another DOOM 4 thread

[DeathevokatioN]

Xeros612 said:

Sounds like someone can't stand a game that isn't run-at-50-MPH-and-shoot-millions-of-mindless-enemies-with->9000-explosions-per-second.

Sounds like a CoD fanboy who thinks hiding behind walls, mindlessly waiting for health to regenerate, only to wrecklessly run back out into the open like a depressed monkey to go soak more damage and return to the same wall to regenerate health again as being synonymous with "tactical gameplay". If you really think that's gameplay then I give up.

I'm just bored of EVERY SINGLE modern shooter being a different variation of the same dumbed down detail orientated ADHD paced snail rail shooter that hides behind false pretences of "realism" and "tactics" as reasons for dumbing down gameplay. So it would be refreshing for just once, for a new title coming out in the fps genre that proves my stereotyping about modern shooters to be wrong.

It's not my fault I don't fall for the regenerating health gimmick, everytime. It's almost as lame as making an entire game consist of dark corridors and rooms. ;)

And nice try, but DooM isn't the only game I play, the first Unreal had a great otherworldly atmosphere, and some kick ass gameplay to boot. Clive Barkers Undying was awesome last time I played it, although I'm not totally sure how it's aged.

Xeros612 said:

Something about atmosphere, horror, isolation, and overwhelming enemy forces.

And who says you can't combine this with fast paced action? That's what the original DooM does. Maybe your too fucked over your false generalizations of DooM to realize it.

Xeros612 said:

What I'm suggesting is more like a cross between the S.T.A.L.K.E.R. series and that Amnesia game everyone raves about

So you want a sequel to the pioneer of the fps genre to be an RPG exploration horror with sparse action? No thanks.

[Marnetmar]

Another thing I don't want to see is such a piss easy final boss. The soul cube/cyberdemon concept was a no-brainer for me, my health never went below 90.

[yellowmadness54]

Marnetmar said:

Another thing I don't want to see is such a piss easy final boss. The soul cube/cyberdemon concept was a no-brainer for me, my health never went below 90.

yeah, shoulda been an 8 year old with jail break and commando and last stand while another 12 year old screams at him over a head set.

Thats a hard boss fight, right thar!

[Xeros612]

yellowmadness54 said:

Quit startin flame wars.

The irony! It's overwhelming!

And it seems once again everyone's getting super butthurt over me not wanting a carbon copy of the original games to be released as Doom 4 and screaming "CoD fanboy!!!1111" and "hurr durr u wnt regen helth 2 fag?" over things I never even remotely said. I'm not surprised in the least bit.

[Marnetmar]

No need to get snippy, gentlemen. It is my job to troll both sides of the argument.

[yellowmadness54]

Xeros612 said:

The irony! It's overwhelming!

And it seems once again everyone's getting super butthurt over me not wanting a carbon copy of the original games to be released as Doom 4 and screaming "CoD fanboy!!!1111" and "hurr durr u wnt regen helth 2 fag?" over things I never even remotely said. I'm not surprised in the least bit.

You are actually getting under my skin.

No one is butt hurt.

I dont start flame wars here. Some have started from something I may have said, but I never start any arguments, atleast not the flaming kind.

And what you are asking for is infact a "carbon copy" of just about every game out today.

regen health, sprinting, and iron sites, and other things army man shooters have.

[Grazza]

yellowmadness54: You are posting way too much, normally with very little or nothing to say. Read the FAQ, stop trying to "dominate threads" and only post when you actually have something useful to say.

[Xeros612]

yellowmadness54 said:

You are actually getting under my skin.

No one is butt hurt.

I dont start flame wars here. Some have started from something I may have said, but I never start any arguments, atleast not the flaming kind.

And what you are asking for is infact a "carbon copy" of just about every game out today.

regen health, sprinting, and iron sites, and other things army man shooters have.

WHEN HAVE I EVER, EVER SUGGESTED REGENERATING HEALTH? Never. NEVER. Unless it's done really, really slowly so as to simulate natural healing of wounds, I don't want it in any game. I NEVER said anything about it for Doom 4. Stop making shit up.

Sprinting... Hey, dumbass! DOOM 1 HAD SPRINTING. What the hell did you think "run/autorun" did? Only difference is the new version makes you choose between fast speed and being able to shoot, instead of giving you your cake and letting you eat it, too.

All ironsights is is a way to aim the gun. It would be a replacement for Doom 3's shitty slight-zoom aim.

