Claustrophobia 1024 -- Fixed version released!

[Mik57]

Yeah, it was meant for the MAP32 slot. Its the reason why you leave the level with 200 health and armor, and every weapon.

But if you want to move it, just take out the megasphere from the end, replace it with some medkits or something, and it will probably be fit for any map slot after the bfg is normally obtained.

[[name_withheld]]

Yeah, it appears to be inactive. Here's links to version 8 of End of the Line and a slightly modified version of The Process. If these go dead before you get them I'll go ahead and email them to you.

End of the Line:
http://www.filesavr.com/kk33-endoftheline-version8

The Process:
http://www.filesavr.com/kykaandkk33-theprocess-version2

Oh, what version versions do you have of all of my other maps? That way I can delete older versions and what not on my HD.

[Mechadon]

@Mik57: Alright, I'll do that. I'm still not sure if it's going to be moved just yet though :)
@KingKill: Thanks! Here's what I've got from you:
- Stagnant Depot (v5)
- End of the Line (v8)
- Complex 4K (v1)
- The Process (v2)

I know sometime in the past you changed the name of one of your maps and I was getting it confused with it's newer version. Hopefully that's right though.

[[name_withheld]]

Yep, all the names are right. :D There was also 'Into Hell,' but that's an overflow at the moment, so no need to worry about it.

[Jodwin]

Well I don't really want to steal anyone's spot, so there's really no need for any kind of "special arrangements." (Unless you (Mek) yourself think it's better for Claus, but I digress.) Skyscrape could just as well be on some other spot if the secret maps are taken I guess.

Anyway, I've got what I'd like to call "final version number 1." I added a little bit detail, some geometry changes that no one will notice unless you go comparing different versions on a 2x2 grid, small item changes and last but not least fixing some big problems with the 3D bridges that had eluded me. I noticed by accident that if you were standing under the previous bridges you were by all means invisible to the enemies, meaning for example that in the crate area you could run under one of the bridges and snipe every monster from complete safety. I fixed this by implementing the actual bridge as a loose grid of 2x2-boxes, tight enough to not drop the player down but loose enough to prevent the AI-abuse. There's also the secret exit in this version. However I guess even if the map won't make it to 31 the secret exit could be left there, since in maps other than 15 and 31 it just takes you to the next level so there's no harm in keeping it.

There are some visual problems in the room with the chaingun and bridges on the south wall. I'm not sure what exactly is causing them, the bridge or the wall decoration, so if someone who's got a degree in Doom visual anomalies (:)) would want to take a look at it so that I might get it fixed, I'd appreciate it a lot. Still, it's far from a game breaking bug so it's not very serious either.

link:
http://www.akinomori.com/stuff/jodwin_SkyscrapeIV_v1secretexit.zip

[Solarn]

Holy crap, this is still going? That means I can get back into the swing of things and fix my map in this.

[Jodwin]

Now that I've got Skyscrape out, I'd like to give map30 a shot. :D I've got some ideas brewing, maybe I'll have an early playable version within a week so we can see if it's worth continuing working on.

Maybe. :)

[esselfortium]

I played one of the betas of Skyscrape a few days ago, when trying to help out Mechadon with some weird stuck-player issues that turned out to be a corrupted /base/ folder in his Eternity install, and I've got to say....it's horribly cramped. And really confusing. I loved your other map, but I didn't much like this.

Sorry :(

[[name_withheld]]

I personally didn't find it too confusing or cramped. One man's problems are another's rewards I suppose. :p

[Jodwin]

Well I guess it can be a bit confusing when played for the first time. I'll see what I can do about that, maybe try to add some hints for where to go. Could you be a little more specific on what parts exactly were confusing? On cramped, well I guess two of the "paths" have slightly cramped fights, but that's mostly by design. Half of them have bigger more spacey fights while the other half is slightly tighter. Still nothing I'd necessarily consider as a clusterfuck. ;-) Again, if you could be a bit more specific I could take a look at it.


EDIT:
Skyscrape IV V2 Secret exit/Less confusing:
http://www.akinomori.com/stuff/jodwin_SkyscrapeIV_v2secretexit.zip
This might be as "less confusing" as you can get with this map: Changed door textures so that the small doors which can be opened with switches only have different textures than normal doors (only exception is in the metal room since the door there can be opened normally from one side, and I didn't feel like giving one door two different textures :P), added a lot of hint arrows which point to where to go, changed the texture of the pillar blocking the lift in the round room to metal so that it's easier to see when it's raised, lowered the other lift in the same room by 8 units so it's easier to see when the door is opened and in the force field fight the hell knight door is now animated once you shoot the computer to show that all you need to do is wait (and stay alive).

