Hell Revealations [Final 2024 Release - /idgames] (Vanilla Megawad, 33 Deathmatch Arenas, Hell Revealed I + II Successor)

[Cutman 999]

Ok, just by that info pack exe i'm somewhat impressed, congrats for the release!

[Spie812]

I feel like the Hell Revealed style is such a rare school of map these days. This looks like exactly the kind of thing that I was secretly hoping for.

 

Okay, this has a Resistance is Futile tribute. I'm sold.

[bioshockfan90]

Holy shit, just finished MAP02 on HNTR. This is leagues beyond most HNTR-balanced WADs, even harder than its spiritual predecessors. But, that being said... I feel like this is a nice, up-to-date implementation of what HR probably felt like to most players back in the 90s. 

 

The Dehacked changes are great, berserk feels fantastic to use and in MAP02 I felt like a badass punching out archies and revs easily. I am using saves (something I don't usually do, but I have a feeling for this one it is necessary for someone of my skill level). Really fun stuff so far, I dig it a lot. 

 

Just commenting to say I have played a bit of it and from what little I have played, it's fantastic! Can't wait to get annihilated on later maps. >:)

[bioshockfan90]

Update with a small bug report:

 

In map07, the fight where arachnos and revenants (and probably some other stuff) teleport into the starting area I do not think triggers properly. I grabbed the plasma gun from the platforming section, and came back and nothing was different. I then went back over to the platforming area, landed in one of the Mancubus cages and for some reason when I came back for the second time everything teleported in. Also, the exit lift didn't seem to raise until after I got the secret BFG or something, point is it wasn't raised until I roamed around the map for a while. I think maybe not grabbing the berserk pack until near the end could've done it to me as well? I dunno, lots of weird triggers in this map.

 

GZDoom, BTW. Not sure if this happens in other ports.

 

Anyway, fun stuff so far. Loved the BFG arena in 06, I do think the opening is a bit hot and luck-dependent but I'll probably get a million replies saying if you're good enough it isn't, but it is what it is. Take this slaughter newb's opinion with a grain of salt. Solid stuff, guys!

[Arsinikk]

19 minutes ago, bioshockfan90 said:

Update with a small bug report:

 

In map07, the fight where arachnos and revenants (and probably some other stuff) teleport into the starting area I do not think triggers properly. I grabbed the plasma gun from the platforming section, and came back and nothing was different. I then went back over to the platforming area, landed in one of the Mancubus cages and for some reason when I came back for the second time everything teleported in. Also, the exit lift didn't seem to raise until after I got the secret BFG or something, point is it wasn't raised until I roamed around the map for a while. I think maybe not grabbing the berserk pack until near the end could've done it to me as well? I dunno, lots of weird triggers in this map.

Are you sure that it's not just map07 triggers like in Dead Simple? An ambush does happen, but only when all the mancubi are dead. Same with the step that raises to the exit only happens when all arachnotrons are dead.

[bioshockfan90]

2 minutes ago, Arsinikk said:

Are you sure that it's not just map07 triggers like in Dead Simple? An ambush does happen, but only when all the mancubi are dead. Same with the step that raises to the exit only happens when all arachnotrons are dead.

D'oh! My brain has been rewired to deny the fact that MAP07 triggers exist, that was probably it. I coulda sworn I killed all the mancubi but then again I could be wrong. I think it's because of all the different areas the arachs can get to that I got turned around. Had I remembered it was an 07 slot, I probably would've paid more attention to the mancs and arachnos.

 

Apologies for the false report.

[Arsinikk]

4 minutes ago, bioshockfan90 said:

 Apologies for the false report.

No worries, TBF map07 is not exactly your typical dead simple map, so it could be easy to forget about such triggers. The good thing though is a that even if you got confused about some of the triggers while playing, you at least we're able to get to the exit either way. :)

 

Also don't feel bad about false bug reporting. We encourage people to bring up any potential bug and issue, so that we can make the release as good as possible. It's much better to get a false bug report than to not get a report at all, and have that bug in the final release. After all, it's currently only a release candidate.

[bioshockfan90]

On MAP10 now. The only complaint balancing-wise, at least on HNTR, is that you're not given enough ammo to kill the blocker grey enemies in MAP08, at least in a fun manner. I ran out of rockets essentially killing all the regular monsters and evil-eyes, and had to use up all my cells to take care of the AVs in the post-RK ambush (leaving me with just shells). It could just be a matter of ammo saving, maybe add a SSG on easy at the least? That way, you're not stuck with the pump-action. 