But hey, adding complication to combat systems "dumbs down" games, right? Better stick to the "smarter" game style of sprinting around firing reload-free guns at enemies with braindead AI.

"No one is getting butthurt" Really? Is that why you and Deathevokation are screaming at me while making shit up to scream at me about? Not butthurt at all, obviously!

[Coopersville]

Not being able to run and shoot gimps rocket jumping, which might be important if the game is made "right".

I have no problem with iron sights if it's just used as a means of slightly zooming in, and doesn't increase the weapon's accuracy stats or range.

[darkreaver]

Xeros612 said:

But hey, adding complication to combat systems "dumbs down" games, right?

No.

Xeros612 said:

Better stick to the "smarter" game style of sprinting around firing reload-free guns at enemies with braindead AI.

Yes.

;) (seriously)

[DeathevokatioN]

Xeros612 said:

Better stick to the "smarter" game style of sprinting around firing reload-free guns at enemies with braindead AI.

I already addressed this, but hey, CoD fans apparently can't read now. It's all good having a debate, but in order for a debate to actually be successful you're gonna have to try reading other people's arguments when making a response, and better yet; actually addressing them. It helps. Really. It does. And last time I checked, Plutonia had a lot more strategy involved in it than CoD's braindead levels which consist of "run forward, shoot complex but ultimately ineffective AI, hide behind wall, run forward." ""gameplay"". That shit gets stale quickly. DooM's enemies are some of the most diverse ever to exist and each one requires different strategies to take down and fills in a different niche, and they work surprisingly well in different combinations, wheras CoD you fight the same hitscan enemies over and over and over again in the same lackluster environments. Diversity! DooM is a lot more atmospheric than Amnesia or S.T.A.L.K.E.R. will ever be as well. Stop acting like atmosphere is an exclusive feature to crap modern "horror" games which consist of only stupid dark linear rooms that rely on "scary" images and shock value and slowed down gameplay to be "scary". Because it isn't.

Do you see strategy? I dont. It's obviously mindless killing "derp derp". Idiot.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xL4M4It8wAI&feature=related

Xeros612 said:

But hey, adding complication to combat systems "dumbs down" games, right?

Adding complications that slow the game down to a tedious crawl just so it can spoon-feed casual gamers who don't like a challenge, dumbs first person shooters down, yes. Ofcourse, it also doesn't help that CoD is linear from start to finish either. ;)

Xeros612 said:

"No one is getting butthurt" Really? Is that why you and Deathevokation are screaming at me while making shit up to scream at me about? Not butthurt at all, obviously!

Xeros612 said:

Sounds like someone can't stand a game that isn't run-at-50-MPH-and-shoot-millions-of-mindless-enemies-with->9000-explosions-per-second.

Heh.


Calling you out over expressing yourself like an obnoxious tard, who screams out at everyone elses tastes on a DooM forum who (GASP!) doesn't enjoy a dull and linear and soulless pseudo nu horror inspired detail orientated experience with 1 monster + 1 "scawy" image per dark room is not synonymous with being butthurt. But hey, we already discussed this before over here http://www.doomworld.com/vb/doom-general/53261-bad-habits-from-doom/ and since it didn't go through your thick skull over there it probably won't go through your thick skull over here. So I don't really see this discussion going anywhere.

[Snakes]

All I want is for Doom 4 to be a fun game. I don't care how it's executed. It's perfectly possible to integrate some of the aspects of modern shooters into a fast-paced environment. All it takes is a few sacrifices in "realism." For example, I'd like to be able to sprint AND fire my gun, but aiming could also be utilized (and sacrificed in running situations).

As it stands, though, I doubt I'll be all that excited over what Doom 4 will have to offer (and honestly, unless a miracle happens, my computer will be waaaaay out of date, anyways). The only reason I say that is because I didn't enjoy Doom 3 all that much.

On a side note, this is one of the worst threads I've ever browsed through.

[yellowmadness54]

Snakes said:

All I want is for Doom 4 to be a fun game. I don't care how it's executed. It's perfectly possible to integrate some of the aspects of modern shooters into a fast-paced environment. All it takes is a few sacrifices in "realism." For example, I'd like to be able to sprint AND fire my gun, but aiming could also be utilized (and sacrificed in running situations).

As it stands, though, I doubt I'll be all that excited over what Doom 4 will have to offer (and honestly, unless a miracle happens, my computer will be waaaaay out of date, anyways). The only reason I say that is because I didn't enjoy Doom 3 all that much.

On a side note, this is one of the worst threads I've ever browsed through.

