[Hellbent]

I clicked on the Red Cross doomworld banner ad. You can donate money from their site to aid in relief in this time of need. I only was able to donate $10 at this time, since I have no money, but I might donate again in a week when I get my pay check.

I hope some of you are able to make a donation.

[sirgalahadwizar]

We have already had bloodshed, thousands of people have voluntarily had volumes of blood drained from them (bloodsuckers!).

I agree, we n33d another war. Or something else important, not connected to us to unite for.

"But irrational attacks and playing the blame game like the multitude of people in these comments are doing isn't right."

-I play the doom game, my attacks are very rational, and all of my comments are right.

-----
"The ones directly responsible for the attack are mostly already dead."

We aren't talking about the hijackers, they're as dead as the people they killed. What we are talking about are the guys who told the hijackers "sick em' boy! go get em!".


"If you think America is a bad culture driven by bad ideas, then you hate prosperity and life."

I hate prosperity and life when someone says "my prosperity and life are more important than yours, bug off!". That's when I pull out a fucking chaingun and cut em in half (hehe, who's is more important now).
At least with a war people focus their destructive energies somewhere else.

[Guest zmc]

Bloodshed, I'd like to see some bloodshed. I don't care if it's Israli blood, Egyptian blood, Brazilian blood, Canadian blood, or even American blood. As long as it's the blood of the terrorists or their accomplices, or of people that helped them in any way shape or form. I don't care where they live, what color their skin is, or which ideas they hold dear. The bloodshed that is vulgar, unnecessary, barbaric, and senseless is that of people who are not involved. If you want to test the new neutron bomb on the terrorists GREAT! Put them all on a remote island somewhere first. I'd even love to watch it on CNN. But right now the gun-ho attitude of the government seems all too happy to just nuke the city that the terrorists are in. That makes the US the terrorists.

And as for the US sticking it's nose in other people's buisness, they stick their nose in their own buisness. Do you think they went into the gulf war to "protect the poor violated people of Kuwait"? I don't think so. If Iraq's takeover would have taken place they would have more control over the oil industry. It's all world policy.

The US has become a bit of a bully in world affairs, because they have the most money and the biggest guns. Unfortunately sick idiots like these terrorists think senseless acts of violence like this one are going to change things.

I think the most important thing for the US right now to do is to make sure that the terrorists don't prevail in any way. And that includes starting a global war on their behalf.

[Guest crazyjoe]

Hi,

Im Ron.

I couldnt help but notice that you mentioned Israel as a place the terrorists might came from!!! How can you think that??The United States is the only true friend of Israel and we suffer this kind of Terror every day just two days ago 16 people died when some Arab explode himself in a train station here in Israel.

This is an Insult to the Israeli people who seek to elimnate those terrorists too but every time we kill one of those terrorists the American and the rest of the world give us a smack in the face.

Israel is trying to destroy the terrorism. did you know that a morn day was announeced in Israel yesterday and all the flags went down while the Palastinies made parties and where so happy.

I just wanted you to know that Israel is in your side.

Ron Sharoni
ISRAEL.

[Gerbil]

For everyone who considers violence without considering consequences:
When you advocate hate against nations, for a few of that nation's people, and when you wish to kill nations for the acts of a few of those nations people.
Take a look in the mirror - you'll see a terrorist staring back.

What happened is a great tragedy. People the world over are united in their voices that this is intolerable, indescribable, and totally reprehensible. There can be no question about that.

BUT to all Americans screaming for blood (anyone's blood - doesn't matter as long as they are foreign) - be grateful your current government is taking the time to react properly. They are searching for facts, making decisions wisely and not rashly. Follow their lead, and focus on two things:
1) Retaliation where retaliation is due. Find those responsible, don't pick on countries they happen to be in.
2) Root out the CAUSES of terrorism. Prevention is better than cure. Killing terrorists does not work. You create martyrs who inspire more terrorists. Take away the root causes and means of support of terrorists and they won't be able to fight or have ANY reason (whether justifiable or not) to do so.

And finally - don't promote hatred of others. This is how these things start. Peace is not gained through violence. We are better than these terrorists, let's not forget that and sink to their level where life is meaningless.

Barry
gerbil@theburrow.co.uk

[mystic]

Russia has wanted their hands on Bin Laden since the early eighties when the USA used him to murder Russians in Afghanistan. So dont be surprised at their support for an attack on him or the Taliban.

