Risen3D Sunk

[Amaster]

insertwackynamehere said:

Finally, ignoring all the legal crap, I think it's stupid that this is STILL an issue, seeing as how the stupid GPL arguments are what got us into this mess anyway.

Ignoring all the "legal crap", you have one or more people who were extremely disrespectful to the original authors of doomsday. This mess was brought upon the Risen3D team by their own doing.

[insertwackynamehere]

fine, whatever. go ahead and keep bitching that there are levels that can never be played. its not my problem. I'm just pointing out that IF someone wanted to play the levels, then there ARE binaries available. It isn't like the whole thing is completly gone. But make it yet another legal issue. I don't really care, it's not my problem. By saying the levels can't be played because of licensing issues, is like being trapped in the desert and finding a jeep with the keys but refusing to ride it out because you don't have the papers. Fine, if you want to be technical, ignore the Jeep, but don't say there wasnt a way of getting out when you find yourself stranded.

[Linguica]

Quasar said:

Have you even read the GNU Manifesto? Probably not.

OH DAMN SON HE CLOWNED YOU! ARE YOU GOING TO TAKE THAT SHIT?!

[insertwackynamehere]

Linguica said:

OH DAMN SON HE CLOWNED YOU! ARE YOU GOING TO TAKE THAT SHIT?!

I haven't read the GNU manifesto. Sorry. I have better things to do than get wrapped up in legal issues with a fucking license designed to get RID of legal issues. DAMMIT you people dont seem to get it! GNU was made to be the anti-EULA! EULA are complex and stupid license agreements! Your road may be paved with good intentions but you are turning into what you hate.

[Sharessa]

wacky: no one is arguing with you on the binaries issue. It's just all the other retarded things that you said.

[LexiMax]

Quasar said:

Of course this is going to upset them, and get them to spend a couple million on anti-GNU propaganda.

Not that I'm defending wacky here, because I have enough of a migrane as it is, but what millions of dollars on what campaigns specificly targed at the Free Software Foundation? Yeah, there is some snide stuff and 'studies' done that are aimed towards Linux, but Linux is a direct competator in their operating system business, so of COURSE they're going to be spreading nonsense. And other big monolithic companies are embracing the very philosophy you say is so poisonous to such big corperations. Don't kid yourself, IBM and Novell were just as much in love with proprietary things as Microsoft is, their embracing of Linux is purely a business decision, and once Linux fails to serve their purposes they will drop it like a rock.

I mean, I like the GPL as much as anyone, but COME ON...

Linguica said:

OH DAMN SON HE CLOWNED YOU! ARE YOU GOING TO TAKE THAT SHIT?!

Oh man, you sure are showing those GNU hippies with your ironic sarcasm.

[insertwackynamehere]

Danarchy said:

wacky: no one is arguing with you on the binaries issue. It's just all the other retarded things that you said.

ok like what? maybe the license thing was a bit off, but honestly if no one wants the source then why should it matter?

[Bloodshedder]

insertwackynamehere said:

fine, whatever. go ahead and keep bitching that there are levels that can never be played. its not my problem. I'm just pointing out that IF someone wanted to play the levels, then there ARE binaries available. It isn't like the whole thing is completly gone.

ONE PERSON in this thread made a remark regarding this. I don't think anyone is dumb enough to believe that all Risen3D Wads will be completely unplayable, because all binary copies cannot have been eradicated. Any schmuck with a copy could go upload it somewhere. They'll still be violating the GPL, but because they aren't the developer, they will probably a) keep the distribution in the shadows and b) not get very much flak over distributing it anyway.

if no one wants the source then why should it matter?

The Doomsday team wanted the source. They had a right to it.

AlexMax said:

of COURSE they're going to be spreading nonsense

Browse through the search results for "site:microsoft.com GPL" and you'll see some of the nonsense.

[insertwackynamehere]

Bloodshedder said:

ONE PERSON in this thread made a remark regarding this. I don't think anyone is dumb enough to believe that all Risen3D Wads will be completely unplayable, because all binary copies cannot have been eradicated. Any schmuck with a copy could go upload it somewhere. They'll still be violating the GPL, but because they aren't the developer, they will probably a) keep the distribution in the shadows and b) not get very much flak over distributing it anyway.
The Doomsday team wanted the source. They had a right to it.

my point exactly.

and about everything else, its a shame that Risen3D died but I dont have any arguments. I'd rather they have just released the code, but I guess they chose the other direction. I'm not saying they should be exempt from releasing the code (though I think there should have been more patience maybe)

[Sharessa]

insertwackynamehere said:

ok like what? maybe the license thing was a bit off, but honestly if no one wants the source then why should it matter?