[Kyka]

I had a good play through 'Skyscrape" and I did find it a little confusing. But mostly I really liked it. The gameplay was pretty good, and the visuals were really unique, but mostly what made it a little confusing was the visual design more than the actual layout/gameplay itself. I will have a play of this new version soon.

Thinking about the visuals, I am not usually a fan of mixing really old rusted out brown metal (the support pillars etc) with really modern gray - techbase areas. It made the visuals seem somehow unfinished, at least to my eye, and was a part of the cause (imo) of the slightly confusing progression.

But the level is really unique and nothing there that couldn't be fixed relatively easily. :)

[Maes]

I helped Jodwin playtest Skyscrape through its various incarnations, and I didn't find it in the least "cramped" as in "unplayable". Of course it's not an open space rocket arena map, and don't forget it's a 1024 map. That being said, I've never held back any comments on anyone's mapping, and especially Jodwin's.

For me at least, Skyscraper played smoothly until the end no matter which path I chose first, and the "cramped" parts (mostly bridges and narrow passageways that connected important areas) had maybe a couple of monsters just for the surprise factor, it's not like you ever had to fight a couple of barons with a RL at close range with no option to bail out/retreat. Jodwin really managed to squeeze in an incredible amount of environments and variety in the allowed space, and there are a couple of areas that are, for the lack of a better word, FREAKING BIG ASS HUGE (and the heaviest fighting is in those areas).

Ammo and health were also surprisingly balanced for a Jodwin map (compare to Hell Sewage which has a lot of cramped fights, rationed ammo/health AND heavily damaging monsters to fuck you up during those fights).

[Joshy]

Joshy approves the Skyscrape map!

Just played it, survived all the way without dying, took me around 16-18 minutes, which is great for a small map! The light-arrows helps a lot, it maintains the fun of the extensive searching in the map. Very clever layouts (and details of course), IMO nothing beats good layouts and architecture, which is what I like to focus on my maps in general. It was certainly not that confusing. What I classify as confusing is Map11 of Plutonia 1 and 2 (Hunted and Arch-violence), and skyscrape isn't that much confusing in comparison.

However, one HOM caught my eye. Tested with Skulltag software mode.


Anyways great stuff Jodwin.

And how many maps do we have for certain on the approved 1024 list?
Keep up the good stuff guys!

[Mechadon]

I was about to post my feedback for Skyscrape IV, but Jodwin has already updated it again :P. So I'll play through the new version first and hold off my comments until I'm done :]. I've also got some feedback for a few other maps...gah, I'll get to them eventually.

@Jodwin: I've signed you up for MAP30!
@Joshy: I think we're somewhere around 20+ maps (really, I'm still pretty disorganized from my break from the project, so I don't know for sure). But we're doing pretty good :)

Also, I've been meaning to make another update to the texture resource...though I have been dreading it a bit. There's another 24px wide wood texture that needs fixing and I also need to re-add the stock/tweaked Doom/Doom2 patches to fix some missing textures in older submission. Oh, and some of the greens were borked...again :/

[stewboy]

I made a third map, called 'Pit of Sludge'. It doesn't have any music yet.
http://www.speedyshare.com/215794949.html

Mek, did you get my other two maps I sent you?

[Mechadon]

Oh nice, I'm grabbing it now. Also, I don't think I got your two other maps :/. Resend them if you can.

*edit*

I've got a pretty huge post full of feedback for various maps coming shortly.

[Mechadon]

(be forewarned that this is a huge post)


Ok, feedback inbound! I'll be covering 4 maps - 'Skyscrape IV', 'Complex 4K', 'End of the Line', & 'The Process'. Those are really the only ones I have time for at the moment; I had to scrape myself from Doombuilder just to do these :p. Also, as far as I'm aware, I'm testing the latest versions of each map. If anyone spots something that is out-of-date, please let me know so I can hound said author of the map for the latest version. I tested all of the maps on the easiest difficult setting (to preserve my sanity) with the latest version of Eternity unless otherwise noted. Most of what I'm going to be saying will relate to layout aesthetics, but I will also be pointing out some bugs that I found. To aid me in my suggestions I took a slew of screenshots (because I can better describe something visually). I know some of this will probably come off as nitpicky so please bear with me! I'm only pointing out some of the things that I found troublesome or annoying. Also I think this is should go without saying but please don't take offense to anything I say! I'm not trying to put down anyone's map; quite the opposite, I'm trying to give constructive feedback with as little bias as I can manage. So let me get started with 'Skyscrape IV' since that's what most of your are already discussing.