I know its two flame wars.

One being on a guy calling me a dumb fuck because he believes final doom is a sequel and the two icons of sins from it are the new doom 4 enemies (lol)

And the other is this kid wanting DOOM 4: modern warfare.


Yes I agree with your points. Reload and shooting while sprinting would be great. I hate how games think its so hard to take a magazine out of a gun that you cant move fast while doing it.

I look forward to DOOM4, but at the same time I'm afraid to see how it will turn out with the games coming out today lately.

[Xeros612]

Way too much stupid in this thread. I am not suggesting anything Call of Duty related. I haven't even played Call of Duty outside of the zombie mode with some old buddies from high school, and I don't even fucking care about the series. Hell, half my videos involve me making fun of Call of Duty and its community. But ok, because I want some features that just so happen to be in Call of Duty(and guess what? They aren't exclusive to the series, and I'm pretty sure it wasn't the first series to have ironsight aiming, proper sprinting, etc. But I guess you're too fucking ignorant to get that, eh Death?) I must want "Doom 4: Modern Warfare" hurr hurr hurr. And hell, you don't know the first thing about Stalker, do you? It's one of the least linear modern FPS games out there. Hell, it's like Elder Scrolls or Fallout: only linear if you force yourself to only go along with the storyline and neglect the exploring aspect. Not to mention the atmoshpere of isolation and doom that Stalker offers, something the former USSR territories are good at. But no, because it's not Doom and made after 1998 it must be some linear corridor shooter with dark hallways, right?

And nice of you to post that video. Any game can be all "strategical" and "technical" when you create self-imposed challenges. Minecraft on peaceful can be difficult if you force yourself to do trick jumps off tall cliffs onto floating platforms with nothing but a long fall into lava below you. Speedruns are no more a true representation of a game's standard gameplay than a high ranking tournament played for money is. I never talked about self-imposed challenges or anything of the sort; I talked about the standard gameplay. But go on and twist things out of their actual meaning so you can insult me. I guess you're having fun with that.

@Yellowmadness54
Aren't you like, 14 or 16? You've got no place calling me a kid.

[yellowmadness54]

Xeros612 said:

Way too much stupid in this thread. I am not suggesting anything Call of Duty related. I haven't even played Call of Duty outside of the zombie mode with some old buddies from high school, and I don't even fucking care about the series. Hell, half my videos involve me making fun of Call of Duty and its community. But ok, because I want some features that just so happen to be in Call of Duty(and guess what? They aren't exclusive to the series, and I'm pretty sure it wasn't the first series to have ironsight aiming, proper sprinting, etc. But I guess you're too fucking ignorant to get that, eh Death?) I must want "Doom 4: Modern Warfare" hurr hurr hurr. And hell, you don't know the first thing about Stalker, do you? It's one of the least linear modern FPS games out there. Hell, it's like Elder Scrolls or Fallout: only linear if you force yourself to only go along with the storyline and neglect the exploring aspect. Not to mention the atmoshpere of isolation and doom that Stalker offers, something the former USSR territories are good at. But no, because it's not Doom and made after 1998 it must be some linear corridor shooter with dark hallways, right?


@Yellowmadness54
Aren't you like, 14 or 16? You've got no place calling me a kid.

I'm only going to quote some of this, because there is no need for another essay.

Everything you list is from army man shooters, specifically newer ones, and are things that only someone who play cod could possibly desire.

Where in doom do you see guns that even could be iron sited? The machine gun cant, chaingun cant, rocket launcher cant, BFG cants.

And sprinting animations would, as I said, just make it feel like CoD and all I'd wind up doing is sprinting through it.

[Xeros612]

yellowmadness54 said:

Where in doom do you see guns that even could be iron sited?

A decent chunk of the original weapons. Hell, in a sense all weapons were ironsighted in the originals. That, or the marine held them with his chest.

In the same aspect, Wolfenstein 2009 handled it well enough. The fictional guns did the zoom aim thing (that I still don't like, but at least it wasn't bound to something stupid like RS on the console versions) while everything else looked through the sights.

And CoD isn't the end-all-be-all of modern shooters. A lot of the features I've mentioned happen to be in it, but since I barely even touch the games proper anymore (what with getting tired of it after seven games, three of which I played online for) I'm not pulling anything from it. Plenty of other games I still give a damn about have these features, and are certainly a lot harder to play due to the lack of stupid shit like regenerating health (aside from BFBC2, which is kind of OK, if only because the community's too fucking stupid to realize the medic kit is meant for healing allies and suppressing fire, not going John Rambo with an M60 and Stalker, if only because the regeneration [outside of multiplayer that nobody touches outside of Russia] is really, really slow and is more of a simulation of natural healing of wounds than "breathe really hard and heal everything in five seconds"), hitscans, and laser accuracy.
(In fact, Vietcong had ironsight aiming half a year before the first CoD was ever released.)

