michealrockshim Posted February 2, 2022 I made a first doom wad, Flesh and metal. It's a Slaughter Map and Crappy. Actually, I build this wad at last year. but I didn't know how sigh up doomworld back then. here some screenshots. and one more thing, this wad has only single map. Have Fun! FleshandMetal.zip 7 Share this post Link to post
Murdoch Posted February 2, 2022 Screens shots look pretty decent for a first time author. I shall download and try it out later. 1 Share this post Link to post
PeceMan Posted February 2, 2022 (edited) Spoiler Boy do I have some notes General things: Spoiler 1. I personally love Slaughter, but it's been a while since something managed scratch that itch for me. This one was it. It was a lot of fun, and I definitely recommend it to any slaughter fans. Having said that, some aspects of it definitely need some work. 2. I heavily recommend setting your screenshots to "spoiler", as I did with my image. Not only is it better in case people don't want to be spoiled, it also makes your post more organized. 3. This is a VERY ambitious map, especially for a starter wad. It has almost 3k enemies, and by the end, the Archviles will make it 3k+. I get that if you're working on heavy slaughter, you really need to amp up the monster count. But if you're not that experienced in mapping, it's definitely a better idea to start small. 4. The choice of music is kinda wonky. First of all, the two songs are literally 95% of the wad's size. And one of them is only used in the ending. Also, the song has lyrics. That's a very unusual choice, which is for a reason. Lyrics can really distract players, especially if they're in a language the player understands. Lucky for me, the lyrics to the song were in japanese (or at least I assume they were in japanese), which I don't speak, so to me they were closer to white noise. 5. Holy shit, the slaughter here is VERY heavy. The heaviest I've played in like a year. I loved it, but some people probably won't. You really need to bring across the true weight of your level in the level post, otherwise people might enter with the wrong expectations. For instance, your screenshots rarely show the player fighting more than 10 enemies at a time. Which is SO VERY NOT the actual level experience. 6. Slaughter (especially the heavy kind) really isn't that popular in the community. Just letting you know. 7. Some areas of your level are a bit heavily reliant on door camping. You're allowed to center your wad around door camping if you wish, but that's not normally expected, or enjoyed for that matter. 8. The BFG renders the plasma gun useless. Just an FYI. I know the plasma gun TECHNICALLY consumes less ammunition, but ammunition is very easily accesible for most of the wad, and if you do the actual math, each shot of the BFG deals in total more damage than 40 shots of the plasma gun, so it's almost always cheaper to just use the BFG. 9. I probably should've mentioned this earlier, but I played your level with the gameplay mod Supercharge. Supercharge is just more fun for me than vanilla. The reason this might be important, is because supercharge has a tendency to make wads easier, if only a bit. Also, upon revision, the secret I missed was the Berserk, which I always left there as a precaution, in case I could use it later. But that didn't happen. 10. There's a bit too much flesh in your level. I know the level is called "Flesh and Metal", but the flesh textures are just a bit less interesting than the metal textures. So after a while, the flesh area really begins to drag on. Also, there are way less flesh textures than metal textures, so any flesh based areas are bound to be less varied. This is deterimental to the level's overal image. I get the feeling, mapping with flesh textures is probably considerably easier than mapping with the metal textures. I asume that's why there's much more flesh than metal in your level? 11. About balancing ammunition and health, the flesh part is WAY stingier than the metal part. I found myselfconstantly returning to the metal part long after completing it, just to refill on health and armor. I recommend adding considerable ammounts of ammunition and of health pickups to the flesh section. 12. While on the subject of ammunition, the last two areas don't have nearly enough ammuntion. This is especially annoying in the second to last arena. You provided plenty of invulnerabilities, but they don't help if you can't pass through the wall of enemies. By the time you reach the Archviles, you're bound to be out of BFG ammunition AND rockets. And then the Archviles will just knockback you all the way to the other wall. I would've enjoyed that section a lot more if you had provided cell packs in the section. That section was literally the only section I didn't clear of enemies in the level, which pisses me off. 13. The final area devolves into just running in circles, waiting for the enemies to infight each other to death. But after that, there are way too many knights and barons left, because they are tankier than the common enemies, and don't take friendly fire damage from each other. I don't like running around in circles. I like to hold down the W key and Mouse 1, and continuosly and actively thin the herd. But in this section, that was not an option. Instead, I had to patiently lure the demons away from the center pillar, in hopes of finding ammunition there. Luckily, there was. Cell packs and rocket boxes at the edges of the circle would've really helped me enjoy that section way more than I did. In fact, mainly because of that reason (and the overdependence on the flesh textures), I really felt like the final two arenas were of considerably lower quality than the first half of the wad. 14. Speaking of the final arena, it's too big for it's own good. I once heard someone use the term "Nuts wanabe", which I think kinda fits that area. I also heard someone say "No monster is scary if the room is big enough", which I think fits that section 100%. Once I finally reached the center pillar, there were some invulnerabilities there. But I didn't need them! I needed rockets! I had more than enough space to just safely circle strafe around them, which again, isn't really that fun, or engaging. 