Also, please forgive any typos/misspelling/bad grammer that you may come across. If something doesn't make sense, let me know and I'll clarify. I typed most of this at 5 am in the morning so there's bound to be some weird sounding stuff :P

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Skyscrape IV
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

This is a hard map! Which is probably a very fitting theme given the slot it will likely take (MAP31). I know the very first time I played it (which was that first release candidate, I believe) I was having a horrible time trying to stay alive. I decided that any future attempts of me finishing the map would be on the easiest difficulty. Don't take that as the map being too hard...I just suck :p. However, like essel, I also found it to be a little confusing...at first. The second time I played through it I found it much easier to figure out what was going on, though I think some areas could be improved to make navigating around a bit more smooth for first time players. You definitely don't want to set a bad first impression for a player, even if some players don't have as hard of a time first go round. I really enjoyed the non-linearity of this map...which I think is this map's strongest point. I imagine it was pretty difficult to figure all of that out...and I think Jodiwn did an excellent job in this regard! Generally speaking I found the core gameplay to be pretty balanced, so most of my critiques will be focusing on aesthetics. Overall, I like this map. There are just some areas that make parts of the map really annoying and they detract from the fun that could be had. So let me get on to the specifics.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v63/Mechadon/Map%20Screenshots/etrn00.png
Given the nature of 1024 maps (especially this one), I think it's very critical to build decorations inward instead of outward. In this screenshot there are two computer panels; these were pretty obstructive to my movements. Since this particular room sees quite a bit of action, I think it would be a good idea to either move these into the walls behind them, have them come from the ceiling, or just remove them.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v63/Mechadon/Map%20Screenshots/etrn04.png
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v63/Mechadon/Map%20Screenshots/etrn08.png
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v63/Mechadon/Map%20Screenshots/etrn10.png
I believe the same would go for these decorations as well. essel has a pretty neat tip that I use pretty often for decorations such as these - http://www.doomworld.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=740288#post740288. I think that would definitely work in this case.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v63/Mechadon/Map%20Screenshots/etrn03.png
This room in particular drove me nuts for a few reasons. Since this is another focal area in the map, this area really needs to be thought out differently. It's cramped and the general design makes it hard to move around effectively. Those two pillars on the left and right which house switches should probably be removed. You've got a pretty good sized room to play around with so I think you could easily relocate those switches in the pillars. Secondly, I would consider removing those very thin walls. I know there's an archvile fight in here, but if you rearrange this room you could probably keep some sort of cover for the player. A suggestion I'd like to make is completely remove the walls, pillars, and stairs in this room and start over bare-bones. I would then try to locate the middle of the room and then make a pillar in this middle of this room (maybe make it large enough to house those four switches). This would essentially give you the same effect I think your trying to achieve here, but it would allow the player a little more breathing room and it would also allow you to keep a form of cover from that first archvile encounter. From there you could tweak it as needed. Slightly more nitpicky; that step texture doesn't match the flat your using . I also kept getting confused by the markings next to the exit switch; unless your right next to it, all you see is the blue key markings. I would probably rearrange it in a vertical fashion which would allow you to display all three of the key colors at once (as in make three, 16px wide sectors and arrange them so that you would see blue, red, and yellow in a vertical fashion). Though if you were to rearrange the room in a way similar to how I suggested, you would probably have a lot more room to display the markings in any way you want. But really though, this room just drives me nuts as you can probably tell :p

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v63/Mechadon/Map%20Screenshots/etrn09.png
This is another area that's kind of annoying because of how cramped it is, though I don't think it's nearly as noticeable because your really only visit this room 2 or 3 times at the most. I think the offender here is the metal trimming which jut out from the lower wall of that platform which is closest to the blue key. I think I would probably either move them back into that platform OR I would pull up some horizontal trimming in between each vertical metal trimming so that the player wouldn't keep getting caught on them. Either way would probably work.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v63/Mechadon/Map%20Screenshots/etrn07.png
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v63/Mechadon/Map%20Screenshots/etrn02.png

I think these two wall decors weren't made impassible. If not, I would make them impassible so the player doesn't get caught on them (sorry for not being certain...I can't remember if I kept getting caught on them or not. Though I took screenshots so I probably did).