I suppose you Americans will have changed your views about Chechnya now. How about the Serbs who just got a severe kicking from Nato for daring to stand up to a bunch of bampot Islamic fundamentalists armed and trained by american special forces

[Guest ORINOCO]

I LISTEN TO ENYA ALSO...
DOING THAT NOW WOULD TEAR ME APART {EXILE..
OUT OF, MY DREAMS A BOAT..I WILL SAIL HOME, TO YOU.....} IF ONLY.
HOPE THOSE BASTARDS PAY..EMAIL ME HOLGATEP@AOL.COM
EVENING FALLS-I AM HOME,I KNOW THE WAY...
I AM HOME..FEELING SO..FAR AWAY.....

[Guest zmc]

No offense was intended at all. If you noticed I also mentioned Americans and Canadians in the list too. There have been people taken into interrogation in countries all over the world, France, Germany, England, and others.
There are people (ignorant ones) that believe Israel is part of the problem, I however am not one of them. What I was trying to say with that post is that nationality/religion is completely irrelevant. It is the terrorists that should be punished, and not any innocent people that just happpen to live in the same country, share a religious belief, or have the same skin color.

[Guest Omniverse]

The worst thing that can be done is to continue to allow country's to harbor terrorists without any reason to regret it. The issue is not whether the civilians of Afghanistan and the like deserve to die; the issue is whether WE do to save THEM. This situation has turned to its most horrible; kill or be killed. If we do not make other nations NOT want ot harbor terrorists, we will have more of the same. This pacifistic bullshit is what has gotten us to this point. How many more Americans must die before you drop this altruistic nonsense and actually defend your own lives?

[Guest zmc]

You don't seem to get it do you? If it's the country that is harboring the terrorists. Fine. Kill all the countries leaders, dismantle their government. If somebody is involved kill them. Not the innocent people that just happened to live next door. If your logic holds then it would be justified for anyone in Iraq today to kill any/all innocent Americans since the US killed a bunch of Iraqies in the gulf war because it's us or them? Get real.
Some average person that was born in "country X" that has done nothing but make pencils his whole life, should not be held responsible for whatever someone else did. Hey, let's forget about political borders, you know because some of the "bad people" might live next door. How about geographic boundries instead? If you're going to kill innocents why not take out a whole continant at once. Well then again the problem is really that humanity has this problem. Let's just kill all the humans and be done with our problem forever. *sarcasm*
By killing innocent people you are only perpetuating terrorism. Isn't that what this is all about? Some people had a beef with our way of life / government / whatever, and instead of dealing with things in a rational manner they just went and killed a bunch of innocent people. How would your solution be any better?

[Guest North-American]

Understanding Oil
from
(System of a Down)


The brutal attacks/bombings this week in New York, and Washington D.C., along with threats of attacks there and elsewhere in the country have changed our times forever. While the mass media concentrates on the details of the destruction, and the blanketed words of politicians, I will attempt to understand and explain the events from the fence. BOMBING AND BEING BOMBED ARE THE SAME THINGS ON DIFFERENT SIDES OF THE FENCE.


Terror is not a spontaneous human action without credence. People just don’t hijack planes and commit harikari (suicide) without any weight of thought to the action. No one in the media seems to ask WHY DID THESE PEOPLE DO THIS HORRIFIC ACT OF VIOLENCE AND DESTRUCTION?


To be able to understand the answer to this, we must first look at our U.S. Mideast Policy. During most of the 20th century, U.S. businesses have worked on attaining oil rights and concessions from countries in the Middle East and Eastern Europe. After WWI, secret back door deals by our State Dept. yielded oil rights from then defeated Turkey to fields in what is now Iraq and Saudi Arabia, in return for looking the other way at a crime against humanity, the Genocide of the Armenians by the Turks. Oil profits have been the motivating factors behind many attempts at counterinsurgency of democratic regimes by the CIA and the U.S in the Middle East (such as Iran in the 1950s, where the Shah replaced the Prime Minister who refused to give up oil rights to the U.S., and since the people couldn’t deal with the Shah, an extremist government headed by the Ayatollah Khomeini ultimately prevailed). During the Iran-Iraq war, America supplied both sides with weapons and advice. These are not the actions of a rich superpower wanting peace. Let’s not forget that Saddam Hussein, before being America’s vision of the Anti-Christ, was a close ally of the U.S., and the CIA. So what was the firm belief system of consecutive American administrations that caused all this to occur ? PEACE IN THE MIDDLE EAST WILL LEAD TO HIGHER OIL AND GASOLINE PRICES. Let’s not also forget the power of the Arms industry, disguised as defense, that still sells billions of dollars of weapons to the area. Therefore it has not been in the short-term economic interest of the U.S. to foster Peace in the Middle East. Using the above reasoning, the U.S. has encouraged extremist governments, toppled democracies, as in the case of Iran to replace it with a monarchy, rigged elections, and many more unspeakable political crimes for U.S. businesses abroad. Let’s not also forget the Red Scare. During the war between the then Soviet Union and Afghanistan, the U.S. armed and supported the Taliban, a fundamentalist Muslim organization, and allowed them to export opium and heroin out of their country to pay for those weapons. Therefore the Taliban rose to power and control with the help of the U.S.A. Today, the bombing of Iraq still continues, no longer covered by the media, the economic embargo still remains, killing millions of children, and recently, while the world and the U.N. General Assembly have cried out to bring in peacekeeping forces into Israel and Palestine, to end the escalated war and recent assassinations, the U.S. has vetoed the rest of the Security Council and has halted the possibility of peace, there, in the most volatile place in the world.