 

Other than that, everything's been fine. I'm a little torn at the placement of MAP02 so early on, but perhaps it's best to have a really challenging map right off the bat to let you know what the WAD has in store before settling down for a few maps. Plus, it's nice having breather maps for pacing reasons. 

 

EDIT: My apologies, there appears to be one as a secret. I'd still suggest adding it in plain sight.

 

 

Edited October 6, 2023 by bioshockfan90

[Arsinikk]

7 hours ago, bioshockfan90 said:

On MAP10 now. The only complaint balancing-wise, at least on HNTR, is that you're not given enough ammo to kill the blocker grey enemies in MAP08, at least in a fun manner. I ran out of rockets essentially killing all the regular monsters and evil-eyes, and had to use up all my cells to take care of the AVs in the post-RK ambush (leaving me with just shells). It could just be a matter of ammo saving, maybe add a SSG on easy at the least? That way, you're not stuck with the pump-action. 

Isn't there a berserk on map08?

 

That should basically make it really easy to deal with the barons of stone (grey enemies).

[Firedust]

Berserk is so broken here, I love it. Made it to The Path. Holy f it's massive.

[Master O]

@Arsinikk

 

 

 

[bioshockfan90]

Just an update that I'm still playing through this. I went through and checked all the levels by IDCLEVing to them in GZDoom, and noticed that a few of them (and the one that I'm currently on, 14) lag due to high monstercount. I figure it's not a geometry issue seeing as this is aiming for Vanilla compat, so I downloaded the Slaughter Map Perfomance Boost mod on the ZDoom forums and it seems to have alleviated most of the lag. 

 

I really have nothing to report, MAP12 I somehow beat without saves, MAP13 was probably the most mean-spirited of the set so far but still doable if you know what route to take. MAP14 I barely sunk my teeth into so that'll have to wait. I'm not a huge slaughter guy but I always did like HR for being this old-school slaughter, something that I noticed when I played D2ISO for the DWMC last month with some of the maps in that. So the fact that it lives up to this ethos of nothing requiring intense knowledge of game mechanics and moreso just having fun blasting away enemies in hordes is always pretty nice. 

 

I don't expect to beat this for a while, especially because my 23rd birthday is in less than a week and I'll be softmodding and HDD upgrading my original Xbox that weekend as a treat to myself, but I do plan on picking it up more full-time once I get my kicks out of the Xbox project. Not to mention I haven't been able to play in the past 2 days as I was working on a video editing thing but that's all done now thankfully.

 

Wish this had more eyes on it, kinda weird that the thread's been dormant as long as it has despite this being a kickass megaWAD. Anyway, until next time! Judging by how well these maps are constructed, I doubt I'll run into any softlocks as far as the casual eye goes for the remainder of my playthrough. If you're reading this and you're following the thread - DO NOT MISS OUT ON THIS ONE. The map authors need help with bugs and balancing issues as well, and I can only do so much as a casual Doom WAD player, so I imagine the team would like it if more people popped in with errors. 

 

That's all folks!

[spineapple tea]

6 hours ago, bioshockfan90 said:

MAP13 was probably the most mean-spirited of the set so far but still doable if you know what route to take.

I'll have you know I'm absolutely taking this as a compliment.

[bioshockfan90]

1 hour ago, spineapple tea said:

I'll have you know I'm absolutely taking this as a compliment.

 

Good! I enjoyed the map don't get me wrong, I just did things in a somewhat unorthodox manner:

Spoiler

Saved the main arena for the very end. Did final fight way earlier and just stayed in the BFG 'quadrant' of the map for most of it. Still got 100% kills tho!

 

[Firedust]

I think there are a few broken teleporter closets in ID IV: https://prnt.sc/xJEHc3XKsVy2

 

Couldn't get these pinkies to teleport in, although I did find every secret in the map.

 

Also I couldn't for the life of me figure out how to access the secret exit in map 31 and get full kills despite opening the map in the editor lmao (I am no mapper btw)

 

Phenomenal stuff so far btw.

EDIT: Forgot to mention: Playing in GZDoom 4.10.0, on HR difficulty.

[Arsinikk]

57 minutes ago, Firedust said:

I think there are a few broken teleporter closets in ID IV: https://prnt.sc/xJEHc3XKsVy2

 
Couldn't get these pinkies to teleport in, although I did find every secret in the map.

So technically they aren't broken, but I will admit they are kinda weird... basically those pinkies only teleport in when you walk in either the north east or south west part of that arena with the AVs in the middle near the exit. basically there are lines that open doors temporarily in the monster closet for the pinkies to come out, but the doors close after a while.

