Switcheroom 2 - Alpha 2

[zinkai]

I'll get on it as soon as I get some free time today. As for the Avs I had 6 in the map at one point. ( where te revrents are) I decided to change it at the last min. Now I am in 2 minds to put them back and make it more difficult for uv. As for sector tags other than 01 I did not know that about vinilla, learn something every day! As for easy in fighting should I a) keep the way it is? In fighting is cool. B) change some monsters around so there is less chance of infighting?

[joe-ilya]

BlueFeena said:
[BIAlso, I managed to get stuck behind the same set of crates twice. The blue door lacks any form DOORBLU texturing, which looks really unprofessional.
a plasma gun -- even for a secret -- is pretty excessive this early on. I'd argue there should be more health for map this early in the game, [/B]

That switch behind the crate wasn't tested, and I thought that the blue door is marked with the blue teleporter lights will be quite obvious, found out I'm the one making the map.
The plasma gun should be replaced with a chaingun in UV and HMP.
TIP: If it's too hard for you then play on a lower difficulty, doesn't it makes so much sense?

[scifista42]

zinkai said:

I'll get on it as soon as I get some free time today. As for the Avs I had 6 in the map at one point. ( where te revrents are) I decided to change it at the last min. Now I am in 2 minds to put them back and make it more difficult for uv. As for sector tags other than 01 I did not know that about vinilla, learn something every day! As for easy in fighting should I a) keep the way it is? In fighting is cool. B) change some monsters around so there is less chance of infighting?

In my opinion, you can let all the monsters placement as it is now. The map was interesting to play. Four archviles released at once are already more than enough I'd say, let it as it is. Also I didn't notice much infighting, as I didn't rush and tried to kill each wave before advancing further. No changes are really needed. Just fix the broken parts.

I like the detailing full of gore, by the way. ;)

[zinkai]

well everything has been fixed. just had a quick run round i might end up putting more detail in the main area the ceiling is BLAND to say the least. as for the av trigger it will be getting changed eventually. dont have time this morning, gonna go see the governor from walking dead :D

well this version i would like info on health ammo etc, to much to little, just right? i might remove the bfg, such a lame weapon.

dl link

http://www.mediafire.com/download/lc89fn88ry913b9/SW26.wad

[scifista42]

I'd say there's way too much ammo. Cut down on it, specially inside the monster closets. You give away the berserk pack early on, and the level will be played from continuous play by most players anyways.

On the other hand, the BFG came in handy, let it there. :)

Please also flag the sides of your doors (with the texture DOORTRAK) as "lower unpegged". That's kind of a standard in Doom maps.

[joe-ilya]

I took places from MAP15 and then mixed them with patches.
If it doesn't looks like MAP15 to you, it's probably because of the textures and the progress but belive me, I didn't make up anything exept for that ground pile near the red bars.

http://imgur.com/a/3LWu5 the last two screenshots don't count.

[scifista42]

Sorry, but even if the particular areas of MAP15 were more recognizable, you still didn't comply to the rules in the means of how the rooms are placed and connected. It doesn't make sense and doesn't remind of MAP15 natural progression at all, so I think you've exceeded the leeway too much. You've also omited some areas. The map as it is now can't make it to the Switcheroom 2 eventual final release. Please redo it with respect to what I've pointed out to you. Maybe you won't need to redo it from scratch, maybe just improving the room's placement and interconnection would be enough.

[joe-ilya]

Here's a better and smaller version for the map with the victory song from skulltag

https://www.mediafire.com/?105181ppz9syfz5

[NuMetalManiak]

Those screenshots have a lot of misaligned textures in them.

[tourniquet]

zinkai said:

well everything has been fixed. just had a quick run round i might end up putting more detail in the main area the ceiling is BLAND to say the least. as for the av trigger it will be getting changed eventually. dont have time this morning, gonna go see the governor from walking dead :D

well this version i would like info on health ammo etc, to much to little, just right? i might remove the bfg, such a lame weapon.

dl link

http://www.mediafire.com/download/lc89fn88ry913b9/SW26.wad

So far i like this map. Enemy and Weapon placement seems ok.
Here is my run recorded with prboom complevel 2.
Check out these HOMs in the chambers with the Rev's thats all i noticed so far.

EDIT: I would add the BFG only at lower skills since in my opinion the map is still fairly beatable without it...

[BlueFeena]

joe-ilya said:

Condescending bullshit remark

TIP: If I didn't say the map was too hard then it wouldn't be wise for you to infer that, slick.