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v63/Mechadon/Map%20Screenshots/etrn05.png
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v63/Mechadon/Map%20Screenshots/etrn06.png

Is there any chance you could widen up these two areas? In the first screenshot, I had a hard time trying to fall into that area for some reason. In the second screenshot with the lift, it took me a few tries before I could get my fat marine ass through that area :p

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v63/Mechadon/Map%20Screenshots/etrn01.png

I noticed that the demons here couldn't get past that area. Is this intended? I wasn't sure since demons would keep spawning behind ones that I killed, making them pretty much no threat at all.

One other thing that I thought was a little weird was how you got the red key. The two lifts that you use in order to finally obtain the red key seem like they could be change up a little bit...well, at least the latter lift which takes you to the red key platform anyways. I kept waiting and waiting for that lift to go up...it just seemed to take too long. I'm not sure if there's a reason behind that, but I figured I would mention it anyways.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Complex 4K
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

This is a really spiffy looking map with lots of texture variation and all kinds of fancy detail to look at. I was impressed at some of the intricate detailing that went into this map; there's lots of texturing fancyness that I never would have thought of. Core gameplay feels pretty balanced on the easiest difficulty; I can only assume it's the same for harder difficulties at this point. Most of what bothered me on this map were obstructions due to cramped areas or outward detailing. Overall I enjoyed this map, but I think it could use a bit of tweaking to make it easier to get around it. Onward with the screenies!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v63/Mechadon/Map%20Screenshots/etrn00-1.png
The first thing I ran across was this trimming. This is probably nitpicky, but I would likely make it impassible. If the player is still able to activate that switch, I would definitely make it impassible so the player won't get caught on that trim's edge.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v63/Mechadon/Map%20Screenshots/etrn05-1.png
The second thing I ran into (also probably nitpicky) was the opening in this grate midtexture which the player has to traverse through on numerous occasions. I think the left and right edges of the grates 'opening' are set to impassible. I would make it passable to make it a little less annoying to go through; it's doubtful that you'll be loosing the illusion of the player walking through an opening in the grate. The left/right edges of that opening around long enough to look like your walking completely through a midtexture (does that make sense?).

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v63/Mechadon/Map%20Screenshots/etrn10-1.png
When I first started the map, I wasn't 100% sure where the exact 1024 boundaries were in this area. But once I gained access to this switch, it looked like you've got a bit of room to play around with. I try to utilize nearly all of the 1024 space for the player to move around in; in this case, you've got some metal crates which are taking up that valuable resource. This could definitely be applied to help improve the flow of this map; especially in the room/hallway that's behind those crates. I think I would get rid of those crates completely, move your door over in their place, and then possible move things out a bit to widen the hallway in that building (when I say 'move out', I mean this via the perspective of the player in that screenshot). This in turn leads me to this...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v63/Mechadon/Map%20Screenshots/etrn02-1.png
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v63/Mechadon/Map%20Screenshots/etrn04-1.png
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v63/Mechadon/Map%20Screenshots/etrn01-1.png
As you can see in the first screenshot, that is a narrow hallway. It is by no means overly cramped, but with the suggestion I gave above, it could certainly be widen (and that's always a good thing in a 1024 map if you ask me). Also, the room that is right next to where I took that first screenshot (2nd screenshot) could be improved as well. I'm mostly talking about the area I'm trying to point at with the chaingun. It's really cramped and I pretty much avoided walking through it at all because of that. If you were able to widen things up, you could possibly make that room breath a bit more as well. In the 3rd screenshot, you'll notice I'm pointing in the direction of that comp texture decoration which is in between a doorway and a window. As you can see, this gives some room to the outside while it's constricting the width of the hallways opposite of that wall. I would pull this outside wall out so that it widens your wallways; since this is an outside area and you've got a good bit of room, doing this shouldn't hurt the overall size of the outside area.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v63/Mechadon/Map%20Screenshots/etrn03-1.png
This is another example where it's better to build decor inwardly as opposed to outwardly. I kept getting caught in this decor. Looking back now I can't recall how wide the wall behind this decor is. However, if your able to push it back into the wall some, it would definitely help.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v63/Mechadon/Map%20Screenshots/etrn08-1.png
This tri-switch area is pretty cool, but I did have problems getting caught on edges in here. If possible, make an impassible line around or on the platform flat to keep from getting stuck on decorations. That is, as long as the player is still close enough to activate the switches.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v63/Mechadon/Map%20Screenshots/etrn09-1.png
I was confused at this floor decor; it felt more obstructive than anything else. I would most likely do something else there that would require such radical height variations. A simple floor decor that's set 2-4px down in place of the large square decor would be nice. You could probably keep the lone metal crate though :)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v63/Mechadon/Map%20Screenshots/etrn07-1.png
And then we come to this scary scary room. Boy do I hate this room; it caused me to have to repeat the map twice over :/. While I think the decor looks pretty cool, it's absolutely obstructive to the player's movements. First, the caution pillars: these do provide some cover for the small invasion that pours through after you hit the switch next to the yellow key. But at the same time this room is so small that it wrecks any chance of getting around or away from monsters that teleport in. I would cut these pillars in half and have them come out from the ceiling so the player doesn't have to worry about getting trapped. Or you could alter the way the monsters are teleported in so your not mangled to death in a demon mosh pit :p. I would probably prefer the former over the latter though. Second thing that makes this room very difficult to get around in; the laser decoration (I assume they are lasers anyways). Since the red 'laser' is impassible, it's just another obstacle in another cramped room. Also, the comp/light decor that jutting out of the floor makes moving around over them distracting and disorienting. I would most likely remove them completely. As for the lasers, I think you can achieve the same decoration while making it possible to walk through them. After you remove the comp/light decors, you could replace the solid red laser sectors with midtextures of the same texture (maybe even give them some transparency and some lighting effects to further reinforce that they are indeed lasers). I'm not sure, but you may have to move some structures around so the player can move underneath the laser body decor...it's hard to tell from the screenshot. But overall, I think if you followed my suggestions, it would make that room 10 times more bearable.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v63/Mechadon/Map%20Screenshots/etrn06-1.png
Just a small sky texture error, it seems. I tried to position myself where you could easily see it. If you can't, just look in that general direction and you should be able to see it.