 

58 minutes ago, Firedust said:

 Also I couldn't for the life of me figure out how to access the secret exit in map 31 and get full kills despite opening the map in the editor lmao (I am no mapper btw)

I assume that you found all the secret messages? Basically in the centre of the map, a switch reveals itself on a blue pillar once all the secret messages are discovered.

 

59 minutes ago, Firedust said:

EDIT: Forgot to mention: Playing in GZDoom 4.10.0, on HR difficulty.

It's cool that you are testing the megawad in GZDoom! just a note, MAP30 is supposed to use ghost monsters, but I'm skeptical whether it'll work in GZDoom right. may require switching compatibility settings to Vanilla... but it may work correctly outside the box. Let me know when you get there plz :)

I am however working on a solution for old ZDoom ports to have ghost monsters on MAP30.

[Firedust]

2 hours ago, Arsinikk said:

So technically they aren't broken, but I will admit they are kinda weird... basically those pinkies only teleport in when you walk in either the north east or south west part of that arena with the AVs in the middle near the exit. basically there are lines that open doors temporarily in the monster closet for the pinkies to come out, but the doors close after a while.

 

I assume that you found all the secret messages? Basically in the centre of the map, a switch reveals itself on a blue pillar once all the secret messages are discovered.

 

It's cool that you are testing the megawad in GZDoom! just a note, MAP30 is supposed to use ghost monsters, but I'm skeptical whether it'll work in GZDoom right. may require switching compatibility settings to Vanilla... but it may work correctly outside the box. Let me know when you get there plz :)

Regarding ID IV: Ah, that makes sense. Not sure if this is a good idea, why set a timer there in the first place? Was a bit frustrating not to be able to UV Max that one because I actually found all the secrets without looking them up, thought I did very well!

Regarding map 31: I did find some of the secret messages, but I am guessing not all of them. I don't need to interact with them, do I? Still weird that I was missing around 200 monsters... I did find the secret ring-like structure in the lava area, mind. In fact, I got all secrets but one, being the secret exit itself.

Does the teleporter by the exit switch require an AV jump btw? That's how I accessed it anyway because there didn't seem to be a switch to raise or lower anything.

Will report on how everything goes in map 30, but it's gonna be a while before I get there ahaha
These maps are getting chonky.

Edited October 11, 2023 by Firedust

[RiviTheWarlock]

I'm happy to have worked on this project. Arsinikk always runs a tight ship and has helped me tremendously in actually getting vanilla maps to work. The content here is pretty fun despite me not being a huge fan of the Hell Revealed series. 

[Arsinikk]

17 hours ago, Firedust said:

Regarding ID IV: Ah, that makes sense. Not sure if this is a good idea, why set a timer there in the first place? Was a bit frustrating not to be able to UV Max that one because I actually found all the secrets without looking them up, thought I did very well!

I made the suggestion to have the monster closet doors permanently open after the fight, as once the fight is over, the temporary doors don't really make sense imo. I agree with you that it's unnecessarily a confusing setup to get UV-max. However it's kind of up to the mapper if they want to address it or not.

 

17 hours ago, Firedust said:

Regarding map 31: I did find some of the secret messages, but I am guessing not all of them. I don't need to interact with them, do I? Still weird that I was missing around 200 monsters... I did find the secret ring-like structure in the lava area, mind. In fact, I got all secrets but one, being the secret exit itself.

You do not need to interact with the secret messages. You just need to reveal them. You should be missing 1 secret as that is what you get after the final fight. The final fight is triggered via a switch that reveals itself on a blue pillar after all the messages have been found. Basically opposite of the switch you press to start the descent fight sequence near the start.

 

17 hours ago, Firedust said:

Does the teleporter by the exit switch require an AV jump btw? That's how I accessed it anyway because there didn't seem to be a switch to raise or lower anything.

I assume you are talking about the secret teleport behind the techwall and the normal exit switch. You do not need an AV jump to reach that. There is a thin amount of space to the left of the switch that you can edge along to reach the teleport.

[damo]

Its currently hosted on ZDaemon now. Thanks to @Flambeau

 

Malibu EU #07 - Hell Revealations RC1

zds://141.94.27.13:10607

Edited October 11, 2023 by damo

[Firedust]

Made it to map 25, will take on the behemoth likely tomorrow.

 

A few thoughts on a couple maps:

Map 19: Really good map, but there were two things that bugged me a bit.

1. Why is the best fight of the map a secret fight? And what is the reward of that fight other than more monsters to kill and cells?
2. Some monsters are perched up in areas where it's really hard to hit them, like the mancubi by the second cyb teleporter in the blue key area. Very annoying to hit!