The 'liscence thing' was 90% of your post, plus it seems like PLENTY of people want the Risen3d source, namley all the source port developers that maybe want a little code to work around some of their problems. Most of the source ports out there have shared code with a couple other source port developers. Unless I'm horribly mistaken.

[insertwackynamehere]

Danarchy said:

The 'liscence thing' was 90% of your post, plus it seems like PLENTY of people want the Risen3d source, namley all the source port developers that maybe want a little code to work around some of their problems. Most of the source ports out there have shared code with a couple other source port developers. Unless I'm horribly mistaken.

I was talking about people who wanted to play the levels.

[Bloodshedder]

insertwackynamehere said:

my point exactly.

The point didn't need to be made, as it was quite obvious already.

[insertwackynamehere]

Bloodshedder said:

The point didn't need to be made, as it was quite obvious already.

Yeah but I felt the need to put it out there because it bothered me that someone would give up playing a wad just because of licensing issues. I mean thats just depressing. GPL is free! Maybe its not strict to code, but you arent stealing anything by downloading the damn binaries! I dunno it pissed me off.

[Sharessa]

insertwackynamehere said:

I was talking about people who wanted to play the levels.

Dude WTF. Just because people who want to play the levels don't need the source means it doesn't need to be released? I give up, I'm not arguing with you anymore. I think you come from some parallel universe where you make sense.

[insertwackynamehere]

Danarchy said:

Dude WTF. Just because people who want to play the levels don't need the source means it doesn't need to be released? I give up, I'm not arguing with you anymore. I think you come from some parallel universe where you make sense.

Legally, yes it needs to be released. Realistically it doesnt need to be. Wtf is so hard about this. I'm simply saying anyone who wants to play Risen3D levels can. Thats it!

[Csonicgo]

Bloodshedder said:

Browse through the search results for "site:microsoft.com GPL" and you'll see some of the nonsense.

Heh! Nonsense indeed!

Billy said:

Then you get to the issue of who is going to be the most innovative. You know, will it be capitalism, or will it be just people working at night? There's always been a free software world. And you should understand Microsoft thinks free software is a great thing. Software written in universities should be free software. But it shouldn't be GPL software. GPL software is like this thing called Linux, where you can never commercialize anything around it; that is, it always has to be free. And, you know, that's just a philosophy. Some said philosophy wasn't around much anymore, but it's still there. And so that's where we part company.

I wish I could say such intelligent sounding bullshit like Bill can!

This man calls the GPL "Viral". Funny, because That's what I call Windows!

[LexiMax]

vvv PRO CLICK ZONE vvv

PRESS ME TO SAVE YOUR OWN SANITY

^^^ PRO CLICK ZONE ^^^

EDIT: That works too...

[Sharessa]

insertwackynamehere said:

Legally, yes it needs to be released. Realistically it doesnt need to be. Wtf is so hard about this. I'm simply saying anyone who wants to play Risen3D levels can. Thats it!

I think you come from some parallel universe where you make sense.

[Quasar]

Let's not forget when MS went on a nation-wide tour of universities giving speeches on the threat of free software.

Let's also not forget the money they've been quietly channeling into the Linux lawsuits -- and not on the Linux side of things either.

And let's not forget those articles suggesting that free software could be exploited by terrorists. Or the vague suggestions that perhaps the writers of free software were themselves terrorists.

[darknation]

looks like someone out there cares about my mental state. thank you.

[Bastet Furry]

[offtopic]
Um, dear mods, whats that shit with insertwhackynamehere?
First the Layout is destroyed inside his posts and then he is put, without my consent, on my ignore list?

I am against his ignorance too, but i would just put him into fresh air for a week and not doing this mobbing.

Just my opinion you will surely ignore.
[/offtopic]

@quasar:
Heh, i just remeber that ad with the 3 penguins all having something different on them. *g*

Anybody got that one?

[Schneelocke]

Bastet Furry said:

First the Layout is destroyed inside his posts and then he is put, without my consent, on my ignore list?

If he is, then it's probably because you clicked on AlexMax's helpful little link above. :)

Anybody got that one?

http://downtime.templeofhate.com/~niehaus/muh-tation.jpg

[entryway]

What the fuck with insertwackynamehere here?

http://prboom-plus.sf.net/ie.png
http://prboom-plus.sf.net/opera.png

Stop his please.

