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pritch
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I love my Nexus 7. Could it replace my computer? Of course not.

No matter how good they get you need some form of peripheral to ultimately control the device. Until mind control comes alone I think we're stuck with the keyboard and mouse.

Old Post 01-20-13 18:47 #
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Maes
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Fluffles said:
Well 1.9ghz isn't severly underclocked, most laptops run at 1.5ghz-3ghz and considering this tablet does the exact same as a laptop that's pretty cool.


Not really, when you consider that the tablet's CPU is designed not to sustain this pace for long periods, due to heating and power conservation issues. You'd be surprised to learn that most of the time it just idles along at a fraction of that speed, otherwise the batteries would be drained in a couple of hours, tops.

The fact that you can pack that much peak power in a portable device, means that non-portable ones are at least an order of magnitude ahead in performance, like it has always been. Since non-mobile technology leads the way, and mobile is merely an adaptation of older non-mobile tech, you can plainly see why I'm less than impressed. E.g. dual core is now "the shit" in mobiles, yet it was already standard in desktops and laptops years ago. Whan next, 64-bit?

Sounds kinda like the argument made for the 24 mm APS photo film , introduced in the late 90s: the hard and cold fact was that, despite its conveniences, it was a smaller, 24mm film, and would always be behind 35 mm film in performance.

"BUT" said some smart aleck "by using more advanced chemicals with finer grain, we can match the resolution of 35 mm film even with a smaller area!". Sounds cool, right? Not really, if you consider that you could use those same, alleged "more advanced" chemicals on 35 mm film as well, thus creating a chicken and egg situation.

Similarly, mobile tech will never rival non-mobile one at generational and cost parity, because it's mobile that is designed as a downscaled/compromise version of leading-edge non-mobile, and not the other way around.

Last edited by Maes on 01-20-13 at 19:17

Old Post 01-20-13 19:11 #
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188DarkRevived
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Jodwin said:
I currently own three or four devices besides my computers that can watch Youtube videos (never tried if the 3DS supports those). Just try to imagine five or ten years forward...

Well, I confess that I actually like to cram as much as possible into 1 box to prevent clutter. So my laptop is loaded with emulators of 6 other consoles.
But I prefer to keep it stored and used indoors in one room at all times, unless I'm like moving residence or leaving my home for longer than 24 hours.

Old Post 01-21-13 02:08 #
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Maes
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Jodwin said:
I currently own three or four devices besides my computers that can watch Youtube videos (never tried if the 3DS supports those). Just try to imagine five or ten years forward...


My family's new TV can also do that, but quite honestly, it's a PITA: e.g. unless you also buy a (specialized!) wireless module, you have to drag an Ethernet cable to your TV. Reasonable in an office, not in a living room. Even when you do get it to work, the interface is slow and clumsy (nothing like what you get even on a non-Android/non-iOS smartphone), and as about future proofing against changes in youtube's formats or player....exactly zero.

The problem with such new technologies is that they are not like an older electronic device/standard e.g. a cassette player or an FM radio, which will -most of the time- encounter only standards-compliant cassettes and radio transmissions, and thus even a very old one would have no trouble being used today. On the contrary, if you put a modern device with "built in twatter and faceshit" in a closet and pull it out a decade later, what are the chances that it will work at all, even if those services still exist to some capacity?

Last edited by Maes on 01-21-13 at 08:55

Old Post 01-21-13 08:44 #
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Jodwin
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Maes said:
My family's new TV can also do that, but quite honestly, it's a PITA: e.g. unless you also buy a (specialized!) wireless module, you have to drag an Ethernet cable to your TV. Reasonable in an office, not in a living room. Even when you do get it to work, the interface is slow and clumsy (nothing like what you get even on a non-Android/non-iOS smartphone), and as about future proofing against changes in youtube's formats or player....exactly zero.

How many households really don't have wlan anymore? It's much more common than you Greeks might think. :P It doesn't even need to be "specialized" in any way. Besides, pretty much all of these devices supporting Youtube or other Internet-based services can receive software updates through the wire. So any changes to the services can be fixed immediately with...exactly zero problems.

Interface is fairly irrelevant as long as you can get to watch videos on a large screen even if you don't own a desktop. Also, at least the Wii U's interface for Youtube is pretty good. ;)

Old Post 01-21-13 09:43 #
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Maes
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Jodwin said:
How many households really don't have wlan anymore?