As for "only people who play CoD could possibly desire", I can disprove that easily enough with one website link. http://www.gsc-game.com/index.php?t=community&s=forums&offset=240
Here's a community that generally hates CoD, most of whom don't play it. I don't see anyone there not wanting ironsights. In fact, on the contrary, they've made mods to restore ironsights to pistols for the second game in the series, and to fix ironsights for off-center guns.

Sprinting would only make it "feel like CoD" if CoD is the only game with sprinting animations you've ever seen. If you feel you'd just "sprint right through it", that's a personal gameplay choice you'd make. I never suggested the monsters in the game be pushovers, by the way. You can't even "sprint right through" CoD's campaigns, since without shooting you'd die instantly because the AI can't shoot them back for shit. (Probably taking what you said too literally here, but what the hell. It's more fun that way. :P)
As for reloading and sprinting, I fully support that.

[yellowmadness54]

Ok, well I'm clearly talking about doom 3 hinting why I said "machine gun"

and that link you show means nothing.

When I say CoD, it typically refers to any shooter made after 2007.

They say they hate CoD, but thats because they played games they think are better, but really are just CoD clones.

IE take the battlefield forums, half of it are kids who think BC2 is awesome and CoD sucks, only because they played BC2 after playing CoD.

When in reality, BC2 and CoD are practically the same thing except one has vehicles.

You are listing things a generic new person to FPS games would say.

[Xeros612]

Nice of you to not read anything on the link. And Battlefield is about as much like CoD as Kiss: Psycho Circus is to Doom 2. Same genre, but both play completely different. Hell, why not say Duke Nukem or Quake III or Serious Sam are the same thing as Doom except one isn't in 3D with vertical aiming while you're at it? Consistency!

Stalker is certainly not a CoD clone, considering it started development a year or two before CoD was even made. Your post is just showing massive ignorance of post-2000 games.

[yellowmadness54]

Xeros612 said:

Nice of you to not read anything on the link. And Battlefield is about as much like CoD as Kiss: Psycho Circus is to Doom 2. Same genre, but both play completely different. Hell, why not say Duke Nukem or Quake III or Serious Sam are the same thing as Doom except one isn't in 3D with vertical aiming while you're at it? Consistency!

Stalker is certainly not a CoD clone, considering it started development a year or two before CoD was even made. Your post is just showing massive ignorance of post-2000 games.

oh you have got to be kidding...

Especially about the first part.

BC2 is nothing like CoD?

Lol, ok
so

spec system is nothing like the attatchment system?
BC2's linear SP (unlike BC1) is nothing like MW2?

I honestly want to know, when did you start playing FPS games?

[printz]

Xeros612 said:

Only difference is the new version makes you choose between fast speed and being able to shoot, instead of giving you your cake and letting you eat it, too.

That would make the player no different to the monsters, who also need to choose like this.

[DeathevokatioN]

Xeros612 said:

And hell, you don't know the first thing about Stalker, do you? It's one of the least linear modern FPS games out there.

Refer to a few messages ago. :) Although I didn't mind Stalker and enjoyed it on it's first playthrough, it is more of an RPG with sparse action than an actual FPS. Doesn't really have much replay value. DooM has all the atmospheric and Love Craftian elements that I can possibly hope for but also provided a hard and sharp challenge and has addictive gameplay which lets the player choose his own game pacing as well as a very diverse set of environments which gives way for a lot of variation.

Xeros612 said:

Speedruns are no more a true representation of a game's standard gameplay than a high ranking tournament played for money is. I talked about the standard gameplay.

Disagree. Although even standard DooM gameplay outclasses every other shooter ever made, and Plutonia requires a lot of tactics just to survive. So that counts as standard gameplay.

Xeros612 said:

I guess you're having fun with that.

Nope, only when you started getting on your high horse and got prissy over everyone's personal taste who had negative opinions of CoD gameplay in the thread I gave a link to (in my last post) and you came and spread your resulting butthurt / vendetta from that thread into your first post of this one.

I agree this is getting stupid. You want atmosphere, I want something that is action packed and has atmosphere, diverse environments, and has replayability. Cool.