EDIT: This guy has margin-right: 1600px in signature

<div style="width: 100%; display: block; float: left; margin-right: 1600px">
Unwanted and Largely Ignored Member <!--cyblocked--></div>

[darknation]

entryway said:

EDIT: This guy has margin-right: 1600px in signature

Think of cyblock as the local council flushing the dog turds into the gutter so you don't have to look at them.

[deathz0r]

Holy crap wacky. It's not the fact that you are wrong that I care about, it's the fact that you are stupidly persistant about it that pisses me off.

Having to scroll to read your posts thanks to Cyblock helped little.

[insertwackynamehere]

i guess I'm no longer cyblocked (I remember that happened to someone else way back)

instead I'm responsible for being "defencive."

for the record I dont really care anymore. Obviously everyone here has already won anyway, they got Risen3D to be removed so what am I arguing for anyway? I simply wanted to point out that one could still get the binaries if one wanted, ignoring the GPL. I'll bet a lot of you download music, but NEVER should download GPL binaries without source! That would be WRONG! But I give up, this convo is all yours, you already killed the project.

[Kaiser]

defencive?

[darknation]

I think it's a typo. He meant 'retarded'.

[TheDarkArchon]

insertwackynamehere said:

i guess I'm no longer cyblocked (I remember that happened to someone else way back)

instead I'm responsible for being "defencive."

for the record I dont really care anymore. Obviously everyone here has already won anyway, they got Risen3D to be removed so what am I arguing for anyway? I simply wanted to point out that one could still get the binaries if one wanted, ignoring the GPL. I'll bet a lot of you download music, but NEVER should download GPL binaries without source! That would be WRONG! But I give up, this convo is all yours, you already killed the project.

THE RISEN3D TEAM FUCKING KILLED IT THEM SELVES, NOT US. END OF GODDAMN STORY.

[insertwackynamehere]

Kaiser said:

defencive?

the typo is in my title. read it and you'll get the joke. i know it's "defensive"

also one last thing. I've said this before but here it is again.

I stated my views, like a lot of people in this thread. However, when people saw they were posted by me, they all start targeting what I said and made it an issue. If you want to disagree with something I said, that's fine. But the fact is, I know it isn't so much what I said but because I said it. In the news post ITSELF, Ling calls the people the GNU gestapo. I don't see him being questioned and harrassed for saying pretty much what I was getting at the whole time. My points were a) the binaries existed and could be downloaded if one was willing to ignore the GPL because they wanted to play old levels and b) a lot of people were becoming overly sensitive to the GNU issue. I do not think the Risen3D team should have been exempt from releasing the source. However, the way I see things, the GNU is supposed to create LESS legal problems for the end user than MORE. This does not appear to be the case in this situation, but that's my opinion. I'm acting defensive because I'm getting derided by people from all over. If you disagree that is FINE. I'm not trying to force what I believe onto you.

Also, I have been on these boards for over 3 or 4 years now. I generally just post regular stuff, back 2 years ago I did do stupid stuff, but okay lets look at this. Deathz0r destroyed NewDoom, now he's matured. BBG was, from what I hear, a huge spammer/douche but I don't see him doing that crap anymore. Same with a lot of other people who are now respected, a lot of them had a past which they now understand was kind of stupid. You can try to rationalize all you want, but I don't say anything that's anymore stupid than anyone else. I'm just targeted, everytime I post, out of predetermined anger.

I don't plan to leave because I don't have any reason to. This is an internet community which I enjoy because I enjoy the game it represents. However it bothers me that I can't just say things without an entire flamewar erupting. Just because people such as darknation perpetuate my alleged "stupidity" because of the way I acted here when I was like 14 or 15, it doesn't mean I'm still like that. Same with my old title. Darknation is a troll, every member will tell you that, and you don't feed trolls. I ignore dn, and if that's how he is, so what? He'll probably have some witty sophomoric response to this and it's just how he is. Everyone else meanwhile feeds into it because they accept it. I don't really care, I mean in the end it's just the internet. And that's what dn does, I'm not like a noob who can't handle being insulted by the guy who insults everyone. And no matter how dn replies to this, he does insult everyone and I'm not a special case, the only reason he focuses on me is not because I feed it but because everyone else does.

That's all I have to say.. once again this isn't an "I'm leaving! :(" message this is just stating my views.