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kristus

id's Rage At Shacknews

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Shacknews posted an article where they talked to Tim Willits and Todd Hollenshead about id's new IP Rage. The talk is about influences as well as design strategies of past and current id, as well as what you will be able to expect from Rage.

Rage's foundation, definitely, is first person shooter, because that's what we do best. But we wanted to change what people expect from an id first person shooter.

Read more about it at Shacknews.

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Ah, from the heading I imagined Carmack had acquired emotions and got somehow enraged with Shacknews over something...

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It might be interesting, but it sounds like driving, and completing competitions, etc... while driving is going to be a large part of the gameplay. I would be fine with just using a vehicle to get around in, and maybe do some raid attacks on caravans or something, but I've never been much for racing games. It'll still be interesting to see how they pull it off, especially considering how different it is from what they've been doing for the past... 15 years. And hell, if the main character gets to say "Two days ago, I saw a rig that could haul that tanker. You want to get out of here, you talk to me." then I'm sold. The prospect of a post-apocalyptic wasteland first person shooter in a very large, free-roaming environment is very exciting, I just hope most of the driving contests aren't mandatory. Plus there's the fact that driving games control like crap on PC's.

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myk said:

Ah, from the heading I imagined Carmack had acquired emotions and got somehow enraged with Shacknews over something...


The joy of playing with words. ;)

However I wonder why the person who accepted the news to the front page changed all the i in Id to lower case. It's not exactly how it's supposed to be written, even if that's how they did it in the logo. Are we back to writing Doom "DooM" now too?

I realize that my english is far from perfect, but there's no reason for people to edit it to be even worse, now is there?

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Actually... it's tricky, if I recall, despite id being a proper name, the company writes the product as a lower case... so a lower case i in this case is proper. Like you wouldn't see IPhone.

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Well, I spell it "id Software", just like they do on the site. The DOOM titles are all upecase, as well, except when formatted occasionally. And it may yet be RAGE, instead of Rage, we'll see. Carmack himself usually refrains from using upper case much (my theory is that it's because posts and messages by programmers and other intensive computer users are often all lower case, since they are used to typing many and quick messages, and they end up disliking caps in general).

It's curious how the Wikipedia strongly uses id Software, but puts DOOM as "optional". The excuse that "DOOM" is "improper English" in regard to a name applies also to "id". In fact, id is more inconsistently cased than DOOM is, in official text; sometimes it's ID, for example. The cause, in my opinion, is the prejudice I noted above, against capital letters.

People even start sentences with "id". I'd rather capitalize it then (I think that should be done to my nick when it starts a sentence, as well, for example).

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myk said:

sometimes it's ID, for example.


I've always assumed that people who write it like that is mistaking it for an acronym.

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kristus said:
I've always assumed that people who write it like that is mistaking it for an acronym.

They've used it in many license texts, specifically.

The id logo back when Wolfenstein 3D was being made was similar to the one used with DOOM (yellow over blue), but used capital letters.

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You'll find it on older titles, but those titles are all old, Doom and previous. Since roughly Quake, all id titles spell it as all lowercase, "id". This is reinforced by id's own website always referring themselves as "id". It was a specific design change and the formal adoption of their official logo as it is seen today... all lower case.

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Scuba Steve said:
You'll find it on older titles, but those titles are all old, Doom and previous.

The license spelling exceptions aren't necessarily from old documents. Not that I'm arguing that it isn't "id Software", since I agree with that; I was just poking at the inconsistency in the Wikipedia articles (taking id for granted even in a way that is quite awkward in regard to the way English is written, but putting DOOM on a second plane).

Relatedly, here's a major news outlet using lower case "id", but capitalizing it at the start of a sentence.

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As far as I know, when lower case lettering is the required brand name... it is appropriate to spell it lower case in all instances. iPhone and iPod would fall into the same criteria.

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Scuba Steve said:
As far as I know, when lower case lettering is the required brand name...

It's not a brand name (that would apply to DOOM), but a company name. It is not appropriate to begin a sentence with a lower case letter (unlike all upper case, that can be used anywhere for emphasis or whatever). If a name begins with lower case, it should be capitalized at the start of a sentence. If someone thinks their (or someone else's) commercial product or company name must never be capitalized for some reason, they should never start a sentence with it, putting a word before it or rearranging the grammar. I can understand writing "id Software" as the Wikipedia article's title, to mark the exception in regard to common names (as one would expect a proper name to be capitalized), but all in-context instances of sentences starting with id should be capitalized. Man, if one were to capitalize id in every instance, there wouldn't be a problem.

Heh, the companies most likely to use "leet speak" in their product names are indeed "nerd" companies. Many others tend to capitalize the names properly, and often type them in italics and/or add the TM sign when they mention their brands.

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Holy fuck, myk, you are fucking batshit insane and I pity anyone who has to live with you or correspond with you in real life. Do you seriously just sit around and nitpick the shit out of every possible thing anyone in the world says?

For fucks sake, arguing BRANDING? For all intents and purposes... I'm 100% right in calling it a brand They BRAND their games with the logo... they designed a BRAND name to give their products. For shit's sake... you bothered to even try to call this out?

http://www.grammarphobia.com/blog/2007/07/i-in-ipod.html

I wrote that, "As far as I know, when lower case lettering is the required brand name... it is appropriate to spell it lower case in all instances" and apparently... the 'The Chicago Manual of Style' doesn't even know... but Whee out of the sky swoops myk to give us the facts... With straight talk and no ambiguity that you can't leave it lower case! (never mind the English language does whatever it wants)... I am JUST as right on this as you are... except I declared mine to be opinion where you blatantly disagreed and state your "facts"

For the living fuck of it all, I'm not mad or trolling you myk... but seriously, what the fuck do you do all day... look for shit to nitpick even if you don't have a clue?

