Walter confetti Posted January 16, 2021 (edited) (Whoa, what a title! I'm already hyped just for it!) Hello to all, my name is Walter McGuire Confetti, you may remind me not from movies but for other reasons relevant here, and welcome to a fresh new installment of the moderately acclaimed "kylobite challenge!" This time we are in the mid way of the previous challenges, with only 96 kylobites to fill. With the 128 kb freshly completed, the crowd is asking for more! Hoping of don't leave this in a stasis like for Deadly Standards 3, let's just start this thing! The rules to follow are simple: Make a wad file under or equal the 96 kb file size limit. Your wad may contain anything you want (music, sprites, sounds, etc.), just stay in the file limit assigned. The only expection to it is a midi file you want to use for your map, if the size limit is hit. Post the midi file in midi format, don't add a new wad for it! For compressing more space in your wad, you can use this neat program: https://soulsphere.org/projects/wadptr/ If you are using a new sprite or using a dehacked lump, always write what are you going to change in your work! For example, if you have the changed the tree sprite or changed the Nazi for become a super fast zombieman that shots bfg, wrote it! Like the previous challenge, we are dealing with Boom compatible (-complevel 9), but the IWAD of choice is TNT: Evolution (tnt.wad) A universal texture pack is here to be used: https://www.mediafire.com/file/id2mtdgmvrl45fy/mudicewindTNTv2.zip/file Contains the plutonia and tnt textures (for also helping the people who don't have final doom) plus a lot of content from Patched Up, CC4 textures (the 32 in 24 variant), Gothic DM and other sources. Don't be afraid to use that line action 271/272! Lots of new skies are waiting you as well! You have 3 themes to choose, divided in "episodes" format. Here they are: A level based upon the title of any level of your choice from the idtech 1 (aka Doom engine) games, it will be from a commercial release or a user made wad,with the only expectation of maps made by you (for example, your map could be called "The Sky May Be" or "Sunlust" or whatever else, even HDoom if you like it). Show proofs that the level title exist by linking the original wad you've taken it. All the levels must be a original map and not a complete rip-off of the level you using for the title. Maybe add some minor homages in a secret area, but don't exaggerate. Free theme! Make any type of map that can be equal or under the 96 kb limit. A starving resource management level, where the guns, ammo, health and armor is lower than the enemies counterpart. A better explaination by vigilantdoomer from Doomer Boards is here for let you understand this option better: Spoiler Quote I had the following idea for more than a year already: a mapset made by the community where every map can be described as "frugal", that is, demanding resource management, both health and ammo. The inspiration behind this idea comes from two sources: - Maes often used this term ("frugal map") on Doomworld, including something he described as "frugal slaughtermaps", which are both slaughtermaps and maps with limited resources for player in the same time. In my opinion, though, most maps are not frugal enough, there is something I can describe "as not enough ammo starvation", it is when I can perceive that mapper has attempted to limit resources, but I still have enough. Examples of such maps include Ancient Aliens map01, JPCP map16 aka "Forlorn Defense Line" (Tatsurd-Cacocaco is the author). Given that the author of the latter is a speedrunner who holds a Compet-n record on UV-max run of the Ultimate Doom E4M1 (which is the archetypal frugal map indeed), I decided to do play it on UV -fast (didn't record, that was just casual play) after dying in 1/3 part of the normal UV run. (Yes, this decision is not completely logical, but I wondered - was resource placement an attempt at detering someone from attempt at beating it under -fast/Nightmare setting, seeing as it was not really THAT limiting on normal UV?) I eventually (after many abortive attempts) made it to the signature fight of the map (that is, the setup at the end that names the map and is very hard for UV -fast), where I finally died, but in this most successful attempt I have covered the majority of map I never reached before, that is, this segment I covered was done blind on UV -fast of the map that is actually considered to have resource management on normal UV by some people over at Doom Speed Demos forum, if I