15. Speaking of rockets, you REALLY need to provide more rockets, especially when entering the final two areas. Technical things: Spoiler 1. All of your doors have this issue: you need to set the lines at the edges of the doors to "Lower unpegged". Try it, you'll like the difference. 2. Some monsters (especially the imps at the start of the flesh section) should probably be set to AMBUSH. This'll prevent them from calmly walking towards the door, where the player can easily spam them with rockets. 3. Some doors require keys, but that information is not accurately brought across. There are textures in the "Doors" section which can be placed besides doors, to indicate the need for a specific key. You actually did use those textures for the space that required the 3 keys. But the red key door in the metal section wasn't properly signaled. 4. Some textures are not properly aligned. There's an ALIGN tool in Doom builder, which can help you align them in bulk. The keyboard shortcut is "A" while in the 3D view. Regular A algins the textures horizontally, shift + A alings the textures vertically. 5. In the flesh section, you have some switches which use the closed eye texture, and open once pressed. You are allowed to do this, but the expected standard is the that the eye starts open, and once pressed, closes. 6. The lift to exit the blood pit in the second to last section is way, WAY too slow. And the pit is way too big. 7. The door space in the final pillar isn't marked. I only found it after laboriously tapping "use" on every inch of the pillar. 8. The elevator in the final area is also way too slow. 9. I apologize if this comes across as mean. I really don't mean any disrespect. It's about your english. Let me preface by saying I'm not a native english speaker myself, so I know what it's like to not have the words ready in your mind when you need them. This is mainly about the final text. It's perfectly fine if the english isn't perfect, but that text in particular really seemed to not have had much effort put into it, which is a shame, because the level has clearly had A LOT effort put into it. Now, even despite the fact that the grammar isn't perfect, you could've done a closer revision of the orthography. I remember the word "Destoryed". For orthographical corections, you can use text editors, like Office Word. Google translate can also get the job done. Both of these would also help you correct the text's grammar. 1 Share this post Link to post
Murdoch Posted February 2, 2022 Oh it's a slaughtermap? Hmm damn, can't stand them sorry. Still looks like a pretty decent effort for a first timer. 2 Share this post Link to post
Dubbag Posted February 2, 2022 Please don't use mp3s in your maps. I thought we all forgot about Maximum the Hormone. 3 Share this post Link to post
Nefelibeta Posted February 2, 2022 I played this on UV, here's some thoughts. Spoiler Pretty descent for a beginner's map, but there's still something that need to be improved. Well, you should care more about ammo, health, and enemy placements. For instance, there are too many cells, rockets, and items in general, that will make your map a lot easier(and somewhat not very challenging) considering if you want to make a slaughtermap, which is designed to be challenging. The arenas are usually very big, causing some situations like circle-strafing, and should be avoided. Try limit the movement space by locking the player with bars or doors, and increase the variety of monsters. It is recommended to use more cyberdemons, and create fights where you need to intentionally lure the cybers and other demons to infight, though it isn't necessary for you to create an intersting fight. Also please don't use too many barons, they're mostly only threatening when used in close-quarter combat, and shouldn't be used too loosely. 2 Share this post Link to post
michealrockshim Posted February 2, 2022 6 hours ago, PeceMan said: Reveal hidden contents Boy do I have some notes General things: Reveal hidden contents 1. I personally love Slaughter, but it's been a while since something managed scratch that itch for me. This one was it. It was a lot of fun, and I definitely recommend it to any slaughter fans. Having said that, some aspects of it definitely need some work. 2. I heavily recommend setting your screenshots to "spoiler", as I did with my image. Not only is it better in case people don't want to be spoiled, it also makes your post more organized. 3. This is a VERY ambitious map, especially for a starter wad. It has almost 3k enemies, and by the end, the Archviles will make it 3k+. I get that if you're working on heavy slaughter, you really need to amp up the monster count. But if you're not that experienced in mapping, it's definitely a better idea to start small. 