Who said that I didn't have a wlan router? It's the TV that requires you to add an optional -USB based- client module if you want to connect to an existing wifi network, which of course are nearly unobtainium or overpriced compared to a generic one.

Old Post 01-21-13 10:58 #
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Maes said:
On the contrary, if you put a modern device with "built in twatter and faceshit" in a closet and pull it out a decade later, what are the chances that it will work at all, even if those services still exist to some capacity?

Supposing social networking undergoes a radical transformation over the next 10 years, is it really much different than the fate of things like Laserdisc? Of course you can still USE a Laserdisc player, but good luck trying to find new films to watch on that medium. And while I do agree that audio cassettes provide a no-fuss (and cheap) way of recording something off the radio, but it's not like that's the only way of doing it if you've got a computer and an internet connection.

Old Post 01-21-13 11:10 #
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Fluffles
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...&v=ibLgZj4jCmQ#!

Old Post 02-05-13 21:24 #
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yukib1t said:
I've got an Asus Transformer with the keyboard dock, which I think is sort of what you're talking about when you mention modular systems. Honestly, I use it fairly often. But, it depends on what I'm working on, too. It's become a sort of supplemental tool for me, a quick mobile way to access my centralized data. I'll take it with me to meetings to take notes, on trips to keep myself entertained (with movies, mainly), or use it as a portable Netflix device. But I can't see it ever replacing my laptop, or especially my desktop, regardless of OS.
I am the same with mine. But the next incarnation will be a merge of the Asus netbook and the Transformer. Aptly named Asus Transformer Book. Runs with regular Win8 (IE, not Win8 RT). So you get the best of both worlds here. A Transformer with a UI based on touch that also support all your favorit programs.

Old Post 02-05-13 22:04 #
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geo
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They're good if you don't want to type on them. They're good for writing with and playing basic games. Listening to music is iffy since most speakers are in the back.

Old Post 02-08-13 00:09 #
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bcwood16
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pritch said:
I love my Nexus 7. Could it replace my computer? Of course not.

No matter how good they get you need some form of peripheral to ultimately control the device. Until mind control comes alone I think we're stuck with the keyboard and mouse.



Pretty much this!

I have a Kindle Fire and my partner a iPad 3. Its great for passing time playing little games and its super convenient to check emails and surf the internet.

However, when it comes to needing a desktop computer, my partner does not really need it as the iPad does what she needs, but we play Heroes of Might and Magic on it at times and she uses it for letters and publishing stuff. As for me yea I use my desktop all the time as I like playing graphics, in depth games using a mouse K/B etc.

Now I could replace my PC with an Xbox, but I like modding stuff, using 3D programs to model and enjoy messing about with 3D animations. Something an iPad or what ever cant do. Though I do use my PC alot less for internet surfing!

So as a computer 'power' user, I cant go without my beloved PC, but I also seek value in mobile devices.

I can certainly see why many people can just get away with an iPad, it does 'everything' they need. They are not interested in modding games, editing photos, playing graphics FPS and often not even needing to word process as everything is done by emails now aways!

Old Post 02-08-13 12:16 #
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Maes
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pritch said:
No matter how good they get you need some form of peripheral to ultimately control the device. Until mind control comes alone I think we're stuck with the keyboard and mouse.


And even then, if you are going to do actual work with it (and not just forward Smiley Central to your butt buddies), you'll probably need a bigger screen (probably more than one, too), an actual organized desk where you can put other paperwork or work utensils will always be required. No boss will be convinced that you can actually be productive while slouching on your mom's basement's couch.

Also, for some trades you really need specialized tools and accessories could a graphic artist really do without a high-resolution graphical tablet, or a musician without an actual keyboard? Hell, I can't imagine a full-time coder working without (at least) a double monitor setup, and a mindful of keyboard shortcuts!

Old Post 02-10-13 22:34 #
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Aliotroph?
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Graphic design, CAD, engineering, hard sciences, game development, sound engineering, music production, video editing / production, and IT itself are going to be using big desktop computers for a very long time. In some cases the devices on the desk might shrink, but like Maes says, the peripherals or the screen space are everything.

