[GEC] Master Edition PSX Doom for the PlayStation. Beta 4 Released [11/16/2022]

[dftf]

TNT Level 13: Central Processing

 

Not a biggie, but I always liked in the original PSX versions how the entire door for a keycard/skullcard door matched the colour of the required card.

(Makes it easier to see from afar where a colour door is, for example; plus, I just find it visually a nicer effect.)

 

May I suggest making all such doors in every PSX map like this, to keep this consistent?

[dftf]

TNT Level 14: Administrator Centre

 

Another area that currently has very-fast flashing effects (the two podiums) and could trigger an Epileptic so I'd advise lowering the speed of the effect

[dftf]

TNT, Level 17: Mount Pain

 

This area near the end of the level has a hole in the centre.

When you walk over it a Radiation Suit sprite appears, floating in-front of you (it cannot be collected though)

[dftf]

TNT, Level 17: Mount Pain

 

Another area of flicker that should be toned-down to avoid possible Epileptic responses

[dftf]

TNT, Level 18: River Styx

 

I'm assuming the lava on this level is supposed to be damaging -- if so, then none of it currently is

[dftf]

TNT, Level 18: River Styx

 

Another area of possible Epilepsy-triggering flicker to consider

[VGA]

One man testing army :D

[Lollie]

@dftf It might be worth including automap screenshots in some cases if possible, just to make it easier to quickly find and fix these areas (TNT 13 and 18 are good examples of areas where this would be helpful).

 

Glad to see design consistency issues being pointed out (color-tinted key doors, switch types), as well as epilepsy-potential areas!

[dftf]

Main Episode, Level 2: Forgotten Sewers

 

There is a possible Epileptic-triggering flashing-effect where the SoulSphere is (see green circle on AutoMap for area as per @Lollie's suggestion)

[dftf]

Main Episode, Level 3: Hell Keep

The AutoMap seems to be unable to complete itself for the starting area (I have completely circled the area before going into it).

Rest of the level draws fine on the AutoMap however

[dftf]

Main Episode, Level 5: Slough of Despair

I was unable to pickup most of the Armour Bonuses in the Shotgun Guy 'rooms'

[dftf]

Main Episode, Level 6: They Will Repent

The floor here is supposed to be blood, yet it hurts when you run over it.  I appreciate this is likely following the original design of the level, but given you're able to change some textures up could I suggest replacing it with a lava texture?

 

DOOM in general seems to be a bit inconsistent with the use of blood: sometimes it hurts, other times it doesn't.  Really, it never should and unlike lava it's not going to be at such a temperature as to harm you.  I feel using lava in such places makes it more-consistent to know damage will be caused.

[dftf]

Main Episode, Level 6: They Will Repent

The red doors in this level don't appear to be shaded the colour of the required key, whereas the blue and yellow ones later in the level are.

(Though the shading colour is more-subtle than in some other levels.)

[dftf]

Main Episode, Level 7: Against Thee Wickedly

The damaging lava floor boundary extends into the caged area with the stone floor, so damage should not be occurring where Doomguy is stood

[dftf]

Main Episode, Level 8: And Hell Followed

Again, while I'm sure this is the original design of the level, this doesn't feel like an end-of-level switch to me.

Nothing about the design of the area screams "level exit".

Could I suggest at-least adding some "EXIT" signs around the top of the structure perhaps, or people may inadvertently trigger it.

[dftf]

Main Episode, Level 9: Dis

TEXTURE_CACHE_OVERFLOW.  I ran around the area and got the Spider Mastermind to shoot-at the Barons and Pain Elementals.

I guess after a certain number of Lost Souls, the game struggled.  Also, using the BFG would cause this instantly at that point.

 

Also, when I was running behind the Pain Elementals to invoke the infighting, I did notice that before the Spider Mastermind shot them, they were spitting-out Lost Souls which were only travelling a short-distance before instantly exploding (they were not targeting me either).  Maybe this caused a bug which explains my 2360% kill count?

[Mordeth]

@dftf Please don't make lots of sequential posts; preference here is to make one post with all your content. Other then this, keep up the good work :)

[dftf]

47 minutes ago, Mordeth said:

@dftf Please don't make lots of sequential posts; preference here is to make one post with all your content. Other then this, keep up the good work :)

 

I'm not sure when doing that how to make have separate paragraphs of text with the related images below them... if I do "choose files..." they just appear in-bulk at the bottom so it'll be confusing which relate to which point.

 

Is there a way to insert images in-line?

[Dexiaz]

9 minutes ago, dftf said:

 

Is there a way to insert images in-line?

imgur.com

[dftf]

Level 10: Industrial Zone

   •  The Megasphere seems impossible to get, due to differences in the run-speed in the PSX engine

   •  The two yellow doors on this level don't appear shaded, unlike the blue (can't recall if the red was or not?)