People in Serbia, Lebanon, Iraq, Sudan, and Afghanistan to name a few have seen bombs fall, not always at military targets and kill innocent civilians, as the scene in New York city yesterday. The wars waged by our government in our names has landed smack in the middle of our living room. The half hour of destruction closed down all world financial markets, struck the central headquarters of our military, and had our leaders running into bunkers, and our citizens into fear and frenzy. What scares me more than what has occurred is what our reactions to the occurrences may cause. President Bush belongs to a long generation of Republican Presidents who love war economies. The media has only concentrated on the bombings, if you will, and what type of retaliations are looming for the perpetrators. What everyone fails to realize is that the bombings are a reaction to existing injustices around the world, generally unseen to most Americans. To react to a reaction would be to further sponsor the reaction. In other words, my belief is that the terror will multiply if concrete steps are not taken to sponsor peace in the middle east, NOW. This does not mean that we should not find the guilty party(s), Bin Laden, or whoever they may be, and not try them. Put simply, as long as a major injustice remains, violence precipitates to the surface of life.


Native American folklore, the Bible, Nostradamus, and many other major religious beliefs point to this era with the visuals of yesterday’s disasters, and conditions of ecological disasters we experience daily in our lives today. War, rumors of war, famine, long burning fires, etc., are at our doorstep. We can prevail over this possible vision with the power of the human spirit, understanding, compassion, and peace. IT’S TIME TO PUT OUR NEEDS FOR SECURITY AND SURVIVAL, ACHIEVED ONLY THROUGH PEACE, ABOVE AND BEYOND PROFITS, ESPECIALLY IN THESE TIMES.


SOLUTION:


The U.S. should stop sidestepping the U.N. Security Council, and allow U.N. Peacekeeping troops and missions to the Middle East. Stop the violence first.


Stop the bombing and patrol of Iraq.


With today’s gains in the use of alternative fuels, develop them to full usage with autos and other utilities, to make the country less dependant on an already depleting natural reserve, oil.


By initiating peace, we would have already shaken the foundations of support for Bin Laden, and/or all those that sponsor activities like those we saw yesterday, and break the stronghold of extremists on the world of Islam. On the other hand, if we carry out bombings on Afghanistan or elsewhere to appease public demand, and very likely kill innocent civilians along the way, we’d be creating many more martyrs going to their deaths in retaliation against the retaliation. As shown from yesterday’s events, you cannot stop a person who’s ready to die.

[Guest Excalibur_Z]

http://www.msnbc.com/news/afghan_front.asp

Take a look at this site to learn more about Afghanistan and its corrupt and oppressive Taliban government. Afghanistans despise the Taliban because they have created horrible living conditions (read the link to see just what specifically is forbidden). There is a resistance force operating out of the Northeast section of the country, which is probably where American ground forces will get the majority of their help. The key goal is apparently overthrowing the Taliban and locating bin Laden, along with any other country who chooses to step up and defend Afghanistan's government. Removing bin Laden from the head seat of the Al-Qaeda group is crucial, and will most likely leave the remaining Islamic fanatics without leadership, thereby making them far less dangerous. Just thought you all might like to know the likely scenarios, and that America is not targetting Afghan civilians.

[Guest MyDemon]

No....

[YicklePigeon]

......long post.....head hurt from read....me go sleep now......arggggg

[mystic]

The last thing I want to see is more propaganda leading to the invasion of another soft target. I still remember all the other demonising propaganda exercises of the American intelligence and media agencies.

I have no love or respect for the Taliban or the USA, they can wipe each other out for all I care. They are equally evil, just the Taliban are less good at hiding it.

[Guest Scuba Steve]

Whatever Mystic

[Guest Scuba Steve]

Whatever Mystic

[inferno_45]

thata one fucked up cooment you asshole. rethink it.

[YicklePigeon]

US is just as bad, you dont read about it because it would cause outrage should it be printed or televised.

If you ever heard about US fighter's bombing innocent Iraqi soldier's under a flag of truce back in 1989 you'd know how I feel about the US. That's not to say everyone who is american is bad, just the politicians and the people behind the scenes are, they are the country, remember that.