[zinkai]

just watched your demo tourniquet, nice. noticed a few things which i would remove from my map an change. never had prboom before, so it was cool watching someone stomp around. think ill leave the bfg, just replace the 2 large cell packs with 2 small ones, maybe a few other tweeks. thanks

[zinkai]

ok then here is hopefully my final version of map 26-32.

http://www.mediafire.com/download/65eoike77nb4ema/SW26final.wad

changes: added stuff, removed stuff, lower pegged doors, replaced ammo with rockets, added skylights, now includes a dancing bear, fixed hom in blood rooms.

[scifista42]

I strongly disagree with the vastly increased count of high-tier monsters. The map was quite heavy on them even before. But now, with two cyberdemons and MANY additional barons and revenants (!!!), the map only turns into an excessive slaughter, which can still be avoided by running, it's just a little bit less easy. Please cut down on the monsters, I'd say, remove all of those you've added since the last version, specially the masses of revenants on ground. Again - I think you were already on the upper border previously.

If anyone wants to express his opinion on this, feel free to. My opinion is that I don't want slaughtermaps like this.

[zinkai]

It has 3 cyber demons. It was just a bit to easy last time round I suppose I could cut a few out. Reson i swaped previous monster for Barron's was to stop a lot of the in fighting. I will have another crack at making it less slaughterish.

[tourniquet]

@zinkai im sorry but i must agree with scifista, the enemy count in your older version was sufficient enough, so i recommend to change that back to the previous state...just keep the additional detail..

the HOMs i mentioned before still appear in these "blood rooms" dunno what port you use for playtesting but they were only visible in choco and vanilla doom....

[zinkai]

I may keep the additonal reverent and just switch them to deaf, the reason I added more was after watching FDA it was to easy to pummel them with rockets without them firing a shot as for all the cacos I'll drop em to 2 in a room rather than 4

[scifista42]

Maybe just move the revenants forward (closer to the chamber's entrance) - then you'd need just one or two revenants per one chamber. Three at the very maximum. Not frigging 8!

[zinkai]

Can u even place monsters on stairs? Something I have not tried. Starting to sound like a noob now lol. Also only 4 in each room are flagged as deaf

[tourniquet]

another update on map27....

-the red key room was reworked, the Rev's are completely removed and now it's possible to teleport yourself out at any time...
- secrets are now more obvious and the 30s secret door is removed
- archvile count is decimated, especially the one that caused the ghost monsters
- the eastern blue key room and the north room with the double stairway have been reworked due to some possible drawsegs (thx again to megalyth), the stairway should now be quite comfortable to manoeuver
- added some DM only teleporters which can also only be activated in DM
- fixed all the texture misalignments i found so far
- the Cybie is now flagged UV only, give me some feedback about keeping or completely removimg him, i'll gonna bow to the majority

[Fellowzdoomer]

I'm gonna post the beginning of my map. This is not complete so do not link it

http://www.mediafire.com/?1paqz01pwtwjx5c

I'd also like to rename my map "The Waste Base". This is a more fitting title . I know the bugs in it, but suggestions are welcome.

Bugs I know of:

-needs more HP in HMP and UV
-needs more Shells in HMP and UV
-Bridge has texture misalignment, as well as the blue tech room.
-Middle texture before the tech room needs to be gone.

These are what I noticed a bit.

[scifista42]

@tourniquet: Very well! I like the change to the staircase, as well as better marked secrets. Let me point out a couple very minor problems with this version I noticed during my playthrough. Where the northern staircase is, there's a deaf spectre in lava pit, who don't always activate unless someone jumps to him or walk very close to the ledge. Players aiming for 100%/100%/100% statistics may have problems locating him, that's all. Another minor thing, the blinking effect around the candelabra here looks unnatural to me - since when candles can flicker like this? Then, a little more serious problem can happen here. Chaingunner can actually hit the mancubi below him when trying to snipe down the player. Hitscan attacks have this autoaiming ability. Then the mancubi go chase him, and then, if infinitely tall objects are turned on, player's situation is much harder when he wants to jump to them. I hope there would be a way to avoid mancubi getting hit (maybe remove hitscanners from the alcove up there). Last thing I've observed is a texture misalignment on the scrolling texture above that chaingunner in my last screenshot. The misalignment appears on two places.

Keep the cyberdemon on UV, he doesn't have to be there on lower skills, that's my opinion. Ammo and health balance seems good to me. (Okay, okay, I used "resurrect" cheat during my testing, but I still think that if I weren't doing terrible mistakes, the health balance would be OK.)