The other two maps will be below in another post

[Jodwin]

Thanks for the in-depth comments! Those were really useful, and I'll take a look at them right away. Just some comments on your comments first. :)

I noticed that the demons here couldn't get past that area. Is this intended? I wasn't sure since demons would keep spawning behind ones that I killed, making them pretty much no threat at all.

That's intended, although not quite optimal I admit. The point with the demons is to slow the player down a bit so that you can't just race to the lift after using the yellow key switch and completely skip the revenants and cacos. If the demons could move out they'd be target to some quite heavy infighting which I also wanted to avoid.

One other thing that I thought was a little weird was how you got the red key. The two lifts that you use in order to finally obtain the red key seem like they could be change up a little bit...well, at least the latter lift which takes you to the red key platform anyways. I kept waiting and waiting for that lift to go up...it just seemed to take too long. I'm not sure if there's a reason behind that, but I figured I would mention it anyways.

The red key situation is pretty similar to the demons above. I initially had the latter switch work normally, but then it would be easily possible to run to the red key while taking hardly any damage from the knights and mancs. With the slower lift you're forced to be a sitting duck so skipping that fight isn't such a good idea. If someone has a better solution, I'm all ears.

I'll take a look at redesigning the main switch room; I knew that that particular room is pretty cramped but had no ideas how to remedy it while keeping cover for the arch-viles. For some reason simply scrapping the whole room and starting all over didn't even come to mind, so I'll try that. :)

[Mechadon]

Jodwin said:

The red key situation is pretty similar to the demons above. I initially had the latter switch work normally, but then it would be easily possible to run to the red key while taking hardly any damage from the knights and mancs. With the slower lift you're forced to be a sitting duck so skipping that fight isn't such a good idea. If someone has a better solution, I'm all ears.

Ah, I see. Well I actually didn't get to flip that switch until I had cleared the entire room of demons. So I ended up sitting on that lift, twiddling my thumbs, wondering why in the hell it was taking forever to move :). I think it really just depends on the situation the player is in; if your having to deal with a bunch of demons while at the same time waiting on the lift to move then it makes sense. But if your in the situation I was in, it comes off as kind of annoying (which I know is not intended). The only thing I can think of is to possibly alter the wait time just a notch faster...that is, if it doesn't disrupt the original intention you had.

[EDIT]

Gah, I'll just have to finish up those last two maps tomorrow. It's 5 am and I'm late for an appointment with the sand man.