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Scuba Steve said:
They BRAND their games with the logo... they designed a BRAND name to give their products.

The brand names with the company logo, which is also a trade mark of theirs, yes. Here we're talking about writing the name of the company on articles, posts, news updates, wikis, and so on, though. We aren't id Software.

the 'The Chicago Manual of Style' doesn't even know...

It pretty much agrees with me, from what you linked.

never mind the English language does whatever it wants

I'm quite aware of how language works, obviously, but as far as editing and formatting goes, one naturally takes determinations for quality and consistency.

you blatantly disagreed and state your "facts"

What do you mean by facts? "Should" is evidently imperative, in reference to the normative spelling I'm defending.

I'm not mad or trolling you myk...

I'm not sure about the former, with you frothing reply, but if the latter is trolling, it's pretty poor. If I was trolling, on the other hand, it was great, because you practically exploded.

kristus said:
I realize that my english is far from perfect, but there's no reason for people to edit it to be even worse, now is there?

I guess I agree in the end, or in a way you convinced me or made me look into it a bit more observantly.

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Spending time with myk is like living in some Escher shit. Up is down, black is white and you have no idea where the fuck it's going!

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Haha myk reminds me of somebody I know, being all meticulate and proper. He also reminds me of Hermes from Futurama, where everything is stamped exactly 5 times and everything is organized etc. etc. It does a get a bit over the top at times, but society needs a couple of people like you regardless...

Anyway... I think if the 'i' in id was printed uppercase in an article or whatever, it would be awkward, since officially it is lowercase. It is id software. I agree, words do need to be uppercase when starting a sentence, but in same way a name is always upper-case (if being really proper about it, like my friend Mike), then if a name is lower-case, it should always be lower-case. myk may think differently, but I've deliberatly started the sentence with myk to show my point, in that your name starts with a lowercase 'm' anyway so it's left lowercase.

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Seeing as how id have used ID, id and I think Id and iD too in places (not so sure about the last one - but I think I have seen it in an official doc somewhere) and, I understand, it's meaning has changed during the course of its history too, does it really matter what we do?

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Enjay said:
it's meaning has changed during the course of its history too, does it really matter what we do?

Yep, it's styling to mark their company name (trade mark). We don't need to use it, nor will have any problems not doing like they do and merely treating their name as a proper name. Various sources, including Dave Kushner's book on the Johns, and various news articles on online (mainly nongaming) publications bother to keep the lowercase but capitalize it when necessary.

BoldEnglishman said:
Haha myk reminds me of somebody I know, being all meticulate and proper.

It's not that, since I'm pretty informal and even rather anarchic. But when it comes to language I can be pretty exacting, given the circumstances (such as analyzing something or judging how it's edited). Linguistics and literature as more or less my prime subjects of interest, after all.

in that your name starts with a lowercase 'm' anyway so it's left lowercase

I've tried that myself at times, but look how it blurs the function of the period. We're quite used to using periods along with caps to break sentences. Not doing so will force us to look twice to see if it's a comma or another sign, so it's pretty awkward.

Spending time with myk

Dream on; your masochistic desire to spend time with me won't be happening in this life. I'm sure some myk awaits you in hell, though.

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myk said:

Dream

If only I had the foresight to dream of such a place, but that is illogical. We all live on Earth and must cooperate.

myk said:

on;

On is correct, but a semicolon was not entirely necessary in this instance.

myk said:

your

Your thoughts are intriguing, but it is not celear who "your" is referring to... an individual? A group of people? Please elaborate.

myk said:

masochistic

I have no desires to harm myself, and living with you would hardly be masochistic. Don't be so hard on yourself.

myk said:

desire

Desire is one's longing to have and want... implying I want to "Have" something with you... which might be entirely possible.

myk said:

to

See my previous response.

myk said:

spend

I hardly call it spending... merely trading. I would trade my time for some of yours. In this regard, it is hardly "spending".

myk said:

More stuff

I'll reply more, tomorrow, on the remainder of your reply.

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This actually looks pretty interesting. It's nice to see id trying something a bit different after a decade of capitalizing on stale ideas.

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If you read the interview you see id is quite obsessed with "making something fun to play". They also talk about the Romero days in a different context. But I read that while developing doom they played deathmatch for fun. Now each team try to have fun playing the game and organizing mini-competitions and so on in that garage game.
Also doom was some kind of synthesis game for it's time and it looks like garage tries to synthesize two different game forms. (fps and race).

edit: Justin Fisher made an Escher map. It's the second one here. Of course you know that otherwise I do you a great favor.
It's just that interpreting someone as an Escher painting and that someone played a game which was an interpretation of an Escher painting. I regret Borges is death.

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Coldfusio said:
If you read the interview you see id is quite obsessed with "making something fun to play". They also talk about the Romero days in a different context. But I read that while developing doom they played deathmatch for fun. Now each team try to have fun playing the game and organizing mini-competitions and so on in that garage game.
Also doom was some kind of synthesis game for it's time and it looks like garage tries to synthesize two different game forms. (fps and race).

It's somewhat ironic. Willits takes his expected swipe at Romero, but philosophically the development seems to have some touches Romero would recommend. Also, the company has been expanding in a somewhat Romeroish way.

I regret Borges is death.

He was a great author, and very insightful, but no one lives forever (although writing is sometimes interpreted as an attempt to do that, in a way).

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sargebaldy said:

This actually looks pretty interesting. It's nice to see id trying something a bit different after a decade of capitalizing on stale ideas.


Actually they prefered lowercasing on stale ideas

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