Community Chest 2 demos

Note that map22 is the same as Thematic Elements, for which Ryback made a good Max demo.

The map is apparently unchanged apart from a node rebuild, so while Ryback's demo doesn't work with the version in CC2, it should provide some useful ideas.

Another thing: due to a mapping error, anyone recording on CC2 map24 will need to use Zdoom (or else make a patch to amend the map).

Just my luck that my map is like the last one to get done, it's not that bad is it :(

Linguica said:

it's not that bad is it :(

Apart from the few inescapable death pits it was good.

Since I wanted there to be some kind of demo for map24, I did a UV-Speed for it in 1:58. Sending to Ops now.

Note: I used ZDoom 2.0.63a to record the demo.
Op edit: http://www.doomworld.com/sda/dwdemo/c224-158.zip

Ok, demo request time!

I really, really want to see a map28 maxdemo. I tried to do one earlier today, but got smacked down just after the BFG (Stupid, stupid rev >_<!).

Anyone who can do that, go for it. I dare ya ^_^.

I specifically put in all those barons on the floating cubes to thumb my nose at max speedrunners :P

I have a route worked up for map28 but not much time to do it. It's hard. The Barons are not that bad but the chaingunners in the end are from what I saw.

Linguica said:

I specifically put in all those barons on the floating cubes to thumb my nose at max speedrunners :P

I think that if your aim had been to make a demo-hostile map, you could have done a far better job than this. Secrets that rarely trigger, monsters that sometimes fail to teleport in, sequences of near-impossible timing puzzles and/or jumps, abuse of 30-second doors and other time-delayed events, etc. The possibilities are endless. :p

One of the three secrets can't be triggered afaik, but as irony has it, that's better than having a secret that's actually reachable but has a habit of not registering. :o

FYI, it's the switch secret in the RL room.

Vile said:

One of the three secrets can't be triggered afaik, but as irony has it, that's better than having a secret that's actually reachable but has a habit of not registering. :o

FYI, it's the switch secret in the RL room.

There is a way up to switch. Get an archie boost up to where the switch is (It's one of those fake walls you can go through).

Anima Zero said:

There is a way up to switch. Get an archie boost up to where the switch is (It's one of those fake walls you can go through).

I see. It's actually possible to trigger the switch without jumping into that alcove, but for true max runs, I suppose it's necessary.

Finally completed a UV Max demo for map 22 using Prboom 2.24. Already sent it to Op.
edit: http://www.doomworld.com/sda/dwdemo/c222-2650.zip

Marco nice job. You stayed busy in there.
I think that is a tough map, you did well.

All the demos that have been done for the mapset are great. I have been watching and re-watching them.

My personal thanks to everyone who have participated in bringing this demo set to its current state.

Anima Zero said:
I think 24 is impossible to do a maxdemo on since there's nowhere near enough ammo to get you through it.

Finally took the time to run DMTHA for map 24 today, here's what it says:

Found map: MAP24
Analyzing things for MAP24 of CCHEST2.WAD...

GENERAL MAP INFORMATION
Total number of things on the map:   2515
Total number of monsters on the map: 937

GAMEPLAY MAP INFORMATION
Total monster strength: 11532
Total ammo damage:      11384
[...]
DIFFICULTY ANALYSIS
Hitpoints/Health ratio: 8.12113
Hitpoints/Ammo ratio:   1.01300

This pretty much says that in order for the ammo given to last, you'll have to have optimal damage effects just about the entire time AND create infighting as well. So yeah, map 24 is likely too hard to do from scratch.

This leaves us with only map 28 left.

I sent a run of map28 to Doug. The time is 22:58.

I double-checked to make sure of the time and that it was not a false 100% kills. The archviles didn't revive anything, so I believe it's a true max. All that's left are skulls at different parts of the map that I decided to ignore.

Also, there was something curious regarding the map. Some of the monster teleporters had ammo inside and I don't understand why. If they were supposed to get teleported as well, it didn't work, so I dunno what that means. Maybe it only works in zdoom or something. :o

Born with a steering-wheel in his hands!... Vile: http://www.doomworld.com/sda/dwdemo/c2282258.zip

I checked in zdoom and those shotgun shells in the monster teleports were also teleported, so I guess there's a small handicap in prboom.