Interestingly, some of the very logical uses for tablets shown in Star Trek aren't very common yet. They throw those things around like they were boxes of Kleenex on Star Trek and yet we're still stuck in a world of paper, manual duplicating, and people copying to a different device when they reach a desk.

Old Post 02-11-13 06:28 #
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bcwood16
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Aliotroph? said:
Graphic design, CAD, engineering, hard sciences, game development, sound engineering, music production, video editing / production, and IT itself are going to be using big desktop computers for a very long time. In some cases the devices on the desk might shrink, but like Maes says, the peripherals or the screen space are everything.


Yup, a desktop PC with its large screen and pure power will be needed for many things yet.

I always remember when a group of kids told me a while back that gaming on my desktop was old school and PC's are not needed any longer. Stating their Xbox is the future and nobody does work processing any longer etc. I had to explain to them that if it was not for our 'old school' computers they would have no games to play on their xbox because the development of assets such as 3D models, textures, animation etc are all done on software that a xbox could not handle and does not the have a proper OS/UI etc to do any of the stuff needed. Not to mention when a game is first put together I doubt the console could run it until it was optimised for that particular environment and assets cut/reduced etc.

I was wasting my time though as apparently im wrong, a Xbox can run 'anything' and do 'anything' *sigh*

I know this is about tablets, but I guess the same thing applies, I cant see somebody making all the graphics for a tablet game on a tablet etc

Old Post 02-11-13 09:50 #
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Maes
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bcwood16 said:
I always remember when a group of kids told me a while back that gaming on my desktop was old school and PC's are not needed any longer.


Just they wait until they land their first minimum-wagin', data-entry job. Then they'll realize that all the bullshit they see in TV shows like iCarly where 13-yo kids run web shows from their favourite cafes while looking smug as just that: TV show bullshit.

Old Post 02-11-13 10:05 #
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Fluffles
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Aliotroph? said:
Graphic design, CAD, engineering, hard sciences, game development, sound engineering, music production, video editing / production, and IT itself are going to be using big desktop computers for a very long time. In some cases the devices on the desk might shrink, but like Maes says, the peripherals or the screen space are everything.



Yeah most tablets nowadays are shitty mobile OS tablets which the worst specs possible but since seeing tablets like this just makes me think. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZw_QL52QpQ. Shows that such a small form factor can literally be a whole desktop replacement, just plug in your own peripherals into it, monitors etc. Then you can do 80% of what you stated up there. The only limitations really is the graphics card isn't incredible mostly because of the form factor. Unless your pc is like 4ghz i7, 32gb ddr3 RAM, 4gb GDDR5 nvidia GTX and requires that for like CAD/editing then obviously it couldn't replace it but for most peoples needs it could easily be a replacement.

I hope companies start making cheaper alternatives to this though, then it could be done.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...1&v=DrvfntP_0Mw


Maes said:


Just they wait until they land their first minimum-wagin', data-entry job. Then they'll realize that all the bullshit they see in TV shows like iCarly where 13-yo kids run web shows from their favourite cafes while looking smug as just that: TV show bullshit.



Also just so you know in this whole thread I'm talking about PC gaming, not shitty mobile gaming which is terrible

Old Post 03-11-13 12:26 #
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Maes
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Fluffles said:
just plug in your own peripherals into it, monitors etc. Then you can do 80% of what you stated up there.


...and then you will have come full circle, and be using your tablet as a low-end, overpriced and non-upgradeable desktop computer.

Again, I see no practical uses for such a "docking" scenario: if you need to have the same data available at home and at work, you simply need some form of data sync between your job's workstations and your portable devices or your home workstation (which might also be supplied by the company, if you were that important, no? E.g. company laptop) and at work.

For data sync, "The Cloud" already takes care very well, without you needing to carry around the actual computing hardware and internal storage, let alone bringing it to work (unless the company was so poor-ass that only supplies passive docks, not full-fledged workstations).


Fluffles said:
Also just so you know in this whole thread I'm talking about PC gaming, not shitty mobile gaming which is terrible


Uhm...no, you're not.


Fluffles said:
http://www.razerzone.com/store/razer-edge

http://www.g4tv.com/thefeed/blog/po...l-game-changer/

What do you guys think about the future of tablets? I'm thinking it's going to be the norm in about 10 years, replacing most types of computers.