[Xeros612]

yellowmadness54 said:

oh you have got to be kidding...

Especially about the first part.

BC2 is nothing like CoD?

Lol, ok
so

spec system is nothing like the attatchment system?
BC2's linear SP (unlike BC1) is nothing like MW2?

I honestly want to know, when did you start playing FPS games?

You seem to be literally taking one sentence out of any given post and twisting it out of proportion to fit your means. Also, since when was MW2 the only linear FPS campaign? Christ, do you even think before you post? GAMES WERE LIKE THAT BEFORE 2009. Why do people here classify me as "the CoD fag" when you're the one comparing everything to it?

Battlefield had equipment in it for the longest time. Primary, Secondary, Gadget/tool 1, Gadget/tool 2, equipment slot 1, equipment slot 2, vehicle equipment is BC2's setup for such things; more complex than BC1 and 1943. Battlefield was also around longer than CoD.

And to specifically kill one of your "points", how do three specs/equipment slots, one of which can be used for one of two optics, relate to a specific ability to put one attachment on a gun? One spec slot having two optics available among unrelated items with two other slots not having anything to do with the gun's design isn't exactly a copied weapon attachment system.

And come on now, a fast paced twitch/connection shooter (post-2002 era) vs. a slower paced large scale combat shooter. Beyond shooting things, being in first person, and being owned by big name publishers, how are they the same game?

Disagree. Although even standard DooM gameplay outclasses every other shooter ever made

Your argument doesn't even have merit anymore. That's the most obvious blind fanboy response I've seen since some kid tried to tell me Halo was the best game ever made.

And if you think Stalker doesn't have replay value you probably haven't seen half the game, or touched any of the mods. People to this day are finding new things hidden in the first game. In case you forgot, most of the replayability of Doom comes from mods.

[yellowmadness54]

Xeros612 said:

You seem to be literally taking one sentence out of any given post and twisting it out of proportion to fit your means. Also, since when was MW2 the only linear FPS campaign? Christ, do you even think before you post? GAMES WERE LIKE THAT BEFORE 2009. Why do people here classify me as "the CoD fag" when you're the one comparing everything to it?

Battlefield had equipment in it for the longest time. Primary, Secondary, Gadget/tool 1, Gadget/tool 2, equipment slot 1, equipment slot 2, vehicle equipment is BC2's setup for such things; more complex than BC1 and 1943. Battlefield was also around longer than CoD.

And to specifically kill one of your "points", how do three specs/equipment slots, one of which can be used for one of two optics, relate to a specific ability to put one attachment on a gun? One spec slot having two optics available among unrelated items with two other slots not having anything to do with the gun's design isn't exactly a copied weapon attachment system.

And come on now, a fast paced twitch/connection shooter (post-2002 era) vs. a slower paced large scale combat shooter. Beyond shooting things, being in first person, and being owned by big name publishers, how are they the same game?


Your argument doesn't even have merit anymore. That's the most obvious blind fanboy response I've seen since some kid tried to tell me Halo was the best game ever made.

And if you think Stalker doesn't have replay value you probably haven't seen half the game, or touched any of the mods. People to this day are finding new things hidden in the first game. In case you forgot, most of the replayability of Doom comes from mods.

lol, its you who is twisting things I say.

I took what you said about BC2 and MW2.

There are linear campaigns, but then there is MW2 and games now, which is nothing but cutscenes and walking through 1 specific path.

Its like, super linear.

No game before 2007 was like this except medal of honor and some others. Halo 1-2 wasnt even like that.

[Clonehunter]

Out of the MoH games I've played, there are very few cutscnes, and they are all short and to the point.

[Marnetmar]

Fuck Rage id, what we really want news on is DOOM 4 for fuck's sake.

[Megamur]

I fully admit to having a hard time summoning up interest for Rage. Driving missions are one of my least favorite things about FPS games, so having one that revolves around racing just sounds dumb. I'm more interested in the game's engine than the game itself.

[Marnetmar]

>Go to id software's site
>Update from today
>More rage shit

GOD FUCKING DAMMIT.

[Snakes]

Marnetmar said:

>Go to id software's site
>Update from today
>More rage shit

GOD FUCKING DAMMIT.

I know... it's like, this is their closest big release. Why should they should be advertising it when a game that's waaaay further off in the future is being made? WHAT MADNESS!!!!

[Violator]

Probably going to suck as it seems ID is focusing its aim on casual gamers

[Megamur]

What makes you say that?