Anyway, I suppose that's a complete pack unless people want to improve times or give map24 a run. If anyone tries map24, keep in mind that it can't be finished in prboom due to a linedef bug.

Very nice demo Vile! Enjoyed watching it. I've enjoyed all the demos made for this set. Cudos to everyone who contributed! A very special thanks to all of the mapmakers as well. I'm sure I speak for everyone in saying that your work is very much appreciated by the Doom community.

Woot! The pack is done. Great work everyone the demos are great. Now to sit back and wait for Scythe 2 or any other good megawad.

Very impressive demo, Drew, as always!

Now that we have a full pack, I certainly wouldn't mind wrapping it up; just give me a few days. Of course, if someone more merited at these things wants to do it, then I won't get in the way. :-)

I'll have to check and double-check the demos, authors and times, and of course recieve comments about the pack/WAD in general and the specific maps from the recorders (If you just want to use the original demo .txt's then that's fine).

Improvements to existing demos are valid until, say, sometime next week?

EDIT: Here's a list for the UV max runs I compiled. Spot any errors? And BTW, should we include the miscellaneous UV speed/pacifist, NM speed, etc. demos?

map 1 Anima Zero 1:29
map 2 Angus 4:30
map 3 Angus 3:10
map 4 DeDo 10:34
map 5 Marco 30:45
map 6 Anima Zero 8:46
map 7 Marco 16:42
map 8 Anima Zero 9:47
map 9 Anima Zero 1:46
map 10 Kristian Ronge 3:18
map 11 Marco 9:47
map 12 Anima Zero 7:24
map 13 Anima Zero 7:51
map 14 DeDo 5:53
map 15 Anima Zero 20:04
map 16 Anima Zero 12:46
map 17 Anima Zero 5:29
map 18 DeDo 17:32
map 19 Anima Zero 4:11
map 20 Anima Zero 8:34
map 21 Kristian Ronge 7:24
map 22 Marco 22:11
map 23 Vile 10:54
map 25 DeDo 8:53
map 26 DeDo 8:55
map 27 Anima Zero 22:40
map 28 Vile 22:58
map 29 Marco 17:51
map 30 Anima Zero 3:15
map 31 Kristian Ronge 3:23
map 32 Vile 18:57

Well, so we're all done now eh? Nice! Time to get cracking on my comments...

General Pack Comments
---------------------
My first Megawad in which I have done some serious demo recording. It has been a great experience for me, watching the demopack come to where it is today. Overall, there are some great levels in this megawad, as well as some that aren't quite as good, but even those are fun to play through. I personally enjoyed the megawad. As for my favorite demos from the pack, I'd have to say all of stx-vile's demos. They were really fast and good (esp. map 23...my favorite map from CC2). Marco's map 05 and 11 demos were also great. Every demo in this pack is good actually, so enjoy.

Map 1- The Furnace
---------------------
A good level to start off with. Small level that flows quite well. Punching the HKs can be tricky, but I had no trouble with it personally.

Map 6- The View
---------------------
Nice looking level here. Starts out fairly difficult, but gets easier near the end. One bug seems to be present here that makes getting 100% secrets impossible. 80% is max.

Map 8- The Pit
---------------------
A filler level. It does look a little ugly in spots, but with a map that was released in the mid 90's, it was probably good back then. Level layout was nice (I liked the part with the elevator). Really crappy aiming at a rev here (7 SSG shots...new record I bet), but otherwise an ok demo.

Map 9- The Transformer
----------------------
Another small map. Good one too. Not very tough at all. Demo is fine IMO. Not much else I can think of here.

Map 12- Redemption
----------------------
Another filler map. Better looking than map08. Fairly difficult level. I'm happy with the demo, despite some missed SSG shots here and there. Also came close to dying at a few points (I'm as low as 2% health at one point).

Map 13- Annihilation Invention
----------------------
Fun map to record on. Room with a Soulsphere and several Mancos on platforms can be a toughie if caught off guard (I take 2 fireballs from one at point-blank range. That was a smart move). Demo is fine, except for one CG in the RL room who just would not die and a brief moment of stupidity in the RK room.