recall correctly. It was a truly bizarre experience, to survive this far on UV -fast with no foreknowledge, but the final segment was brutal, and I promised myself to repick JPCP later, but never did. I then thought how fun indeed it may be for those competitors at DWIronman, to have come into mapset far, and still be alive, with no certainty they will continue to have good luck... - In one of the DWIronman League threads, Bloodite Krypto made a rather hateful comment directed at "Hellfire: Dreams" mapset, which was made by a Russian mapper Shadowman. Specifically, this comment is here: www.doomworld.com/forum/topic/103767-the-dwironman-league-dies-to-hellfire-dreams/?page=2&tab=comments#comment-1958270 which attacks the mapset based on his attitude towards "resource starvation" aspect exactly. I, however, consider that it is legitimate to make a map centered around exactly this, and would really prefer to have a community project - especially a community project made by Doomworld community - that would promote the positive model of "resource starvation"-oriented maps, by way of being done by community, for the community, and thus of community and which would make it impossible to single it out as "those Russians have crazy mapping style" or called "shitty" and "obscure". The problem, of course, that I never joined Doomworld community nor have mapping experience nor experience at project leadership that is requisite for actually promoting a positive idea of frugality and thus broadening the definition of what kind of map is acceptable to have in Doom and within Doomworld community specifically. So I will let this idea into the wild then, hoping someone would pick it and implement it. The idea of the project can be defined as mappers making a frugal, resource management-oriented, or map with "resource starvation" that they themselves would enjoy playing. Some examples can be provided (perhaps, doomers can be asked to provide more examples) and I also mentioned some maps above (may add a map04 from Bloody Rust 2 to the list, by jawsinspace). For just as slaughterwads were once frowned upon and only defended by minority of doomers, but the attitude of players (including those that do not actually play slaughterwads) eventually improved and the slaughterwads became acceptable, so it may be possible to actually make frugal maps more acceptable, if such things are done with a positive attitude. Maes once used a phrase "finnish frugality formula", which he described as "2 shells for 3 imps". There was also a collection of ideas how to conserve ammo. I have two thread bookmarked on the subject, www.doomworld.com/forum/topic/90783-frugal-living-ammo-conservation-tips/ and www.doomworld.com/vb/doom-general/52340-your-abusive-slaughter-frugal-map-tactics/ . By the way, the first thread is in fact by 40oz , and both were done before the likes were introduced, which (the absence of liked posts) somehow seems to give off a friendlier atmosphere, even when insults are traded (some likes now appeared, though, which are years later after discussion happened). On a side note, "likes" feature seems to me to multiply the impact of insults or otherwise-legal-but-obviously-very-unfair stabs (your mileage may vary; I also thought about making thread about it a few days ago, but I'm not sure it is a good idea). Maps 10 and 20 must have a suicide exit, like how it was did for the 64 kb challenge wads Deadline is for September 17st, 2021 Have fun with this challenge! Sorry for not showing a wad yet, if i can do it in time it will be for... Some day in the near future Edited September 15, 2021 by Walter confetti : Postponed the deadline again 29 Share this post Link to post
Walter confetti Posted January 16, 2021 (edited) POST RESERVED FOR MAP SLOTS CLAIMING The slot choice is pretty much free for all expect for MAP15, MAP30 and the secret maps. Just tell for what of theme above you want to map Free theme! (MAP01-MAP10) Binoculars - SilverMiner Variances Alter Anyone - SilverMiner Ballast Breakdown - Jark Concerned Grey Wises - SilverMiner Running from 96 kylobites - D1m3 Mt S P E E N - D1m3 Procrastination Cave - Epictypholosion Fight on the boxing ring - D1m3 96 killer bites - Weird Sandwich MAP10: Duality - DukeOfDoom Bobby “lolmcswagger” TheV1perk1ller Starving resource management (MAP11-MAP20): MAP11: Vandalism - NeedHealth Limit puncher - SilverMiner MAP20: Spicy Map - The BMFG (walter edit) Villa Moderne - Captain Toenail Tnt maps 1 to 5 in 192 x 192 each - Philnemba Halls of Apophis - Captain Toenail No one can hear you