 

Map 24: This map is so much harder than everything that came before lmao

You get a BFG early and think it'll all be smooth sailing but then you open the door and a whole crowd of archies greets you. Ironically, the final fight is actually the easiest because you can just wait for the walls to lower and the incoming monsters to piss off the cybs and do the good work for you. Just make sure you dodge the caged ones.

[Arsinikk]

10 minutes ago, Firedust said:

Map 19: Really good map, but there were two things that bugged me a bit.

1. Why is the best fight of the map a secret fight? And what is the reward of that fight other than more monsters to kill and cells?
2. Some monsters are perched up in areas where it's really hard to hit them, like the mancubi by the second cyb teleporter in the blue key area. Very annoying to hit!

We are already addressing this map specifically. The super high mancubi have been removed. In general, the map has had minor tweaks to be more UV-max accessible. These tweaks will be coming in RC2. By the best fight, do you mean the deathmatch-like area? Because that fight was added kind of as a bonus since it was not in the initial version of the map.

 

13 minutes ago, Firedust said:

Map 24: This map is so much harder than everything that came before lmao

You get a BFG early and think it'll all be smooth sailing but then you open the door and a whole crowd of archies greets you. Ironically, the final fight is actually the easiest because you can just wait for the walls to lower and the incoming monsters to piss off the cybs and do the good work for you. Just make sure you dodge the caged ones.

I'm little surprised you found this map more difficult from the ones before. Our testers found this map to be about medium difficulty. Just checking that in the beginning, you can use the cyber to kill all the AVs for you... I'm not that much of a monster to require you to kill all AVs yourself at that part. I will admit the sniper AV / cyber wall fight can be pretty tricky.

[Firedust]

4 minutes ago, Arsinikk said:

We are already addressing this map specifically. The super high mancubi have been removed. In general, the map has had minor tweaks to be more UV-max accessible. These tweaks will be coming in RC2. By the best fight, do you mean the deathmatch-like area? Because that fight was added kind of as a bonus since it was not in the initial version of the map.

Yes, that's exactly the fight I am talking about. I think the main issue is that it becomes accessible super late and by then, you've already got all the weapons you desire.

5 minutes ago, Arsinikk said:

I'm little surprised you found this map more difficult from the ones before. Our testers found this map to be about medium difficulty. Just checking that in the beginning, you can use the cyber to kill all the AVs for you... I'm not that much of a monster to require you to kill all AVs yourself at that part. I will admit the sniper AV / cyber wall fight can be pretty tricky.

The problem is that the archies can leave the room and there's zero chance the cyb pisses off even half of them. And once they start running out you have to be very quick at dispatching them or you're toast. Maybe I had bad RNG haha
The wall is quite tricky too. Luckily everything that comes after is MUCH easier imo. The imp / archie fight isn't particularly difficult because the fiery dudes infight with the imps all the time.

[Arsinikk]

12 minutes ago, Firedust said:

Yes, that's exactly the fight I am talking about. I think the main issue is that it becomes accessible super late and by then, you've already got all the weapons you desire.

Well tbf, NinjaDelphox didn't want that fight to interfere with the main map progression. Getting to that fight earlier would ruin the progression. Being an extra bonus area with enemies to kill and extra ammo was it's main purpose.

 

12 minutes ago, Firedust said:

The problem is that the archies can leave the room and there's zero chance the cyb pisses off even half of them. And once they start running out you have to be very quick at dispatching them or you're toast. Maybe I had bad RNG haha

I'm not sure what you mean... Here's how I play that fight (footage of continuous play for the trailer). I don't see how it could be difficult at all. Just don't fire until they've all been hit by the Cyberdemon.

 

[Firedust]

oh lmao I am an idiot!

 

I fired at the archies right away without realising they were never facing me in the first place. I am so sorry hahaha

[NinjaDelphox]

26 minutes ago, Firedust said:

Yes, that's exactly the fight I am talking about. I think the main issue is that it becomes accessible super late and by then, you've already got all the weapons you desire.

You can get the red key first and do it right away, or just get the red key after the yellow key, so it can realistically be done at anytime.

[Firedust]

Beat map 25. Here are a few things you may or may not consider addressing:

1. The monsters in here are deaf: https://prnt.sc/12K5JJd5t3M_, and you can't stand far back enough to activate them all - especially you have to get lucky with your splash damage and viles, meaning you might miss out on 100% kills.