Map 15- City Heat
-----------------------
A complex non-linear level, as are most levels by TUD. This one was fun to record on as well. The first few buildings I enter are tough (Especially my kamikaze rush of several CG'ers to get the SSG), but after that, it calms down...right until monsters start teleporting into the main area. I then finish the building I am currently clearing (#2 in this case), then go outside to deal with the teleporting wave of enemies. As for the next 2 waves of monsters...they teleport in roughly 10 minute intervals (Wave #2 at 20 mins, Final wave at 30 mins into the level). That being said, I didn't feel like going slow just so the last 2 waves could teleport in, so I just shot for 75% kills (That should be the max assuming only 1st wave teleports in).

Map 16- Spirit World HQ
-----------------------
Another filler map. I like this filler map the best, since it looks nice all around and plays great too. The beginning can be a little chaotic with several enemies in alcoves shooting at you. After that, it eases up gradually. I had a really close call late in the map (Shotgunner came up a lift while my back was turned and my health took a major hit thanks to him). The part where I take out an Archie and some small fry in a dark room could be skipped altogether, as they will be killed by a crusher in the room. I didn't know that at the time of recording it, but I know now :).

Map 17- Through the Black
-------------------------
I did this demo mainly because Kristian Ronge thought his 6:06 for this level could be improved on. This was the result. Skipping all the monsters in the beginning is very tempting, since you will be returning there to gain access to the exit. The revs guarding the RSK should be killed from below and not from the windows, otherwise you'll end up taking lots of splash damage. I had a close call after taking the RSK, but otherwise not too overwhelming.

Map 19- The Marbelous Three
---------------------------
Real nice looking map. Also has some tough spots (Namely where you pick up the Berserk. It's easy to get swarmed by the teleporting imps here. Other than that, all went fine in this demo except for a couple low health situations. The ending surprised me. Just watch it and see what happens.

Map 20- Enigma
---------------------------
A nice hellish themed level. Grabbing the backpack right away can be tough with those cacos in the way. Otherwise rest of the level is easy. One secret in this level is reachable only in ZDoom, due to its handling of being hit by an archie (Increased height). Demo could be improved some as well.

Map 27- Gethsemane
---------------------------
Great CC2 map, and my 2nd favorite map from it (1st goes to map23, Death Mountain). The level is not easy at all. An early cyber battle had me dying several times thanks to it. The rest of the level after that stays challenging all the way. I almost get killed at one point, but I somehow got lucky and squeaked past that. Wasted some time near the end looking for health when I didn't really need it, but otherwise I'm satisfied with the demo.

Map 30- In Threes
---------------------------
A tough map30, mainly due to low ammo and health in the beginning. There's just enough to get you past all of the monsters. Miss, and you might be in deep trouble if you don't have good punching skills. Final area should be no trouble at all, thanks to 2 Soulsphere in there.

Kristian Ronge said:

And BTW, should we include the miscellaneous UV speed/pacifist, NM speed, etc. demos?

I'd suggest that they remain as standalone demos, given that there was no effort made to create a pack in any other categories.

I suppose the comments I included with my demos are good enough, though I never feel satisfied with what I write. I feel like I have to review the map AND the demo rather than just give a quick summary. :)

Here they are again, with some revisions for typos and whatnot.

Map 23 - Death Mountain
---------------------------
A rather intriguing and nostalgic level. Since the cave transitions are teleport lines, they allowed the use of some bizarre strategies, like ducking in and out firing a shotgun shell each time, while allowing the monsters to pool at one side of the room. I could also tell this was a level made by cyber-menace because he usually chooses megaman music for levels in his megawad project, although some of the choices ended up sounding rather obnoxious in Doom (Diveman, eh). Toxic Seahorse's music grew on me here, though. A winner overall, IMO. :)

This was mostly for Anima, who put a hit out on this level to be improved by any takers. I got lucky when some parts turned out more amusing than planned (the cyberdemon's plight), but the end balanced it when the final archvile refused to go down easily.