Old Post 03-11-13 14:02 #
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Fluffles
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Of course I am, I'm talking about windows 8 OS on a tablet, not some mobile OS. You can play PC games, use PC software, on new tablets. Really these tablets are just a PC with a built in screen, you can connect what you like to em.

These tablets also have proper SSDs in them so appropriate file systems for multiple OS compatibility (linux etc).

Just to try clear things up I'm not talking about some rubbish google nexus tablet, amazon kindle, ipad etc. They are complete bollocks in my eyes. I'm talking about tablets which run PC operating systems (especially windows 7/8).

Old Post 03-11-13 15:36 #
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Maes
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Even then, your points have been addressed: even with a "good" OS and a broadly compatible platform, you'd still be limited by the interface, power and heat limitations of tablets. On the move, you'd only be able to practically use ham-fisted, dumbed-down "apps" (why do you think MS pimped the metro interface so much?), even if the very same device can run "normal" Windows apps once you dock it in.

Even if at some point those points are addressed for a given technology level, desktops and laptops will have advanced further on. Tablets (and other portable tech) will NEVER lead the developments, but will always be based off downscaled and repurposed versions of their leading desktop counterparts.

Sorry, but I wouldn't want to replace a "desktop replacement laptop" with a tablet having way inferior heat disposal and ability to sustain full-power processing compared to a similarly priced laptop, even if the rest of the specs are the same. Tablet = laptop -keyboard -cooling system -upgradeability -cabled connectivity +touch screen

Perversely, if you try addressing some of the above points (e.g. cooling) the result would be way too thick and heavy to be called "a tablet", again at features and specs parity with a contemporary full-featured laptop. Sure, you can make a Pentium III-based tablet that weighs almost nothing and is paper-thin and gives you the full power (haha) of the very best Pentium III ever made. Would that make it a good tablet? Probably not. And no, I don't consider the MacBook Air as a good template for a desktop-replacement laptop ;-)

Sure, tablets may have their niche uses..but desktop killers? No way, not even laptop killer. Maybe as a secondary or even tertiary computer: desktop >> laptop >> tablet.

Last edited by Maes on 03-11-13 at 16:14

Old Post 03-11-13 16:07 #
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I've found that people look way more cool working at a 15" laptop on a desk (but even 11" laptops win) than by handling a tablet in front of them and rubbing it with their fingers.

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Old Post 03-11-13 16:40 #
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Fluffles
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Maes said:
Even then, your points have been addressed: even with a "good" OS and a broadly compatible platform, you'd still be limited by the interface, power and heat limitations of tablets. On the move, you'd only be able to practically use ham-fisted, dumbed-down "apps" (why do you think MS pimped the metro interface so much?), even if the very same device can run "normal" Windows apps once you dock it in.

Even if at some point those points are addressed for a given technology level, desktops and laptops will have advanced further on. Tablets (and other portable tech) will NEVER lead the developments, but will always be based off downscaled and repurposed versions of their leading desktop counterparts.

Sorry, but I wouldn't want to replace a "desktop replacement laptop" with a tablet having way inferior heat disposal and ability to sustain full-power processing compared to a similarly priced laptop, even if the rest of the specs are the same. Tablet = laptop -keyboard -cooling system -upgradeability -cabled connectivity +touch screen

Perversely, if you try addressing some of the above points (e.g. cooling) the result would be way too thick and heavy to be called "a tablet", again at features and specs parity with a contemporary full-featured laptop. Sure, you can make a Pentium III-based tablet that weighs almost nothing and is paper-thin and gives you the full power (haha) of the very best Pentium III ever made. Would that make it a good tablet? Probably not. And no, I don't consider the MacBook Air as a good template for a desktop-replacement laptop ;-)

Sure, tablets may have their niche uses..but desktop killers? No way, not even laptop killer. Maybe as a secondary or even tertiary computer: desktop >> laptop >> tablet.



Thing is there is no dumbed-down apps for these tablets as they are running exactly the same OS as desktops/laptops. I personally haven't had time to play with windows 8 yet but from what I've seen it'll be just like any other windows OS.

Currently yes they will get thicker to help with cooling. Will be lower power etc but you got to remember that hardware components get better each year and smaller each year aswell. Soon they'll end up of developed smaller lower powered very powerful processors.