4. The choice of music is kinda wonky. First of all, the two songs are literally 95% of the wad's size. And one of them is only used in the ending. Also, the song has lyrics. That's a very unusual choice, which is for a reason. Lyrics can really distract players, especially if they're in a language the player understands. Lucky for me, the lyrics to the song were in japanese (or at least I assume they were in japanese), which I don't speak, so to me they were closer to white noise. 5. Holy shit, the slaughter here is VERY heavy. The heaviest I've played in like a year. I loved it, but some people probably won't. You really need to bring across the true weight of your level in the level post, otherwise people might enter with the wrong expectations. For instance, your screenshots rarely show the player fighting more than 10 enemies at a time. Which is SO VERY NOT the actual level experience. 6. Slaughter (especially the heavy kind) really isn't that popular in the community. Just letting you know. 7. Some areas of your level are a bit heavily reliant on door camping. You're allowed to center your wad around door camping if you wish, but that's not normally expected, or enjoyed for that matter. 8. The BFG renders the plasma gun useless. Just an FYI. I know the plasma gun TECHNICALLY consumes less ammunition, but ammunition is very easily accesible for most of the wad, and if you do the actual math, each shot of the BFG deals in total more damage than 40 shots of the plasma gun, so it's almost always cheaper to just use the BFG. 9. I probably should've mentioned this earlier, but I played your level with the gameplay mod Supercharge. Supercharge is just more fun for me than vanilla. The reason this might be important, is because supercharge has a tendency to make wads easier, if only a bit. Also, upon revision, the secret I missed was the Berserk, which I always left there as a precaution, in case I could use it later. But that didn't happen. 10. There's a bit too much flesh in your level. I know the level is called "Flesh and Metal", but the flesh textures are just a bit less interesting than the metal textures. So after a while, the flesh area really begins to drag on. Also, there are way less flesh textures than metal textures, so any flesh based areas are bound to be less varied. This is deterimental to the level's overal image. I get the feeling, mapping with flesh textures is probably considerably easier than mapping with the metal textures. I asume that's why there's much more flesh than metal in your level? 11. About balancing ammunition and health, the flesh part is WAY stingier than the metal part. I found myselfconstantly returning to the metal part long after completing it, just to refill on health and armor. I recommend adding considerable ammounts of ammunition and of health pickups to the flesh section. 12. While on the subject of ammunition, the last two areas don't have nearly enough ammuntion. This is especially annoying in the second to last arena. You provided plenty of invulnerabilities, but they don't help if you can't pass through the wall of enemies. By the time you reach the Archviles, you're bound to be out of BFG ammunition AND rockets. And then the Archviles will just knockback you all the way to the other wall. I would've enjoyed that section a lot more if you had provided cell packs in the section. That section was literally the only section I didn't clear of enemies in the level, which pisses me off. 13. The final area devolves into just running in circles, waiting for the enemies to infight each other to death. But after that, there are way too many knights and barons left, because they are tankier than the common enemies, and don't take friendly fire damage from each other. I don't like running around in circles. I like to hold down the W key and Mouse 1, and continuosly and actively thin the herd. But in this section, that was not an option. Instead, I had to patiently lure the demons away from the center pillar, in hopes of finding ammunition there. Luckily, there was. Cell packs and rocket boxes at the edges of the circle would've really helped me enjoy that section way more than I did. In fact, mainly because of that reason (and the overdependence on the flesh textures), I really felt like the final two arenas were of considerably lower quality than the first half of the wad. 14. Speaking of the final arena, it's too big for it's own good. I once heard someone use the term "Nuts wanabe", which I think kinda fits that area. I also heard someone say "No monster is scary if the room is big enough", which I think fits that section 100%. Once I finally reached the center pillar, there were some invulnerabilities there. But I didn't need them! I needed rockets! I had more than enough space to just safely circle strafe around them, which again, isn't really that fun, or engaging. 15. Speaking of rockets, you REALLY need to provide more rockets, especially when entering the final two areas. Technical things: Reveal hidden contents 1. All of your doors have this issue: you need to set the lines at the edges of the doors to "Lower unpegged". Try it, you'll like the difference. 2. Some monsters (especially the imps at the start of the flesh section) should probably be set to AMBUSH. This'll prevent them from calmly walking towards the door, where the player can easily spam them with rockets. 