Map 28 - No Room
---------------------------
No Room is the name of the map... this can be interpreted a few different ways, but I myself prefer to call it "No Room For Error." The map has enough health and ammo to get by, but wasting it can be bad news no matter what the circumstance. In particular, a lot of rockets and cells should be saved until the end to deal with the barons in the yellow key area and the exit chaingunner traps respectively... that is, if you choose to kill everything. Casual players will have the luxury of ignoring those ammo-draining barons, though. :)

This run still felt experimental, but overall it turned out okay. There's a few blunders here and there (missing the soulsphere secret) but nothing disasterous to the time. There's also a few times where I should have died but got lucky, like the blue door archvile that had me reaching for the esc key prematurely. ;)

Map 32 - Sodding Death
---------------------------
This is a great map, and it seems to be quite popular as well. This is my first exit using this route and it wasn't too bad, I think. I exited with quite a few extra rockets, so that's one possible source of improvement here. Overall, this one is a bit tricky... there's at least two very low health situations in this run, as well as low ammo for a good majority of the start, so accuracy counts. :)

I did a much improved demo of map 22 if there's still time to get it in the pack. Time 22:11. Just sent it to Doug.
edit: http://www.doomworld.com/sda/dwdemo/c222-2211.zip

No problem, Marco, I'll replace the old one. :-)

Thanks for the comments, everyone!

IMPORTANT EDIT:

I've just finished going through all the demos, and found problems with two of them. The first one is map 15. There's an imp alive in sector 2407 (at around 864,1440) at the time of Anima's exit; it's one of those "sniper imps" placed high up in the windows. I was thinking since the map is so peculiar for UV max anyway with its time-based teleporting of monsters maybe this doesn't matter much? Anima, what do you think?

Alas, there's also one monster alive in map 29 at the time of Marco's exit (in sector 633). It's right at the end; it seems a monster falls off the ledge surrounding the exit (on the north side). Again, this is a minor flaw, and it's caused by monsters being able to fall off ledges in boom compatibility mode. Since that ledge is so thin it might be hard to prevent any monsters from falling off. :-/

So again, I think it's fair to let the author decide: Marco, what do you say?

Grazza said:
I'd suggest that they remain as standalone demos, given that there was no effort made to create a pack in any other categories.

Sounds fair. BTW, love your Pythonesque title... :-)

The recording of the demo for map 29 was not the first time I had had it happen where either an imp or a revenant is knocked off the back side of that wall surrounding the exit. It's tough in that you pretty much have to use either the rocket launcher or BFG to take care of the revenants on the wall. It's a rocket either hitting the revenant or hitting nearby that sometimes knocks him off. As far as the imps go, I've knocked several of them off with a single SG blast that doesn't kill them. Obviously once they fall off, there's no way to get to the bastards to finish them off. I'll be glad to try and record another demo for the map if necessary. I know some of the other guys mentioned about the level desynching on them when they tried to record.

Kristian Ronge said:

I've just finished going through all the demos, and found problems with two of them. The first one is map 20. There's an imp alive in sector 2407 (at around 864,1440) at the time of Anima's exit; it's one of those "sniper imps" placed high up in the windows. I was thinking since the map is so peculiar for UV max anyway with its time-based teleporting of monsters maybe this doesn't matter much? Anima, what do you think?

Really? Maybe my memory has gone bad, but I could have sworn there were no "sniper imps" in that level. Could you describe where in the level this sniper imp was (How the room looks)? Unless...the arch-vile revived something I wasn't aware of?

Map15 on the other hand...I admit there are two "sniper imps" left alive in the windows there. When you talked about "Time-based teleporting", might you have been talking about map15 instead?

If you are indeed talking about map20, then I'll kick myself. In any case, I can try to give it another crack if you'd like (If you meant to say map15, then I have to say I tried improving the time for that map and killing everything back a few weeks ago, but the demo desynched).

I recorded another demo for map 29 in hopes of being able to kill all of that last group of monsters without knocking anybody off the back of the wall. Time is 17:51. Wow, after working on the map 22 demo, going back to this map was very easy. This one should have no monsters left. Sent the demo to Doug already.

Anima Zero said:
Map15 on the other hand...I admit there are two "sniper imps" left alive in the windows there. When you talked about "Time-based teleporting", might you have been talking about map15 instead?

Of course I meant map 15, sorry, I must've had a brain seizure or something after watching so many demos... Map 15 and nothing else. Map 20 is fine.