 

2. Blue key area. You can actually shoot both eye switches with the ssg. The second one can be shot from here: https://prnt.sc/iOBoVJeNrGc2. I got softlocked because for whatever dumb reason, I thought that was the intended method and did the northern building only after the southern one. When I crossed the invisible bridge and hopped onto the lift, I discovered that there was no way for me out. Maybe I'm dumb and I couldn't figure it out.

 

3. Sequence before the final fight. Once I pressed the three key switches, I thought the map was broken. Would be nice if you signposted a path towards the building with the megasphere fountain because that was definitely not intuitive - for me anyway.

 

Fun map, def hard to UV max in one sitting, but very much doable in smaller doses! I had a blast with it!

Edited October 12, 2023 by Firedust

[Arsinikk]

4 hours ago, Firedust said:

1. The monsters in here are deaf: https://prnt.sc/12K5JJd5t3M_, and you can't stand far back enough to activate them all - especially you have to get lucky with your splash damage and viles, meaning you might miss out on 100% kills.

I don't quite understand the problem. In my testing you can hit all of the enemies even when far in the back, but also they wake up immediately when the player walks in front of them. I never ran into an issue where I couldn't kill an enemy here nor have I ever had the enemies fall back asleep. You can definitely hitscan them, if rockets don't hit them.

 

4 hours ago, Firedust said:

2. Blue key area. You can actually shoot both eye switches with the ssg. The second one can be shot from here: https://prnt.sc/iOBoVJeNrGc2. I got softlocked because for whatever dumb reason, I thought that was the intended method and did the northern building only after the southern one. When I crossed the invisible bridge and hopped onto the lift, I discovered that there was no way for me out. Maybe I'm dumb and I couldn't figure it out.

It is known and sorta intentional that you can hit the switches out of order with the SSG. While it isn't the intended method of progressing the section, it was known that that using the SSG could "break" sequence (even know it doesn't really break it).

 

You are not supposed to be able to open the door from the south side (next to the lift). The way out of that area is to hit the switch to the left of the lift and it opens a door to the southwest of the room. If you have already triggered the raised platforms by grabbing the blue key, you can just press on the metal rivet textures and they will lower allowing you to walk out the southwest exit.

 

4 hours ago, Firedust said:

3. Sequence before the final fight. Once I pressed the three key switches, I thought the map was broken. Would be nice if you signposted a path towards the building with the megasphere fountain because that was definitely not intuitive - for me anyway.

I think you may be thinking in how switches work in Boom. In vanilla, key switches only can open doors, and so I set the middle switches to open the bars in the room near the start of the map.

 

Unfortunately, I don't really know if I can do much regarding signposting as this map pushes Vanilla VPOs and drawsegs to their limits, especially when the hedges lower. I can't really add much more geometry to the map without Vanilla dying... I'll admit that I spent weeks trying to get the outside of that map under Vanilla limits.

 

I would say that I'm happy that if you just keep looking around the map more, you'd eventually find the exit room.

 

4 hours ago, Firedust said:

Fun map, def hard to UV max in one sitting, but very much doable in smaller doses! I had a blast with it!

Glad you had fun with it. It was basically a community project inside a community project so I makes sense it would be pretty large. Hope you enjoyed the 666 revenant horde I sent after you at the end ;)

 

Also really appreciate your feedback. It will really help make this megawad better :)

[Firedust]

22 minutes ago, Arsinikk said:

I don't quite understand the problem. In my testing you can hit all of the enemies even when far in the back, but also they wake up immediately when the player walks in front of them.

Maybe I'm stupid but because there's the warehouse building right behind you, it's impossible to walk far back enough for the monsters at the back to see you. I didn't use a hitscan weapon, admittedly.

 

23 minutes ago, Arsinikk said:

You are not supposed to be able to open the door from the south side (next to the lift). The way out of that area is to hit the switch to the left of the lift and it opens a door to the southwest of the room. If you have already triggered the raised platforms by grabbing the blue key, you can just press on the metal rivet textures and they will lower allowing you to walk out the southwest exit.

Okay, I def didn't try pressing the metal rivet textures, that wasn't obvious, to me anyway :(

Also, TIL that in vanilla key switches can't even work in tandem to unlock stuff. Only separetely. And I've been playing Doom wads for over a decade. Damn.
Thanks for your replies!

 

I will likely wrap up the main wad tomorrow. Stuck on map 28 rn, because lmao

[Blue Phoenix]

6 hours ago, Firedust said:

Also, TIL that in vanilla key switches can't even work in tandem to unlock stuff. Only separetely. And I've been playing Doom wads for over a decade. Damn.

 

You "can" but it requires a bit of trickery.  In my map for Jamal Jones (e1m17) I have a wall lower after pulling 2 key switches on it.