3. Some doors require keys, but that information is not accurately brought across. There are textures in the "Doors" section which can be placed besides doors, to indicate the need for a specific key. You actually did use those textures for the space that required the 3 keys. But the red key door in the metal section wasn't properly signaled. 4. Some textures are not properly aligned. There's an ALIGN tool in Doom builder, which can help you align them in bulk. The keyboard shortcut is "A" while in the 3D view. Regular A algins the textures horizontally, shift + A alings the textures vertically. 5. In the flesh section, you have some switches which use the closed eye texture, and open once pressed. You are allowed to do this, but the expected standard is the that the eye starts open, and once pressed, closes. 6. The lift to exit the blood pit in the second to last section is way, WAY too slow. And the pit is way too big. 7. The door space in the final pillar isn't marked. I only found it after laboriously tapping "use" on every inch of the pillar. 8. The elevator in the final area is also way too slow. 9. I apologize if this comes across as mean. I really don't mean any disrespect. It's about your english. Let me preface by saying I'm not a native english speaker myself, so I know what it's like to not have the words ready in your mind when you need them. This is mainly about the final text. It's perfectly fine if the english isn't perfect, but that text in particular really seemed to not have had much effort put into it, which is a shame, because the level has clearly had A LOT effort put into it. Now, even despite the fact that the grammar isn't perfect, you could've done a closer revision of the orthography. I remember the word "Destoryed". For orthographical corections, you can use text editors, like Office Word. Google translate can also get the job done. Both of these would also help you correct the text's grammar. Thanks For Advice, dude. I'll Keep this in my head. :):):):):) and talk about english, well.... uh... yeah, I'm not good at english. 0 Share this post Link to post
Deleted Account Posted February 2, 2022 Awesome level good slaughter, the progression is kinda confusing though, 8.5/10 Im an HR fan so this slaughter is good stuff to me 0 Share this post Link to post
NoOne Posted February 2, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, LadyMistDragon said: what port was this tested in? Rotterdam? :D In all seriousness, @michealrockshim an information header about the map details will please people greatly, helping them know what to expect, and which sourceports the map will work on. gl hf 0 Share this post Link to post
Doomdude89 Posted February 5, 2022 Good effort. The Yellow key positioning could be improved and i would cut few Archfiends once you get the yellow key. Kinda too spammy with them for my taste. The last room was cool but i would put the ammo outside the room edges cause i finally got to them when i had almost cleared the room already lol. 0 Share this post Link to post
Degree23 Posted February 5, 2022 On 2/2/2022 at 6:45 AM, PeceMan said: Reveal hidden contents Hide contents 6. Slaughter (especially the heavy kind) really isn't that popular in the community. Just letting you know. What's that got to do with anything? Aside from needing to make a couple of screenshots show some actual monster density, what is or isn't perceived as being popular shouldn't stop anyone making whatever kind of map they like. (He did also state it was slaughter in the original post) Other than what's already been mentioned, the other thing I noticed is that the doors that you needed keys for weren't marked as needing them, so I didn't even notice what I was picking up the keys for until I looked closer at the minimap. 0 Share this post Link to post
PeceMan Posted February 5, 2022 (edited) Went back into it. Spoiler As I said, I enjoyed it, very very much. That's why I went back. (The items I missed for 100% completion were a soulsphere, a megasphere, and some invulnerabilities I ended up not needing.) This time, I was way more careful with ammunition. I knew what to expect everywhere, so I was able to ration my ammo more carefully. Also, this time I used WAY more infighting. I still stand by pretty much everything I said the first time. Even though this time I had more than enough ammunition, the first time I would've really appreciated some Ammo Pickups in the last two areas. The map appears to have been playtested by someone who already knew the map, and knew what to expect, and how to act. That's why the second time, once I knew what to do, I had a way easier time. While any ammount of playtesting is better than no playtesting, I highly recommend getting other people to playtest your map. Not only can they provide a different perspective, they can also show you how different playstyles go over your level. As you saw, I ran out of ammunition for the second part, while someone else complained that you gave too much ammunition (which just goes to show how impossible it is to please everyone). About the 1 hour ago, Degree23 said: What's that got to do with anything? Aside from needing to make a couple of screenshots show some actual monster density, what is or isn't perceived as being popular shouldn't stop anyone making whatever kind of map they like. (He did also state it was slaughter in the original post) I apologize if I came across as enforcing a different mapping style. My intentions were simply to warn him that some people would NOPE right out of this one, simply for the fact that it is a slaughter. It was just aimed to be an emptions oriented forewarding, so that if anyone NOPEd right out of this one, he didn't feel dissapointed. Even though slaughter isn't for everyone, it definitely is for me. As I said, I really enjoyed it. That's why I went back to play it again. In fact, I might even play it a third time, some other day. 0 Share this post Link to post