   •  The secret at the top of the castle (lowers a gate for a teleport) is insanely difficult to do, due to the PSX engine timing-differences

 

( @Mordeth: I've put all the issues for this level as one post, to reduce-down.  If it's possible to insert images as part of the text let me know, as I can't see an "insert image" option and pasting an image in doesn't do this either.  Thanks!)

[dftf]

Just now, Deⓧiaz said:

imgur.com

 

Ah... I don't use that.  Is there any image service that doesn't require a sign-up you could suggest?

(Though there is the issue then that if the service ever closes-down, any images embedded from it are then lost...)

[Impboy4]

You don't need to sign up to use Imgur. Just upload your pics and link them back to here.

[dftf]

2 minutes ago, Impboy4 said:

You don't need to sign up to use Imgur. Just upload your pics and link them back to here.

 

Ah, okay, the site was slow to load and all I could see at the top was "Sign in" and "Sign up" but can see the "New post" option now.

 

I'll try it next time, thanks!

[mr-around]

3 hours ago, dftf said:

Ah, okay, the site was slow to load and all I could see at the top was "Sign in" and "Sign up" but can see the "New post" option now.

 

You don't actually have to use any image sharing sites. Simply click on your attachments below (where the screenshots you upload are) when submiting a post, and those will be placed into the reply edit box where you can drag em' anywhere.

 

BTW, thanks for pointing this out, I'l fix that toward the next beta release (yeah, I'm author of these conversions)

On 4/7/2020 at 7:47 PM, dftf said:

May I suggest making all such doors in every PSX map like this, to keep this consistent?



 

There is a possible Epileptic-triggering flashing-effect where the SoulSphere is (see green circle on AutoMap for area as per @Lollie's suggestion)

 

6 hours ago, dftf said:

Main Episode, Level 2: Forgotten Sewers

 

There is a possible Epileptic-triggering flashing-effect where the SoulSphere is (see green circle on AutoMap for area as per @Lollie's suggestion)



On 4/7/2020 at 7:50 PM, dftf said:

TNT Level 14: Administrator Centre

 

Another area that currently has very-fast flashing effects (the two podiums) and could trigger an Epileptic so I'd advise lowering the speed of the effect

[Dark Pulse]

On 4/6/2020 at 5:35 PM, dftf said:

TNT Level 2: Hanger

 

I found it very-difficult to get the AutoMap secret in the spiral staircase -- far-moreso than I'd expect for this level in the PC version.

 

I suspect what's happening is that the switch timer still lasts the same time as it would on PC (about 2-3 seconds) but as the frame-rate is lower in the PSX engine, Doomguy travels slower making it harder to get in (yes, I was holding run!)

 

I can only suggest either seeing if it's possible to make the switch stay on a second longer, or maybe redesign the level slightly to bring the switch nearer.

 

(I have noticed a number of times in various levels where timed sections are harder due to the framerate/Doomguy speed difference.)

It is possible, I tested it myself and made sure it was humanly possible to do. The secret should be hard, but doable - the key is to make sure you're moving and strafing at the same time; if you take the time to turn to line up for the spiral doorway, you'll almost always miss it. Back out, strafe left immediately, then more or less move forward and strafe right at the same time. The secret is dead ahead from the opening, so you should get in with maybe a second or so to spare.

 

I can't really adjust the switch timer for obvious reasons - Doom doesn't give us that flexibility (and PSX Doom certainly doesn't); switches are fixed-timer based upon their state - in this case, lower floor to lowest neighboring floor, wait four seconds, raise to original floor height. In other words, to "increase" the time, I'd have to increase the height of the step, which would break the spiral stair effect. And moving the secret is not possible either - since, well, where else can it go? Not to mention it being dead ahead from the opening is actually the fastest way if you run for it right.

 

I did have to adjust some things in that secret though, since PSX Doom's switch check detection is extremely generous - otherwise you would've been able to activate the secret from the back wall. :) This necessitated me adding a switch to the inside of the room to drop the wall back down (in the PC version, you just used the wall).

 

15 hours ago, dftf said:

Main Episode, Level 9: Dis

TEXTURE_CACHE_OVERFLOW.  I ran around the area and got the Spider Mastermind to shoot-at the Barons and Pain Elementals.

I guess after a certain number of Lost Souls, the game struggled.  Also, using the BFG would cause this instantly at that point.

 

Also, when I was running behind the Pain Elementals to invoke the infighting, I did notice that before the Spider Mastermind shot them, they were spitting-out Lost Souls which were only travelling a short-distance before instantly exploding (they were not targeting me either).  Maybe this caused a bug which explains my 2360% kill count?