[Jodwin]

Well unfortunately Boom's lift delays are limited to 1, 3, 5 and 10 seconds (it's currently 10). If I could use it, 7 seconds might be the "best." I'll think about 5 seconds, it's still a tad too fast to punish people who want to skip it but at least far from as confusing as it's now...choices choices. :)

EDIT:
Skyscrape IV V3 Secret exit/Less confusing/Less cramped:
http://www.akinomori.com/stuff/jodwin_SkyscrapeIV_v3secretexit.zip
Implemented the fixes for the small support pillars, fixed the computers in the round room, fixed the pillars in the starting shotgun room, redesigned the control room, decided to make the red key lift wait for five seconds and plenty of other fixes I can't remember right now.
http://www.akinomori.com/stuff/images/ssiv1.jpg
http://www.akinomori.com/stuff/images/ssiv2.jpg
It doesn't show well in the first screenshot, but the key-textures next to the exit switch are now angled like \_/ instead of |_|, so the yellow and red textures are more visible. Also not visible is that now you can see from the control room to the room next to it (the "exit" room from the crate area-slash-the baron/hell knight room on blue key route).

EDIT II:
Heh, that was a lot less painful than I thought. :P I guess my take on map30 is already "finished" (as in v1 is done). I always could try to squeeze in as much pointless detail as I could bother to, but then again if you've got enough time to look around at the walls during the massacre, then turn off that god mode! ;) Now be warned, this is quite unorthodox as a map30-map...I might do some tweaks, but I won't be completely re-designing this so if the idea isn't deemed good enough then don't bother keeping that map slot reserved. :) With nothing else to add...Map30, Thanatophobia:
http://www.akinomori.com/stuff/jodwin_Thanatophobia_v1.zip
(Oh and if UV feels too hard, try HMP, it's got only one spawner.)

[Mechadon]

Ok, here's more feedback!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
End of the Line
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I find it unfortunate that I'm just now getting to leave feedback for this map. This was an original submission to the first Claustrophobia 1024 project, so it's been around for a while. This is another KingKill33 map with all kinds of detail smashed into all sorts of nooks and crannies, so your eyes definitely won't be bored while playing. The first time I played it, issues aside, I thought it had a lot of potential and I really enjoyed the overall atmosphere KK33 portrayed. However, I think this map suffers from what I'm starting to call 'Thismapwouldbewickedawesomeifitweren'ta1024map-itis' :p. I think this map crosses the border from difficult-yet-fun to difficult-and-annoying, mostly because of how cramped it is. For the majority of the map your confined to tight rooms and hallways. There's two areas that sort of open up but the largest of these areas is at the very end of the map. I was saddened a bit to find that the largest, outside area was saved until the very end of the map. There's a small, somewhat anticlimactic fight in this outside area, but to me it didn't seem to warrant the amount of space it used. I thought that some of this area could have better been used to make the rest of the map (rooms, hallways) a bit easier to move around and fight in. I do think that, with improvements, the gameplay and annoyance factor of this map could be lessened, if not eliminated. There are a few spots where the rooms are too cramped for the number and type of monsters that your faced with. And then there are a few spots that are just really hard to move around or navigate in because of crampedness or obstructive decor/structures. I think this map would be more suited to an easier difficulty slot (somewhere at or under MAP10) given it's layout and flow. There's also a few areas near the beginning of the map where I would run out of ammo and have to fist my way through parts of the map. All that would need to be fixed/changed is monster/item placements and any overly cramped areas :). Oh, I should mention that I accidentally played this map on a harder difficulty when I meant to play it on the easiest. So I had to godmode through some of it :P

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v63/Mechadon/Map%20Screenshots/etrn00-2.png
It's probably hard to see, but there's a missing texture here. On the opposite side of the wall I'm pointing at, there's a computer decoration sticking out from the ceiling. The backside of this structure is missing a texture. If you look closely you can see the COMP edge of the structure I'm trying to describe. Also, I didn't check, but the step texture you used there might tutti-frutti in some other ports. I should have checked myself but uh...I didn't :p

