buttons or touchscreen?

Zaldron said:

In the end, this debate is senseless because the space dedicated to buttons could very well be occupied with a larger screen/another touchscreen, one which does nothing but show and act the same buttons it sought to replace. I used to like tactile feedback but I have a feeling it's more of a crutch and something you can grow out of. I mean no one misses manual carriage returns anymore.

Exactly my reason for accepting touch screen. The touch "keyboard" can be changed by the program, and there are no mechanical buttons to erode.

printz said:

there are no mechanical buttons to erode.

There are delicate electronics to damage, though :-p

It would be awesome if there was an accessory to add buttons to the iPod touch. Touchscreen is nice when gameplay doesn't have to be simplified because of it (I especially hate auto-acceleration in racing games), but developers have to be especially clever when designing the controls, and some games require the entirety of the screen.

I have an Android touch phone with PrBoom on it. It's pretty much unplayable with the touch controls. So are any emulator games you require reflexes for (eg: Advance Wars ok, Mario not ok). There are some things you really need buttons for.

I prefer buttons but a nice combination of buttons and touchscreen can be interesting.

This has been discussed elsewhere, but certain kinds of controls are already perfect for their intended purpose, just like tools such as forks, hammers, screwdrivers etc. are already perfect and intuitive for the taks you're going to use them.

Sure enough, you could pry out nails with a fork, eat with a scredriver or drive nails with a screwdriver's butt, etc. but it will be unnatural and inefficient, and not only because "you are preconditioned/used to so-called 'traditional' tools", but mostly because they just ain't the right tools for those jobs.

Similarly, platformer and fighting games where you need immediate, on-off purely directional controls and several action buttons are best played with direct-contact buttons driven by your most versatile appendixes, your fingers. Sure enough...you could adapt a touchscreen, a trackball, or even a mouse for such games, but you will be at a disadvantage. A touchscreen if OK for GUI controls, but just like you wouldn't use a joystick to use a GUI, you wouldn't use a touchscreen as an ersatz joystick: it will just suck donkey ass.

Lord_Z said:

I prefer buttons but a nice combination of buttons and touchscreen can be interesting.

Nintendo DS. 'nuff said.

What about point and click games like those quest games? Doesn't it help if you just poke over what you want to pick up? Sure you may damage the screen with your claws, but why not make the touchscreen work like laptop touchpad, depending on conductivity and thus mere contact, no pressure? That would solve the damage issue. And ensure that only a biological thing (or a zipper :P) would activate it...

Having never used a touchscreen mobile in my life, then I may ask, how do they work? Do you have to touch them, or push them? If push, that wouldn't make them better than buttons indeed.

Maes said:

A touchscreen if OK for GUI controls, but just like you wouldn't use a joystick to use a GUI, you wouldn't use a touchscreen as an ersatz joystick: it will just suck donkey ass.

Ok, real fast... I have my xbox360 controller set up through Xpadder to control my pc. Sure, it sucks for the internet, and for doing anything that requires any amount of mouse movement. Doesn't work too bad for media browsing though...

printz said:

Having never used a touchscreen mobile in my life, then I may ask, how do they work? Do you have to touch them, or push them? If push, that wouldn't make them better than buttons indeed.

It's contact not pressure, so people with big fingers like myself have HUGE click regions, and can get some funny results. The issue really only matters when you have small text/targets that you want to click. I know what you might be thinking; but what about a stylus? ;.; if only I could keep from losing them... That and I don't know if a stylus works on the newer touchscreens, I haven't dicked around with the iPhone too much.

printz said:

What about point and click games like those quest games? Doesn't it help if you just poke over what you want to pick up? Sure you may damage the screen with your claws, but why not make the touchscreen work like laptop touchpad, depending on conductivity and thus mere contact, no pressure? That would solve the damage issue. And ensure that only a biological thing (or a zipper :P) would activate it...

Point and click games where you need some level of accuracy would be better used with a stylus than with fingers.

And if someone is stupid enough to break a touch screen because he's pushing it too hard with a stylus he deserves to break it, too.


As to losing styluses, all devices that come with them really should have some way to carry the stylus around, whether it's a "hole" like in the Nintendo DS or some kind of a clip for the stylus. But if you lose your styluses when the device itself allows you to not to lose them...well... :P

Blargharghargh said:

It's contact not pressure

It should be so, but not all touchscreens are created equal. Also, there's no way you're going to keep a deliberately light yet precise touch during intense gameplay, unless you're a fucking shaolin monk or a korean professional gamer.

All types are unsuited for long, prolonged use, and their life expectancies are severely limited compared to e.g. joypads or keyboards. There are uses/applications for touchscreens, but these do not include past-paced games or "Be all, end all, one-off" replacements for joypads and keyboards. Unless you like the iPhone keyboard, and we all know what maddox thinks about it.

Maes said:

we all know what maddox thinks about it.

No we don't, and we don't care to know.

exp(x) said:

No we don't, and we don't care to know.

QFT

All I care about with a cellphone is these two things...

1. I can use it as a phone to call people on.

2. It can take a bit of abuse, being able to survive a fall to the floor and shit is necessary.

Everything other than these two are completely irrelevant to me.

Exactly. I've dropped my phone on cold hard concrete ground plenty of times, and I can still call people and send the occasional text message. And most importantly, it still tells time.

I think the mose useful featuer I've ever used on the phone was the clock come to think of it...

Maes said:

It should be so, but not all touchscreens are created equal.

Yeah, I've read they're either on contact (capacitive) or pressure (resistive). Of course, the latter has a mechanical component, so it may be like buttons. I "could care less" about tactile feedback; I'm not letting that get in my way. As for having to use a stylus, that defeats the point for me. I prefer they'd be more accurate where I press my (not large) finger, not need to use a tool all the time. In any case, when I think of touchscreens, I think of Doom 3 GUIs, not complex interfaces like games.

@Blargharghargh: I agree; ever since I got my first mobile phone, people got the ability to nag me. It's such a bliss to forget it elsewhere.

Lol, im sticken with my good old zaurus. Linux operated, pull-down physical keyboard, as well as a digital one, expansion slots, wifi,
= PWND

It isnt a phone, although you could probably make it one somehow(anythings possible wit linux :)


too bad they arent made anymore... this picture is of the one i have which is pretty ancient, but i still played doom and hexen on that old rig. not to forget that HUGE touch screen, landscape mode with quake was like a dream on that thing.