I've admittedly never run into the texture cache overflow problem on this map, but yes, if you got a ton of lost souls in the level (as your screenshot does) the level will probably bomb out. Kill them faster, man! :)

 

The PE instantly exploding lost souls is a bug I'm aware of, but I don't think I can really fix it. I think it's something to do with the Spider Mastermind having really weird bounding box clipping. Then again, it could also be that it's actually a memory overflow issue, since that SEEMS to be one of the things that can happen if you're running close to being out of memory.

 

The kill counter is due to the lost souls spawning in general. It's due to the game counting lost souls as killable enemies (in PC Doom this was removed as of 1.666), so basically, anytime you kill an enemy that wasn't on the map originally, the kill counter will continue to go up and up. It's harmless though.

[dftf]

Okay, finished the remainder of the Main Episode today so as per @Mordeth's request here's one post with links to images

 

Level 11: Betray

   •  Is the acid-floor in this level supposed to be damaging or not?  (I think this was an Xbox 360 level I've never played...)

   •  The blue door near the start of the level is not shaded in PSX style

   •  A white teleport has a strobing effect

 

Level 12: Gotcha

   •  No Spider Mastermind in the fight against the Cyberdemon.  (Clearly this is because the size of the SM sprite set; though as this is a highlight of this level does feel a bit empty without it.  Possible suggestions: (1) could the level be split in two, so "Gotcha Part 1" and "Gotcha Part 2", similar to DOOM II levels on the GBA version; the second part being right after this fight, or (2) maybe consider some other idea, such as loads of barrels and a raised edge around the Cyberdemon so you can seriously damage it (maybe more than one Cyberdemon) or a crushing ceiling above you can activate or (3) just remove the room entirely)

 

Level 13: The Chasm

   •  In an open area where you raise the floor, the teleport becomes a glitchy texture after the floor has raised

   •  A red door is not shaded in the PSX DOOM style

 

Level 17: The Earth Base

   •  A fast strobing effect on the blue keycard podium should be altered

   •  A yellow door is not shaded in the PSX DOOM style

   •  The texture used where a bridge meets a wall becomes very corrupt-looking in design as you move around

 

Level 20: Hell Mountain

   •  The blood on this level causes damage; I'd suggest replacing with lava, as DOOM is very-inconsistent in its levels as to whether blood will hurt or not

 

Level 21: Vivisection

   •  A texture on the back of a step has a corrupt texture

 

Level 23: Baron's Banquet

   •  A stage decoration is oddly set to transparent (like a Nightmare Spectre)

   •  There is an area with Cacodemons and Armour Bonuses which you get stuck in if you enter (even if this is intentional, I'd suggest revising it as it doesn't feel very "console", given in the PSX original, you can't save mid-level as in the PC version, so you'd have to start the level over if playing authentically)

 

Level 27: Wolfenstein

   •  A minor thing but I always feel this level's design is over-the-top compared to the original, with the multiple ceiling heights.  I think the level would look better if it actually looked as close to Wolfenstein 3D's E1M1 as possible

 

Anyway, hope this feedback helps!  I had fun playing!

[Dexiaz]

 

13 minutes ago, dftf said:

   •  A white teleport has a strobing effect

 

As intended. You're focusing too much on "anti epileptic" theme. The PSX Doom is not GZDoom, we're using only stock engine parameters. If developers (John Carmack mostly) allowed to use strobing effects ingame - it's not prohibited in mapping.

 

I can agree with Plutonia' Sewers situation with long red corridor, but not with all other situations you have mentioned in other posts. I'm not saying that we should forget about epileptic gamers, but the original PSX Doom have already used this effect many times and nobody complained to this. As a compromise, I can offer to make a special version of the game with no strobing effects, BUT only after the release.

[riderr3]

On 4/6/2020 at 6:48 PM, dftf said:

Level 16: Tombstone

To exit this level you have to find three switches, one for each for the three coloured keycards, and turn them on.

I thought the level was glitched initially, as I had pressed all three, but the exit was still inside the walls.

Strange, because for 2 years it never happened to me or somebody else.

My playthrough confirms that everything is well, I've also tested on real hardware:

 

Check your settings, and it is best when you have real hardware or a properly configured emulator (look in the thread, Xebra was also recommended here).

 

On 4/6/2020 at 6:48 PM, dftf said:

Level 16: Tombstone

Annoyingly, all three switches are the "double-press" type, where you have to press USE twice to set them permanently on. 

 

Could I suggest removing this type of switch from all levels and just using the normal type?

I think having the double-press type just make some levels unnecessarily awkward.