Invasion of a weak country is not an option, no need to wipe out a country only to find Laden taking a cruise in the carribean.

And if you had brains and actually used them you'd know that mystic does'nt care what happens in another country. I dont.

Why should we? It's not truly OUR OWN PERSONAL FIGHT. In the end it's got nothing to do with ourselves and we dont want to die fighting for a cause we dont even believe in.

That's the whole point: if you want to die go ahead, I remember people saying Vietnam was a weak place, it lasted for years, got people on both sides wiped, all because the US stuck it's nose in where it was'nt wanted.

So go ahead, fight them, see if you come back alive sat in front of your comp typing out posting on Doomworld.

[Arioch]

Point is, he IS in Afghanistan, is KNOWN to be in Afghanistan, and the group that controls 95% of Afghanistan the Taliban is the group that claims to harbor or shelter him. This isn't about the US sticking its nose where it has no business, this is about revenge.

There is a famous Chinese saying which goes something to the effect ... "those who ally with me shall prosper, those who oppose me shall perish". Bush delivered that speech on Tuesday night.

It's death and destruction Usama bin Laden wants ... it's death and destruction him and his allies will get.

[Guest Gibbin]

sorry im a little late with this post...but i happen to agree with viper - they most definitely had a reason for bombing us - think about it - who do they hate most of all? israel right? and who does the US help at all cost, without a second thought? israel - they bombed us because we "are one" with israel - at least, thats what the US says...its more like we're tools of israel...

[NiGHTMARE]

<< War, rumors of war, famine, long burning fires, etc., are at our doorstep >>

There's been war, rumours of war, famine, long burning fires, etc THROUGHOUT HISTORY.

[YicklePigeon]

Arioch: I'm with you for getting rid of terrorist organisations, but other's in this thread propose to destroy the entire country and kill the civilians too.

If you've ever seen reports on how they live, you'll know the natives cant overthrow the "goverment" (I use that term sparingly) because they're too weak physically and emotionally.

But after seeing the picture's of them celebrating the destruction I can understand people wanting to destroy the entire country, but that's what Laden wants to do to the world.

But I dont want a World War, I dont want to be drafted sent to the front lines and get killed before I even reach 21.

Do you want to get killed? Do you think you'll be able to just walk in there and go *blam blam* all dead? Kill the leader's and their "goverment" and follower's die with it.

And I use the word "you" referring to anyone who reads this, not just you Arioch.

Now rethink what I've said previously, and what I have said now, dont get angry about something you could'nt change right now, dont get your spot's in a twist, no point just be calm, sit down, get a drink, and type calmly into the keyboard and one last thing...


....DONT BREAK YOUR ENTER KEY like I did when I got angry at my sister's sargeant major ways in Diablo!

[NiGHTMARE]

<< But after seeing the picture's of them celebrating the destruction I can understand people wanting to destroy the entire country >>

It's Palestinian civilians who have been shown celebrating, not the Afghans.

[YicklePigeon]

so noted! I'll keep that in mind for future posts

[Hyena]

Will you stop bitching at each other??

Some of you have really crossed the line, but most of you have valid opinions. And many of you are not respecting the opinions of others.

To summarize my thoughts:

The US government and military have been real pricks during the last century.
The US did *not* deserve this, and the civilians especially did not.

I'm a huge pacifist, but for once I have to agree with Bush's decision to make no distinction between the terrorrists and those who harbour them.
I just hope by "Those who harbour them" he doesn't mean an entire country. I don't want to see another 10000 deaths spring up, regardless of who they are.

[Arioch]

http://www.thephhortress.com/thankyou/

Tears are still coming to my eyes.

[Guest Omniverse]

It's time for the US government to stop caring what other countries think and bomb the hell out of any nation that harbors terrorists. The only way the US has been pricks this last century is by rarely having the balls to really do what needs to be done. I don't even have the capacity to deal with the stupidity that is "innocent Iraqi soldiers" right now, so I'll leave that be.

[Guest Gibbin]

tho i live in the US, i must agree with both of you - the US is not the perfect country everyone makes it out to be - it is portrayed as a country with so much nationalism and pride...however, such is not the case - the government hides so so much from us...and the media is even worse - there are many things we do not know about and will never know about - the secret relations the government has with other nations and the things they do for them...these will never be known to anyone - nearly everything is twisted by the media before it is presented to the public - mystic is most definitely correct in saying that "They are equally evil, just the Taliban are less good at hiding it"

[Guest Omniverse]

Also
http://www.petitiononline.com/CAAT/petition.html
for anyone who wants to get the word out.