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v63/Mechadon/Map%20Screenshots/etrn01-2.png
The two trimming decorations that run alongside both walls here make moving through that hallways pretty annoying. Compound that with where it meets the vertical trimming sticking out of the walls and it's a great place to become frustrated when moving around. I think you could get away with making the outer edges of this horizontal trimming impassible, but I would almost just get rid of it completely. Either way, I found it to be a bit of a hindrance while playing.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v63/Mechadon/Map%20Screenshots/etrn02-2.png
There's a midtexture clipping into the floor here. It might be kind of hard to see because THE FREAKIN' DEMON DIED RIGHT WHERE I WANTED TO TAKE THE SCREENSHOT but hopefully you recognize the general area. If your not aware, an easy way to fix this problem is to make one side of the midtexture darker/lighter than the other. Even if you change the light level by 1 unit, it will cut off the midtexture and make it look proper. You can also achieve the same effect by change the floor/ceiling height on one side of the midtexure, but I prefer the light method myself.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v63/Mechadon/Map%20Screenshots/etrn03-2.png
Heh, this lone metal crate isn't in the best of places. He kept throwing of my movements and my aim because I would run into/over him constantly. I'd probably just get rid of it.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v63/Mechadon/Map%20Screenshots/etrn04-2.png
I guess in just about every map I play, there's always one room or area that drives me nuts. This is one of those kinds of rooms. As you can see, I had to enable god mode just to get past it. The problem here is that your stuffed into a super cramped room with all kinds of structures to obstruct your movements (with no way out, I might add) and then your forced to face a miniature horde of demons (which compose of barons, revanents, and those types of things). I dare say that this room is almost impossible to get through without a weapon stronger than the SSG or maxed out health/armor. If your playing through the map from pistol start, I can see this room making a lot of people stop playing the map altogether :(. I think the first problem is that you've got too much going on, structure wise, here. For instance, the metal crates and the leftover tracks from where the floor lowered make this area a pain to move around in. I would most likely get rid of both. Secondly, the monster that are spawned in here are too numerous and too strong given that you can't get out. If you were to take my advice and transform this map into something more suited to an early map slot, changing up the monsters that spawn in here accordingly would help quite a bit. Also, this room borders the final outside area; if it were me, I would take advantage of some of that room by making this area a bit larger; more play room is always good :]. Overall, though, this is probably the worst part of the entire map in my opinion.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v63/Mechadon/Map%20Screenshots/etrn05-2.png
This little room is kind of annoying to me for some reason. I think it's the pillar and wall decor which jut out in an area that would be more beneficial for the player to move around in then for decor. If it were me, I'd remove both the wall and pillar decors and focus that decoration on the ceiling. Also, I can't remember...but I believe that computer panel is an outward decoration, which is yet another place to get caught on. Since you've already got something pushed back into that wall, I would probably just remove it. For a room this cramped, ceiling/floor decor that's completely out of the player's way is a good idea.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v63/Mechadon/Map%20Screenshots/etrn06-2.png
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v63/Mechadon/Map%20Screenshots/etrn07-2.png
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v63/Mechadon/Map%20Screenshots/etrn08-2.png
These are just some areas which can (and did, for me) impede the player's movements. Try to smooth them out/make them flush with the walls around them, if you can.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The Process
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

This is yet another KingKill33/Kyka collaboration map (I swear these guys have been on a roll lately!). I love the look and feel of this map. As usual, it has an over-abundance of detailing and fancy texturing to keep your eyes happy while you carve a murderous path through hellspawn. I also found this map to be pretty difficult, especially the part where your down on the conveyor tracks and a large number of demons spawn in and around you. I was able to beat it after a couple of tries though, and I think the overall difficulty is balanced out pretty well throughout the map. I only have a couple of things to point out :]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v63/Mechadon/Map%20Screenshots/etrn09-2.png
GAH skytexturing bug.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v63/Mechadon/Map%20Screenshots/etrn11.png
This particular area was really the only semi-annoying part to get around in that I ran into. I like the bombed out look of the building, but getting to that switch is a bit of a pain because of that blown-up pillar decoration. I would make it so that your able to go over/through that pillar, which would open up that area a bit :]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

@Jodwin: Ah, that's much better! I'm so glad you decided to redo that exit/switch room :D. I also just played your MAP30 submission as well. I think you did a very good job with it! The gameplay felt solid to me and I thought it looked pretty slick, detail/architecture wise (I'm glad you decided to go with a more traditional Doom texture pallete...there's been a awful lot of quake-esqe looking maps submitted, heh). I'd like to make two suggestions, if I may:

- The lighting felt...well, really flat. I think you've got some room to improve and expand on some pretty lighting. An example might be to make a circle, gradient lighting decoration in the middle of the lift where you start, illuminating from the center. Since the map is already pretty cool looking architecture wise, I would definitely do some fancy lighting if possible. I know this is a purely aesthetic suggestion, but I would definitely consider it :D. Also on a slightly less aesthetic note, I would brighten up the switches quite a bit as well to make them stand out more. I didn't even notice half of them until I was almost out of ammo.