scream - HitBoi Logicians Rodeo - SilverMiner MAP15: Bottle or Guitar - SilverMiner Chill of Carcasses - SilverMiner Dunn & Dunn Wads in name only (MAP21 - MAP30): Hell Keep - 7soul Black Rabbit - BoxY Metal - D1m3 The immost dens - Jark Sump - wydoomer Blood and Rockets - Weird Sandwich Tricks and Traps - D1m3 50 Monsters - DukeOfDoom Showdown - D1m3 MAP30: Last Call - D1m3 maxresdefault PasokonDeacon MAP31: Shifting Tombs - Bob9001 (No Health) MAP32: aardwolf - hitboi (Title map from other FPSes) Interested people in this thing: Walter Confetti SilverMiner The BMFG NeedHealth Roebloz Peccatum Mihzamiz DukeOfDoom P41R47 Epictypholosion Bob9001 D1m3 Jark Captain Toenail Philnemba maxresdefault PasokonDeacon Dunn & Dunn BoxY wydoomer sincity1000 HitBoi SilverMiner TheV1perK1ller Weird Sandwich Edited September 19, 2021 by Walter confetti 0 Share this post Link to post
SilverMiner Posted January 16, 2021 I'm taking the Nazi for dehacking hehe 2 Share this post Link to post
NeedHealth Posted January 16, 2021 I can do MAP01. I do an starving resource management level. 1 Share this post Link to post
NeedHealth Posted January 16, 2021 Are we supposed to use the doomu iwad or the doom2 iwad? 1 Share this post Link to post
SilverMiner Posted January 16, 2021 (edited) I'm making starving map (looks like guitar, has no ammo at all, has only 3 medkits, 1 secret backpack and a green armor that can cost your life, weighs ~47,4 KiB by now) @NeedHealth Doom 2, Final Doom 2 Share this post Link to post
The BMFG Posted January 16, 2021 my map has a fun little secret area in the room with the caco 1 Share this post Link to post
DynamiteKaitorn Posted January 16, 2021 7 hours ago, Walter confetti said: or a user made wad Wait... Can I straight up use my TMoD vanilla project as the title name? XD 0 Share this post Link to post
Philnemba Posted January 16, 2021 (edited) I have a question about this: Which Final Doom IWADS are use for each theme? 0 Share this post Link to post
Walter confetti Posted January 16, 2021 (edited) 6 hours ago, DynamiteKaitorn said: Wait... Can I straight up use my TMoD vanilla project as the title name? XD Yes, if you like... No, sorry. I'll add to the rules that you can't use your own works to the map titles. 6 hours ago, Philnemba said: I have a question about this: Which Final Doom IWADS are use for each theme? Theme one is for Plutonia, theme two is for TNT Edited January 16, 2021 by Walter confetti 1 Share this post Link to post
SilverMiner Posted January 16, 2021 3 hours ago, Walter confetti said: Always on MAP15, right? In this project yes 1 Share this post Link to post
Roebloz Posted January 16, 2021 I'm interested in making one of the secret level. Theme: Team Fortress 2. 3 Share this post Link to post
The BMFG Posted January 16, 2021 1 hour ago, Roebloz said: I'm interested in making one of the secret level. Theme: Team Fortress 2. 2fort? 1 Share this post Link to post
SilverMiner Posted January 16, 2021 The first version of my map "Bottle or Guitar" Slot map15 (you run map01 however) Music: Rise Against - Give it All Deathmatch not supported Coop - maybe but imho the players would gonna kill each other to get some food health and ammo Thing placement is the same on all difficulties I added two shells and a rocket and some medkits not to make player starving too much https://www.dropbox.com/s/2q5tw0ipa3kyq3k/Bottle or Guitar.wad?dl=1 If it doesn't fit overall wad, let me know (however it's going to be the first posted map here) The progression is the most broken thing here Spoiler To pass blue bars you can: find one of two different blue keys to do that, or not to find any keys at all and get around it lol To exit the level secretly, find the yellow card 2 Share this post Link to post
Peccatum Mihzamiz Posted January 16, 2021 2 hours ago, SilverMiner said: Spoiler The first version of my map "Bottle or Guitar" Slot map15 (you run map01 however) Music: Rise Against - Give it All Deathmatch not supported Coop - maybe but imho the players would gonna kill each other to get some food health and ammo Thing placement is the same on all difficulties I added two shells and a rocket and some medkits not to make player starving too much https://www.dropbox.com/s/2q5tw0ipa3kyq3k/Bottle or Guitar.wad?dl=1 If it doesn't fit overall wad, let me know (however it's going to be the first posted map here) The progression is the most broken thing here I played through your map on UV and completely missed the big fight for the blue skull key! Exited the level with the blue and yellow keycards and was a bit