 

This is not entirely correct.
First of all.
Reusable switches have always been, are, and will be.
Secondly.
This is the one-time S1 switch (click to enlarge):

But! In the PSX Doom, if the switch with the key used for remote door, then it acts like a reusable one. And there is enough one click to open the door (watch the vid).

 

On 4/7/2020 at 12:29 AM, dftf said:

Not a level-specific issue, but a PSX engine overall request: is it possible to hide the areas on the AutoMap where enemies are stored (see arrows in screenshot). 

 

I got 100% secrets on that level, but these white/grey areas on the map often make me waste-time thinking they are secret-areas.

 

Is this possible to make the AutoMap not show these?

It's also presented on official PSX Doom/Final maps. It's an PSX Doom feature. This lines already can be hidden but when you picking automap item, you can find them. There is no extra tick for hiding them specifically for automap.

 

On 4/8/2020 at 1:38 AM, dftf said:

TNT, Level 18: River Styx

 

I'm assuming the lava on this level is supposed to be damaging -- if so, then none of it currently is

The original map also lacked the damage effect on the lava. Have you ever played TNT Evilution?

 

On 4/8/2020 at 6:50 PM, dftf said:

Main Episode, Level 6: They Will Repent

The red doors in this level don't appear to be shaded the colour of the required key, whereas the blue and yellow ones later in the level are.

(Though the shading colour is more-subtle than in some other levels.)

These are all trifles and nitpicking. Such trifles remain at the decision of those who converted the maps and they are not mandatory corrections.

 

On 4/8/2020 at 9:14 PM, dftf said:

Level 10: Industrial Zone

   •  The Megasphere seems impossible to get, due to differences in the run-speed in the PSX engine 

 

It's possible to pick it.

Just do not overclock the emulator! Even if you don’t do this, your CPU is probably too powerful and therefore Doomguy falls into the pits ahead of time, or clocking is just wrong (everything is OK on the console). This has already been discussed in the thread a hundred times.

 

6 hours ago, dftf said:

Level 27: Wolfenstein

   •  A minor thing but I always feel this level's design is over-the-top compared to the original, with the multiple ceiling heights.  I think the level would look better if it actually looked as close to Wolfenstein 3D's E1M1 as possible

In my opinion this alternate look is looking well.

 

Quote

Level 21: The Sewers

The flashing effect used in this tunnel and on this ledge with the health-packs and plasma rifle should be set to one of the slower-rate ones, as the current flicker-rate could trigger someone with epilepsy.  I'm not myself, but I did find it hard to keep looking at the screen.

 

That's not "epileptic" trigger. This is exclusive trigger added for PSX Doom/Final which is also presented in official PSX Doom levels.

 

By the way, a small offtopic: on modern consoles there even is a warning about epilepsy:

Spoiler

A very small percentage of individuals may experience epileptic seizures or blackouts when exposed to certain light patterns or flashing lights. Exposure to certain patterns or backgrounds on a television screen or when playing video games may trigger epileptic seizures or blackouts in these individuals. These conditions may trigger previously undetected epileptic symptoms or seizures in persons who have no history of prior seizures or epilepsy. If you, or anyone in your family has an epileptic condition or has had seizures of any kind, consult your physician before playing.

So this is not a reason to cut anything, and therefore such warnings exist. That is, do you actually propose banning this trigger that was created specifically for the PSX Doom? Let's not dispute it and give the mappers a decision of their own discretion (TNT Level 14: Administration Centre decision will be on mr-around).

 

I think that small areas can have such an effect. Especially nobody complained for 2 years about these flashes.

 

Edited April 10, 2020 by riderr3

[Lollie]

5 hours ago, riderr3 said:

That's not "epileptic" trigger. This is exclusive trigger added for PSX Doom/Final which is also presented in official PSX Doom levels.

Are you assuming that the term "epileptic trigger" is being used to refer to a specific feature in PSX Doom? Because that's not the case lol. A higher-frequency flash is just something that can cause an epileptic reaction in a person, that's how the term "trigger" is being used here.

 

They're worth bringing up for consideration, as you do have an opportunity here to change the effects without removing them. For example, you could select from one of the handful of slower-frequency flickers or light pulse effects, *or* GEC could consider directly altering/softening the higher-frequency flicker effects in the Doom engine (especially now that PSX Doom has been disassembled).

 

That nobody has complained about the flashing to this point doesn't mean that they aren't an issue. It just means that current team members haven't personally felt the effects themselves. You might not be as sensitive to flashing/flicker effects compared to other people.

 

If you really don't want to alter the effects though, then at least consider adding a warning upfront, before the main menu.

[Dexiaz]

1 hour ago, Lollie said:

If you really don't want to alter the effects though, then at least consider adding a warning upfront, before the main menu.

 

This +100500. The best solution right now.