Doom 2 In Name Only - Now (supsiciously) on a load of gaming articles

Antroid said:

About the lavafall, as long as it is not the same liquid fall texture recolored into lava (which looks dumb as shit because lava should have entirely different consistency and would not look like that when slooowly sliding down) I'm fine with it. I think the best way to do it without drawing something entirely new (and thus breaking the mood of the otherwise non-custom-textured wad) or doing that shitty-ass waterfall recolor would be just having the lava floor texture, not stretched or anything, only slowly scrolling down. Can you do that?

AV has a pretty good lava fall texture that I think will satisfy your wants.

Actually to be honest I kind of like that one I just made better. AV's one is stretched vertically which I don't see lava really doing, and it's animation is even worse at depicting the fact that the lava slides downwards than my version's is.
Plus, for the purposes of the wad, mine looks more... I dunno, authentic? It looks basically like a 64*128 version of DBRAIN.

I like those lavafalls Antroid. Admittedly I do prefer the liquid-fall recolour, but this is pretty cool nevertheless.
An important improvement on this over DBRAINx is that is doesn't have a small border around the side of the texture. I can't use SLADE 3 though right now, so can you (or someone at least) put those into a WAD file, and I'll add them to the OP?

Regarding DM, I don't recall it ever being stated in the original aims of the thread so I guess we can forget it. I was sort of just adding it assuming that we were doing so. I've got co-op starts on my maps but that's it; not many/no multiplayer weapons/enemies.

EDIT: MAP14 is awesome. Finally got around to playing it after remembering I downloaded 7zip recently and can deal with RARs.

Eris Falling said:

Admittedly I do prefer the liquid-fall recolour, but this is pretty cool nevertheless.

That's just wrong, the liquid-fall recolor doesn't work for lava whatsoever.

Also, I think someone else should put them in a wad because I am endlessly confused about how textures and patches work when merging wads. I looked into the mud+waterfall wad from the OP and the patches seem to have entries in PNAMES, and there are 8 of those textures in TEXTURE1, which also has all the standard ones. But there aren't any "PP_START"-type markers. What I am not sure about is would the PNAMES numbers have a conflict unless I add the lavafalls in that same wad so their numbers are after the eight new numbers of mud and waterfalls? Is having all standard textures in TEXTURE1 really needed or could it just have the new ones? Are the patches going to merge corectly inbetween the PP_START and PP_END markers or is that unnecessary? How do you get the textures to animate in vanilla?

Beta 3 is now available.

Mostly optimizing with VPO and drawseg overflow. There shouldn't be any focal points where overflows are constant, but momentary overflows could be possible on some places. (I hope those are okay?)
Overall, nothing new, maybe bit more monsters (like max 9, mostly zombies) and some detail and VPO blocking details.

I am pretty much done with the map. Probably some monster placement/gameplay tweaks before compiling.
Oh, and when Map 9 is finished, I think I might redo the start. Possibly. (Because I like continuation.)

Just one drawseg overflow. Not too easy to trigger, by one of the doors in the big central area, with the vats. The resultant HOM fills most of the left side of the screen. 258/256 drawsegs used.
Didn't manage to find a higher visplane count than 117, so that's good.

I like the eyes in the red key are watching you, incase I didn't mention it :P

Eris Falling said:

Just one drawseg overflow. Not too easy to trigger, by one of the doors in the big central area, with the vats. The resultant HOM fills most of the left side of the screen. 258/256 drawsegs used.
Didn't manage to find a higher visplane count than 117, so that's good.

Dammit, that probably came out when I put those red pillars to minimize the VPO. Probably need to rough some edges on those half circular tanks.
And max visplane when I was trying to overflow it was 125 in the pipe room under the vats, so...

Icon of Sin is in progress. Its a bit of an experiment though so may or may not work. However you will be glad to hear that there will be no dropping off platforms and shooting rockets into holes tomfoolery. I'll say more about it when its done, might take a week or so.

mouldy said:

Icon of Sin is in progress. Its a bit of an experiment though so may or may not work. However you will be glad to hear that there will be no dropping off platforms and shooting rockets into holes tomfoolery. I'll say more about it when its done, might take a week or so.

If only there was a "like" thing on the forum :D

The Crusher is still in progress. I'm trying to juggle a lot of commitments. I do not see any problem hitting the deadline. The alpha will be up in a week or two.

Great stuff, one of those maps will be the 25th to appear in the OP >:D
Glad to hear MAP30 will be non-cliché.

Also, @Antroid -> Any updates on the lava WAD? I couldn't answer your questions because..well..I couldn't :P I'm gonna need the lava textures kind of soon since I'm coming to some sort of burial cavern that uses lava. Hopefully a lot of it.

Um, I didn't really do anything to it. I am hesitant to just go ahead and put them into a separate wad because I have no idea how that stuff is going to mesh together with the mud/waterfall wad. Also how to make sure it animates. Can anyone help here?