Reason why I'm talking about them being a desktop replacement is for the majority of users. Not developers or people who do require a huge E-ATX PC.

Alot of desktops in the last 10 years have been replaced by laptops now anyway, your average user (who isn't a gamer) has a laptop instead of a desktop. Even then they have developed laptops good enough to run games like battlefield 3 at ultra quality high fps.

Dw I hate notebooks like the macbook air aswell, I think they are shit. They are like 90% of the tablet market at the moment.

Anyway it's useless discussing the future I guess. So I'll post back here in 10 years time for an update haha

Old Post 03-12-13 12:30 #
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Fluffles said:

Dw I hate notebooks like the macbook air aswell, I think they are shit. They are like 90% of the tablet market at the moment.

Isn't the Surface Pro a netbook with touchscreen and keyboard optional?

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Old Post 03-12-13 15:09 #
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Maes
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Fluffles said:
Thing is there is no dumbed-down apps for these tablets as they are running exactly the same OS as desktops/laptops.


And hence inherently unsuitable for use on a tablet or with a touchscreen, for that matter, so availability of apps alone is moot.


Fluffles said:
Currently yes they will get thicker to help with cooling. Will be lower power etc but you got to remember that hardware components get better each year and smaller each year aswell. Soon they'll end up of developed smaller lower powered very powerful processors.


Did you read anything of what I wrote? When those points will be addressed for a given tech level X, desktops and laptops will have advanced to X+1 (or X+2...or even beyond). And since you mentioned "using the same exact apps as desktops", how is that going to be desirable? Using modern apps with what equates to a computer of the previous generation or worse? Modern tablets are pretty much comparable to late Pentium III or early Pentium IV in raw CPU power, despite their multiple cores and without taking into account heat limitations. So that's about a decade of difference in raw CPU power levels. When this gap is bridged, desktops will have marched on, double time, and so on.

It's like discussing Achilles and the Turtle...with the difference that the Turtle is more like a Hare this time ;-)


Fluffles said:
Reason why I'm talking about them being a desktop replacement is for the majority of users. Not developers or people who do require a huge E-ATX PC.


So once again you come full circle and admit (in a roundabout way) that they will be, at best, a casual user's thing, which is of course OK if most people are indeed "just" casual users. Unfortunately, they never are. Take for example, all those people who bought cheap "Vista ready" laptops and got bit in the ass when they discovered that their "Vista ready" Intel GMA "GPU" couldn't play games for shit. "But when I chose it I reasoned that I'm not a dedicated gamer, I need to play a game now and then! Surely I should be able to do that, right?". Same reasoning. Sooner or later someone will want to use That One App that crosses the usability line...and then he/she will regret not getting a laptop or desktop instead.


Fluffles said:
Alot of desktops in the last 10 years have been replaced by laptops now anyway, your average user (who isn't a gamer) has a laptop instead of a desktop. Even then they have developed laptops good enough to run games like battlefield 3 at ultra quality high fps.


Not the same thing. Some laptops are designed to replace desktops (I use a big 17" Dell for this purpose, which it performs excellently), but I couldn't say the same about a 10" netbook, let alone a tablet. And yet, there were people claiming those would "kill" BOTH desktops and laptops, as they were "good enough for most people, who just use Facebook anyway". I can't count the times where desperate people with just a netbook were BEGGING me to find a way to upgrade them ("I really need to get job XYZ done with it/connect it to a bigger screen/etc.").

And even with laptops, it's very frequent to misjudge what equipment is important (e.g. many people sacrifice the GPU for a bigger HD or a few 100s MHz more in the CPU, until they realize that it's the one thing they cannot upgrade, unlike RAM, CPU and HD, and that without a decent GPU their quad-core laptop is just as suited for games as a S3 video card from 1996.


Fluffles said:
Anyway it's useless discussing the future I guess. So I'll post back here in 10 years time for an update haha


By that time the niche Tablets occupy today will have probably been filled by wrist-wearable flexy screens or air/goggle projection devices...with usability issues of their own. For where there is no reason to compromise power/usability with portability, standard desktops and laptops will still be King.

Last edited by Maes on 03-12-13 at 15:58

Old Post 03-12-13 15:48 #
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Amen.

Old Post 03-12-13 16:14 #
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