[scifista42]

@Fellowzdoomer: First, Zandronum crashed on your map right away, allegedly a linedef 178 doesn't have a front sector. PrBoom-plus didn't mind it, so I tested the map in PrBoom-plus. Unfortunately I have to tell you that what I've seen there doesn't remind of the Citadel at all. The only familiar part was "Oh well. There's a bridge. Sort of." The execution is bad. All the rectangular rooms are a screaming sign of unprofesionality and author's incompetence. I am sorry.

Please trash this thing, and start over if you believe you can do better, now when I'm telling you what's wrong. Look at the other people's accepted maps. They're good, because they show the original maps in a different, interesting view. There's not a single bit in your map worth. Instead, it's gonna throw attention to your unskilledness. Nobody who'll play this would consider it a successful switcheroom attempt. I apologize, but I feel a need to be honest to you. Quality like this is not gonna be accepted, standards of good design are far higher. So higher that I'm afraid its above your possibilities, specially with the editor I know you're using. The piece of map you have shown is a prove.

Trust me, I'm not saying this with a satisfaction.

Please start again, completely from scratch, and prove that you can achieve the standards of as good design as the other mappers here. If you can't, your maps don't have a place in a community project that aims for a well-made product. On this note, I'd also warn you from participating on projects like TRCP and such, because nobody will tolerate what you claim to be your quality work here.

[Fellowzdoomer]

OK. Ill scrap it and add it to my pile of unused maps.

...or if you wish, I can just give up my slot now and throw in the towel.

...and I'm not OFFICIALLY joining Trcp. They took my idea anyway. Gotta say these ideas out loud I guess.

EDIT: My limitations have almost NOTHING to do with crap maps I make. I'm not trying to sound upset here or saying I'm doing it intentionally (if I did, I'd turn into a Terry mapper.)

There's probably more, but the edit button don't let ya look at earlier posts.

[Brusle]

Here are some screenies from map23.








Still not finished the whole map though (about 50%).
If you find something in those screens that doesnt abide by the rules, tell me (before it's too late :O )...
It's still WIP so some things will change.

[scifista42]

It looks very good, Brusle, but beware, you apparently tend to add a lot of detail that derails from the original layout's recognizable-ness. My advice would be, if you're after nice detail, try to incorporate it in a way that amplifies resemblance to the original layout instead.

[Fernito]

Hey there guys.

Here's my version of MAP27 in MAP09 slot, already finished with fully implemented difficulty settings, deathmatch starts/items, and all that.

I tested it extensively with Chocolate Doom and it came out clean, but if you happen to find any bugs, please let me know.

NOTE: I'm not crazy about texture alignment; actually, I intentionally left some misalignments here and there in order to achieve the original Doom maps feel. This means that if you find some misalignments thinking that they are "bugs", please don't even bother to tell me, as I won't fix them! :P

[scifista42]

@Fernito: I could only check the start of your map for now (and I'll properly test it out later), but I'm afraid you've (again) fallen into the pit of making excessive homages. I think the pillars at the start are contributing to the map in a worse way rather than good, and then I've seen some other inappropriate IWAD tributes. That's really all what I can say for now, so just - beware of that. In my opinion, originality in your own design AND staying true to the layout you actually should be working with, those goals are the important.

[Fernito]

scifista42 said:

@Fernito: I could only check the start of your map for now (and I'll properly test it out later), but I'm afraid you've (again) fallen into the pit of making excessive homages. I think the pillars at the start are contributing to the map in a worse way rather than good, and then I've seen some other inappropriate IWAD tributes. That's really all what I can say for now, so just - beware of that. In my opinion, originality in your own design AND staying true to the layout you actually should be working with, those goals are the important.

I did make the first room similar to the starting area of MAP06, and then the yellow key room similar to the yellow key room in original MAP09, but, besides those two, I really can't count any other homages to the original maps, so I wouldn't really call that excessive.

I really liked how the starting area came out in terms of gameplay (I wouldn't have kept it like that otherwise), but if there are too many complaints about it being too "homage-y", I guess I wouldn't mind modifying it.

[cannonball]

First draft of camp blood, just uv settings and nothing else at the moment as I want to get this right before adding the rest of the stuff.
http://www.mediafire.com/download/vgxk234h7ugzhbv/cblood.wad

I expect this may have gone too far difficulty wise and getting started might not be for the faint of heart.