- Going back to the switches, is there any chance you could make the switch that lowers the platform stand out from the rest of the switches? I would hit it once and then go around to hit the rest of them, thinking it was part of that chain of switches that needed to be hit. I never noticed the platform going down when I hit it, so it was a little confusing. Changing up the texture or something else to make it stand out would be nice.

Overall, I liked it alot! I agree that you don't really have the time to go around and look at detail in a MAP30 replacment, but in the case of lighting I think it can detract from a map (and gameplay to an extent) if it's really flat. So please consider that suggestion :D

[esselfortium]

@Mechadon: Tutti-frutti is actually fixed in Boom and all ports derived from it. It was never completely fixed in ZDoom (for instance, 72-tall textures will tile incorrectly and have weird black artifacts), but power-of-two heights like that step texture should tile without problems.

[Mechadon]

Gotcha, thanks for clarifying that for me essel :D. I couldn't remember and I couldn't be bothered to test in PRBoom+ because I prefer to play in EE (though I really should playtest everything in PRBoom+ first, I suppose).

Oh...do you have a name for your map yet esselpants? :P


I've slightly updated the OP. I'm sure it's still very out of date though. And small update on my last map; I'm about 75% done with all of the layout/architecture. From there I'll do lighting and then finally add items and monsters and gameplay-essential stuff. I don't know when I'm going to post screenshots though.

[Jodwin]

Thanatophobia, now with lightning and pillar-switch with different texture!
http://www.akinomori.com/stuff/jodwin_Thanatophobia_v2.zip

[[name_withheld]]

Updates, w00t!

Anyway, here's End of the Line and Complex4K, with changes to each.

End of the Line (Version 9)
---------------
Link: http://www.filesavr.com/kk33-endoftheline-version9
---------------
Changes:
+ Added texture to the switch.
+ Removed trimming running along the hallway.
+ Changed first spectre into an imp.
+ Removed grating in basement to avoid overflow since changing the lighting actually gade the basement somekind of trippy strobe effect.
+ Removed our little silver friend. :p
+ Removed all of the revenants except the one on hard. Makes it a lot more manageable since you don't have a couple of big skeletons punching your teeth in.
+ Removed some obstructing pillars in said area.
+ Removed red tech pillar in end-switch room.
+ Little things here and there.
---------------

---------------
Complex4K (Version 2)
---------------
Link: http://www.filesavr.com/kykakk33-complex4k-version2
---------------
+ Assorted trimming fixed.
+ Grating was already passable. :p
+ Opened up that hallway so that it's not so cramped.
+ Did a little reworking on adjacent room.
+ Lowered the floor decor in the room after the drilling area. Still, above the surrounding floor, but more manageable.
+ Caution pillars raised. Kept the lasers though. If they were passable you'd be able to fall into the lava, which wouldn't be too good. Go ahead and try it as is, and if it still doesn't work I'll give in and fix it. :p
+ Sky errors fixed.
---------------

I'll send Kyka a PM and have him work on the few things in the Process since he sent you the last version.

[Mechadon]

Wow, excellent KK33! Your fast :O

I've got a few more feedback things, but I'll send them to you via PM this time.

[EDIT]

OP updated again. I notice that we have 26 or so maps accepted. I didn't think we had that many to be honest :P

[Jodwin]

This should be the last version of Skyscrape IV:
http://www.akinomori.com/stuff/jodwin_SkyscrapeIV_v4secretexit.zip
I noticed that there was a big problem in the new control room: You could easily go flip the switches while the sector blocking them was lowering, and obviously those sectors wouldn't close as they were currently in motion. I made the lowering faster so that should be taken care of now.

[Kyka]

Thanks heaps for the feedback Mech, and thanks KingKill for taking care of all those details. Great work, and as Mech said, very very fast too. :)

cheers.

I will get those few things on "The Process" fixed up very soon.

[brinks]

http://www.filesavr.com/brinks-nocabyss-5

New (and hopefully final) version of my map. Adds a few details and a shootable switch to foil those pesky pacifist players :p

[Jodwin]

I got suddenly struck by a Bolt of Inspiration, and decided to start on yet an other map. D: In fact the bolt was so high level that I've already got the basic layout done, followed by detail+lightning and then gameplay. It'll be an easy map, called Tekno1000.
http://www.akinomori.com/stuff/images/tekno1000_1.jpg


Btw, I like making 1024 maps. Usually I can map only when I've got some new idea to try out and when that inspiration dries down the maps usually die too. 1024 maps on the other hand are so small that there's no danger of the inspiration dying before you get them finished. :)