hakros Posted February 5, 2022 Hi, @michealrockshim i've played the level and it is great, congratulations for your first map and thanks for share it !! I will include it in my app at next release.. :-D !! 0 Share this post Link to post
Delisk Posted February 5, 2022 Not to be a killjoy... but I have a felling you do not have the right to distribute this song in your wad. This is why midi are still preferred. 0 Share this post Link to post
ryiron Posted February 6, 2022 I gave this a play. This is semi-blind since I had a couple of dumb deaths. I got about 600 kills into the map before getting cornered and running out of BFG ammo. The architecture in the map is great. The opening area in particular looks really cool (though you need to lower unpeg the door tracks). I like the short, casual combat before the slaughter starts. For the parts of the map I played, I found the combat mostly on the easy side. The fights can mostly be won either by circle strafing, or door camping. The fights start to get a bit samey too: wave of imps, wave of reventants/hell nobles, wave of imps, wave of revenants, wave of hell nobles, etc... The geometry of the arenas doesn't change enough to keep the fights feeling interesting. There's also way too much ammo, and health bonuses, so I never really felt under any pressure. The architecture also got a bit less interesting in the area I died in. The entrance is cool, with the flesh blending into the metal. But then everything is just pink and one light level. The arena with the intestine columns is much less visually interesting than the opening area and central hub. I got unlucky and died due to picking the wrong way to run when some enemies spawned in and got stuck in a narrow corridor. It feels like this map probably takes at least an hour to beat, which is a bit more than I have the patience for :-). Hopefully I don't sound overly negative. I did have fun playing this, but more mindlessly blasting demons than challenging gameplay (which is still a fine type of map to make). There's definitely some good ideas and design in here, just a bit on the lengthy side, and low on the challenge side. 0 Share this post Link to post
michealrockshim Posted February 6, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, ryiron said: I gave this a play. This is semi-blind since I had a couple of dumb deaths. I got about 600 kills into the map before getting cornered and running out of BFG ammo. The architecture in the map is great. The opening area in particular looks really cool (though you need to lower unpeg the door tracks). I like the short, casual combat before the slaughter starts. For the parts of the map I played, I found the combat mostly on the easy side. The fights can mostly be won either by circle strafing, or door camping. The fights start to get a bit samey too: wave of imps, wave of reventants/hell nobles, wave of imps, wave of revenants, wave of hell nobles, etc... The geometry of the arenas doesn't change enough to keep the fights feeling interesting. There's also way too much ammo, and health bonuses, so I never really felt under any pressure. The architecture also got a bit less interesting in the area I died in. The entrance is cool, with the flesh blending into the metal. But then everything is just pink and one light level. The arena with the intestine columns is much less visually interesting than the opening area and central hub. I got unlucky and died due to picking the wrong way to run when some enemies spawned in and got stuck in a narrow corridor. It feels like this map probably takes at least an hour to beat, which is a bit more than I have the patience for :-). Hopefully I don't sound overly negative. I did have fun playing this, but more mindlessly blasting demons than challenging gameplay (which is still a fine type of map to make). There's definitely some good ideas and design in here, just a bit on the lengthy side, and low on the challenge side. Oh man... I shouldn't have spam the barrons. 1 Share this post Link to post
michealrockshim Posted February 6, 2022 15 hours ago, hakros said: Hi, @michealrockshim i've played the level and it is great, congratulations for your first map and thanks for share it !! I will include it in my app at next release.. :-D !! Oh, Thank you! :):):):):):) 0 Share this post Link to post
YeOldeFellerNoob Posted February 6, 2022 Pretty cool level. I am not very good at slaughter maps, so I did spam the resurrect cheat a lot, but other than that it was awesome. Though, you should change the song. I have a pretty heavy feeling it is copyrighted, and you could get in legal trouble. 0 Share this post Link to post
michealrockshim Posted February 6, 2022 1 hour ago, ✯𝔉𝔢𝔩𝔩𝔬𝔴𝔑𝔬𝔬𝔟✯ said: Pretty cool level. I am not very good at slaughter maps, so I did spam the resurrect cheat a lot, but other than that it was awesome. Though, you should change the song. I have a pretty heavy feeling it is copyrighted, and you could get in legal trouble. Yeah, You are right. I did a illegal thing. So I trying to learn how use midi stuff. If I have a original music, Should I change the BGM in my wad right now? 0 Share this post Link to post