And Eris, I think you should be able to substitute with some other texture in case noone helps us with this before you get to that part. Just use one that otherwise won't appear in the map (for example a hitler portrait) and do a find->replace afterwards. ;)

Good to hear the progress. Keep them up, make them the most unforgettable experience for their name accordance!

I know this is a strange question but can anyone think of a good industrial zone style song. I've kind of fallen out of love with quad machine haha

ALT has some songs that might work I think. Try maps 06, 13, 17.

Ladies and gentlemen! I have come to an important conclusion: I can't stand running through my map29 again trying to determine if I have enough and not too much stuff lying around. Every time it's a different outcome. So I decided that the MAP29 ver.01 should be made available for all the good people who might be willing to help test it!

This is not the finished version. It doesn't mean that it's incomplete, but a bug or a misalignment or a bad case of item/enemy placement can surely crop up and will be fixed in that case - if possible. Difficulties are also not implemented at the moment. I'm thinking of just removing a couple of the more redundant mobs for the easier difficulties and maybe turning a stimpak or two into medkits. Oh, and also, coop starts are still missing at this point and the exit is currently a death exit. That last part is subject to change based on mouldy's wishes as an author of map30.

So, if you aren't afraid to spoil the penultimate map of the megawad for yourself, go ahead and try it, and report any and all thoughts of what I can or should do to this map. Enemies behaving awkwardly? Some sector not rising properly? Too much or not enough ammo? Cases of vanilla incompatibility? Who knows what I might've missed (and be aware that a savegame overflow IS going to happen). Dang, I've been holding onto this for so long, I lost the sense of satisfaction and accomplishment that I had for some time after finishing the layout and the initial thing placement, so I'm kinda apprehensive about how this map is gonna fare. Hopefully Eris hasn't overhyped it with his initial reactions back at the thread's early pages :D

Cool, I'll have a go at that tomorrow. You can keep the death exit, I am making map 30 into a quest for the 7 deadly weapons.

@Antroid: Impressive stuff there. I love the grand sense of scale. Nothing appeared broken action wise. I'm at work and only have ZDoom here so I can't tell you if any vanilla limits are being broken... BTW, if this works completely in vanilla with no VPOs then colour me astounded! Being on my non-preferred computer I had to run through with god mode, however ammo balance and weapons seemed spot on.

Thanks. Some areas come extremely close to having visplane or drawseg overflows, but I think I managed to salvage them all. Of course, if you venture beyond some fences where you're never supposed to be, then you're gonna see some glitchy crap, but I figure that should be acceptable.

Regarding the first spoiler, that's more or less a homage to the original. That last part is completely up to the player - if they want, they can have another fight, and if they don't, they can just skip. TBH I couldn't really figure out a way to make that unavoidable, but as you said that is the third one on the map, so I'm alright with it being as it is.

Regarding the second spoiler, what exactly was confusing? I assume you pressed a switch before going to that one place that makes it obvious what they do? I'd say that texture makes the switches look important enough, they are positioned in such a way that they look like pressing them is the point of going into any given area, and plus since it's nonlinear the whole idea should become clear once you find a second one. I think that's okay for the last map - especially since no real brainwork is even required, the player just explores the map and the pieces all fall together at some point.

Edit: Just noticed some mistakes regarding hidden and "secret" linedefs on the automap. Fixed it in my "internal version", the automap should be [even more] nice and clean of unneeded linedefs.

Antroid said:

Regarding the second spoiler, what exactly was confusing? I assume you pressed a switch before going to that one place that makes it obvious what they do?

Actually, that one place was the very last place I visited (before the exit), and by then all the barriers were down. I just loaded the map up again and I can see what you mean now... If I had spotted that area first, then the rest would have made more sense! I was running around thinking to myself "WTF do these bloody great big skull switches do!!" Heh, gotta love non-linear maps...

glenzinho said:

Actually, that one place was the very last place I visited (before the exit), and by then all the barriers were down. I just loaded the map up again and I can see what you mean now... If I had spotted that area first, then the rest would have made more sense! I was running around thinking to myself "WTF do these bloody great big skull switches do!!" Heh, gotta love non-linear maps...