nonplussed that that was the secret exit. Right now I think the other way around might be sorta better: have it so that you need the blue and yellow keycards, and also the blue skull key (change to red perhaps?) in order to exit to the secret level? Otherwise you can skip more than half of the enemies and still go towards the secret level. And on that note: if you know about the teleporter you can still basically skip the entire level. To me that seems like a bit of a shame of such a pretty level. This is what I get if I skip all the fighting and just go for the exit: Spoiler I really liked the archviles with the chaingunners, something I had never seen before! It took me a death or two to realize that killing the chaingunners won't help me in that situation:P. Pretty arena around it as well, and I got shot in the back by arachnos whilst staring entranced at the prettiness of the secret exit! So: I love it. I just think that one or two things about the sequence of events could use some tinkering... 1 Share this post Link to post
Walter confetti Posted January 16, 2021 5 hours ago, Roebloz said: I'm interested in making one of the secret level. Theme: Team Fortress 2. What slot do you have in mind? MAP31 or MAP32? 0 Share this post Link to post
SilverMiner Posted January 17, 2021 (edited) (Doublepost lol, I'm writing from an unstable phone) Edited January 17, 2021 by SilverMiner 0 Share this post Link to post
SilverMiner Posted January 17, 2021 9 hours ago, Peccatum Mihzamiz said: I played through your map on UV and completely missed the big fight for the blue skull key! Exited the level with the blue and yellow keycards and was a bit nonplussed that that was the secret exit. Right now I think the other way around might be sorta better: have it so that you need the blue and yellow keycards, and also the blue skull key (change to red perhaps?) in order to exit to the secret level? Otherwise you can skip more than half of the enemies and still go towards the secret level. And on that note: if you know about the teleporter you can still basically skip the entire level. To me that seems like a bit of a shame of such a pretty level. This is what I get if I skip all the fighting and just go for the exit: Reveal hidden contents I really liked the archviles with the chaingunners, something I had never seen before! It took me a death or two to realize that killing the chaingunners won't help me in that situation:P. Pretty arena around it as well, and I got shot in the back by arachnos whilst staring entranced at the prettiness of the secret exit! So: I love it. I just think that one or two things about the sequence of events could use some tinkering... Thank you for the review, I think I'll make the secret exit require all 3 keys and do something with the teleporter 1 Share this post Link to post
DukeOfDoom Posted January 17, 2021 So, if I am going for the first theme, can I remaster a certain level from a megawad and name it after that level's name? 0 Share this post Link to post
NeedHealth Posted January 17, 2021 Oh, there's different styles? Guess I did an starvation map with mostly nature textures which I suppose is plutonia... could mask it with some metal textures i guess. 0 Share this post Link to post
Roebloz Posted January 17, 2021 16 hours ago, Walter confetti said: What slot do you have in mind? MAP31 or MAP32? Probably MAP32. 1 Share this post Link to post
NeedHealth Posted January 17, 2021 @Walter confetti and @SilverMiner the SW2FSK2 and SW1FSK1 doesnt animate? 0 Share this post Link to post
DukeOfDoom Posted January 17, 2021 Speaking of textures: I doubt a wall texture would fit perfectly for the ceiling. 1 Share this post Link to post
NeedHealth Posted January 17, 2021 @DukeOfDoom It might work as indented ceiling lamp though 4 Share this post Link to post
Walter confetti Posted January 17, 2021 5 hours ago, DukeOfDoom said: So, if I am going for the first theme, can I remaster a certain level from a megawad and name it after that level's name? No, it must be a original work, only the level title is taken from a already existing source. 2 hours ago, NeedHealth said: Oh, there's different styles? Guess I did an starvation map with mostly nature textures which I suppose is plutonia... could mask it with some metal textures i guess. No worries, you can make using the style you want! @DukeOfDoom is a zdoom (?) exclusive LUMP put by SilverMiner called TEXTURE that modifies a little some textures by changing color, about the SW*FSK* textures I'm not sure what happens here... 1 Share this post Link to post