I can see how that place can easily end up last on most people's playthroughs. Even I go into the "subway tunnel" most of the time during testing, and not up that lift. I guess it adds a sense of wonder and mystery to the exploration then! :D

Antroid said:

I can see how that place can easily end up last on most people's playthroughs. Even I go into the "subway tunnel" most of the time during testing, and not up that lift. I guess it adds a sense of wonder and mystery to the exploration then! :D

Heh, well I was wondering where to go... it was complete mystery ;)

glenzinho said:

Heh, well I was wondering where to go... it was complete mystery ;)

I can mark it down as "works as intended" then X~D

cannonball said:

I know this is a strange question but can anyone think of a good industrial zone style song. I've kind of fallen out of love with quad machine haha

Aw, I love that track! I first heard it on MAP15 so I always associate it with running up and down the streets :P

And....an official release for MAP29! Finally! :D Can't wait to pl- wait a minute...
Well all the same, downloading now >:)

Here is a FDA for map29. lol

Memfis said:

Here is a FDA for map29. lol

Thanks a lot! You got way, waaay farther on your first attempt than I ever get w/o saves, and I'm the freaking author. Plus some areas (particularly that one "trap" with two mancubi, a baron behind you and a view out the windows) you did in the exact same manner I always do and it took me quite a few tries to figure them out. The cyb+archie part was also fascinating to watch. Overall I daresay it looked like playing it was fun. Except the death which kinda looked like a deliberate suicide because you were sick of it all :D
Any thoughts on the map? Did you enjoy it? Do you plan on completing it (unless you already did that of course)?

Edit:

Eris Falling said:

And....an official release for MAP29! Finally! :D Can't wait to pl- wait a minute...
Well all the same, downloading now >:)

Well, it is a tiny bit different from the version you had. Should actually be playable now, and there's that little "screw you" metal barrier before the "library/grocery store" area that prevents you from running right back into the subway tunnel after you aggro all the revvies.

Map29
Played this morning, just idqd'ed through to check ammo balance and the overall level. Semi-non linear map which requires 4 switches to exit, one of them being at the exit so it's pretty much 3 switches which are marked with the same switch texture. The look of this map is really unique and perhaps a bit alien. I like it. The action is varied. Beneath the skinwall city and the flesh underbelly is this area which is a mash up of tech and hell, but doesn't give the same feel as the rest of the map. The rooftop area with the cyber and many other baddies feels the high point here giving a peril-less atmosphere which really surround the open cityscape with the black void surrounding it.
Ammo was pretty tight without the secrets but manageable. Difficult seems tricky but not over the top.
Good job so far.

Antroid said:

Except the death which kinda looked like a deliberate suicide

I saw that and did a cinematic style "noooo" at the screen. I figured it would be better to watch the FDA rather than attempt the level myself to start with. I would've died at/before the first Cyber.

I have no idea how rocket launcher got selected, I pressed "4" and then I guess I accidentally moved the mousewheel? ("next weapon") It was so strange and unexpected that I wasn't even mad, just very very surprised.
It was an enjoyable map with somewhat unusual visual theme (such extensive use of the SKIN textures is rare) and some interesting/tricky encounters. I don't know if I'll play it again, I rarely replay maps I already more or less know and prefer to download new ones instead. But it's certainly a solid effort, you show a lot of creativity so now I look forward to your ZDoom project even more. :)

cannonball said:

Beneath the skinwall city and the flesh underbelly is this area which is a mash up of tech and hell, but doesn't give the same feel as the rest of the map.

That's supposed to be like "the old city", an actual former human city that sunk deep into the earth, got submerged in magma and buried under rubble and other shit. It's certainly not "living" but I felt like doing it because I thought it complimented the whole concept behind the map (a new "living" city growing on top of a ruined real one) and made it more varied.

Memfis said:

I don't know if I'll play it again, I rarely replay maps I already more or less know and prefer to download new ones instead.

I was really hoping you'd hit that rooftop area with another cyber that cannonball mentioned. And the last room of the buried city that also has rooftops. Basically the two large areas you didn't reach in the FDA. But oh well, can't force ya to replay it :p Thanks for the compliments, but my zdoom project is a bit different in style and I'm not sure that this map and my other contributions are a good way to judge whether you'll like it or not. But we'll see. I'm certainly working on it still, no matter how much I doubt that people who enjoyed my maps so far are going to like it.

I made UV 100% run, and so far...

Awesome work. The level is not blocked for you, so you can poke around the way you like. Big + on my part. In visual, it looks quite good. With the fleshy bits, hell city-esque parts... I find it appropriate for the name.

Then the enemy and item placement. For items, I always thought "map needs more ammo", yet I always had ammo. Like, no ammo for shotgun, chaingun or plasma, but more than enough rockets. As for the challenges... Well. Numerous amounts of "fuck you" moments (Cyberdemon + archie burning your arse, the place where you need to reach central place, filled with archies, and the- OH FUCKS SAKE another one raising hell knights and a baron back to action), some tough fights (the Cybie #2, not really good places to fight, plus imps pelting you and baron giving some fire support, too bad I couldn't make them infight with eachother. Imps were more cooperative, somehow.)
A small idea for the end though...
The last fight with cyberdemon, I found it rather... anticlimatic. How about... Spider Mastermind with its hell knight cohort, being guardians to the final level?


As overall... I find this quite enjoyable to romp through. If put it in as is, it's more than good enough.