US Soldiers shoot children in Iraq while laughing

[Snarboo]

I've been reading up more about this and I'm not sure what to think at this point. It's obvious a colossal fuck up, but I think I'm going to go with Coopersville and say this is something we may never fully understand. While my previous points still stand, I'm taking a bow from this point on since I can't come to an honest conclusion.

It's pretty obvious the gunner was inexperienced and shouldn't have been there, though.

[Maes]

Snarboo said:

I understand why the US military is being singled out given that this is about the US Military. I'm leaving this here for posterity since many of my points still stand.

You made some good points indeed, but the reason the US Military stands out is that it's one of the few (if not the only one) able to project that kind of military power so far away from its borders, especially for a country that has not experienced conventional warfare on its own ground or even near it for over 100 years. None else has so many bases scattered around the world. The UK? A few relics of when they still were an empire, and then again mostly for serving the US.

Russia? Yeah, they invaded Chechenya....which is just like the US invading Mexico or Panama: literally at their doorstep. China? Large conventional military, but no ability to project it outside their immediate bordering countries. Israel? Ultra-high tech and efficient, but low on manpower, and with a close-range all-out-defend doctrine and their own unique problems.

See, that's what makes the US Military seem "too bad": in the end, you see a bunch of grunts in a country that didn't attack them, not even bordering their own, doing target practice on civilian unpunished, for murky justifications at best. This just makes everything they do appear a hundred times worse, and most importantly, pointless but to the most fanatic, brainwashed, bible-thumping, bush-voting tool.

And yeah, the bit about being immune is sadly true: while the US State Department thought nothing of suggesting that e.g. Serbian "war criminals" should stand an international trial, they DO NOT recognize those courts themselves, thus implicitly negating the possibility than an US citizen could ever stand trial outside of the US by those courts. Nice.

[Snarboo]

See, I definitely agree with that. Our power is far reaching and we can invade a country in mere days if we have to. When you consider the Iraq war was held under false pretenses, it makes it even more alarming. Not to mention cases like this where innocents get involved, two of which happened to be reporters for Reuters.

That said, we do have our limits. From what I hear, this conflict is stretching our military pretty thin. If a real war were to spring up, it might take us a few weeks to respond in full. Hell, if the shit really hit the fan, I bet the draft would be reinstated.

[Gez]

Snarboo said:

That said, we do have our limits. From what I hear, this conflict is stretching our military pretty thin. If a real war were to spring up, it might take us a few weeks to respond in full. Hell, if the shit really hit the fan, I bet the draft would be reinstated.

The US Army is overstretched already, and everybody knows it. You'd have to go to full war-time mode -- with conscriptions, war bonds, and the likes, and who wants that? -- to open up a third front. Why do you think that countries such as Iran or North Korea are multiplying their provocations? They know they do not have to worry; as long as the USA still has its two arms stuck in these two monkey traps America is nothing but a paper tiger to them. You can roar, but you can't bite.

[SYS]

Maes said:

See, that's what makes the US Military seem "too bad": in the end, you see a bunch of grunts in a country that didn't attack them, not even bordering their own, doing target practice on civilian unpunished, for murky justifications at best. This just makes everything they do appear a hundred times worse, and most importantly, pointless but to the most fanatic, brainwashed, bible-thumping, bush-voting tool.

And yeah, the bit about being immune is sadly true: while the US State Department thought nothing of suggesting that e.g. Serbian "war criminals" should stand an international trial, they DO NOT recognize those courts themselves, thus implicitly negating the possibility than an US citizen could ever stand trial outside of the US by those courts. Nice.

Before they supposedly gave Blackwater the heave-ho, they could shoot all the civies they wanted without any repercussions at all. All for six figure salaries to boot. They had their own separate rulebook, and being independant of the US Military weren't subject to their accountability.

[dew]

Gez said:

They know they do not have to worry; as long as the USA still has its two arms stuck in these two monkey traps America is nothing but a paper tiger to them. You can roar, but you can't bite.

you can always sic israel on iran, they seem eager already.

[Mr. T]

dew said:

you can always sic israel on iran, they seem eager already.

Except for the fact that Israel's army is neither prepared nor capable for an offensive war against a real opponent (see how they couldn't even beat Lebanese guerrillas back in 2006?)...

...any "real" war involving Israel would only end in a nuclear holocaust for the entire world. Yay!

[Bank]

Mr. T said:

...any "real" war involving Israel would only end in a nuclear holocaust for the entire world. Yay!

And we (the US) would be footing the bill.

[Mr. T]

Bank said:

And we (the US) would be footing the bill.

You have been footing the bill for many, many years. Jewish lobby FTL

[Maes]

Anyone else notices a sick similarity between the events in the video and this ?

It wouldn't surprise me if the crew had seen it before and wanted to be just like it....

[deathbringer]

Mind you though, Iran and North Korea don't border the US and hardly have the ability to project thier firepower. NK might have a few creaky ships that US fighter bombers could sink as an afterthought on the way to something else and Iran has some old Tornados. Yay.

Now Canada, on the other hand...

[GreyGhost]

Gez said:

Why do you think that countries such as Iran or North Korea are multiplying their provocations? They know they do not have to worry; as long as the USA still has its two arms stuck in these two monkey traps America is nothing but a paper tiger to them.

Iran talks a good fight and I expect that's all they'll do, having previously been fought to a standstill by Iraq's much smaller army and finding themselves sandwiched between those monkey traps - I don't think they'd be too eager to start a shooting war. As for North Korea, most of it's recent bellicosity is thought to be for domestic consumption, part of Kim Jong-il's preparations for succession - which involves leaving no-one in doubt who's in charge.

[myk]

Aliotroph? said:
As far as I can tell, this happens with any army in any war and somehow everybody acts shocked.

"You say your sister got raped last night? LOL, big deal, bro... get over it, rape happens in any society!"

Excesses and atrocities can happen in any military force to some degree, but it happens much more consistently in forces that perpetrate opportunistic wars of aggression backed by bullshit causes. Mainly because such excesses are punished in wars where they aren't tolerated, under moral demands, or at least the troops generally perceive it that way.

If you look at the Iraq war in general, it's similar to the behavior displayed by the guys on that chopper. Why would the heads of state and high ranking military be eager to punish behavior in the ranks that somehow mimics theirs? They'll only feel safer having the troops sharing their filth. Here you see, in a small scale, what the attack on Iraq was in a large scale. They were essentially playing a video game on their targets, squishing ants with their thumbs. Perhaps the particular event can be considered somewhat hyperbolic, but, along with other hideousness such as Abu Ghraib, it's still representative in this "microcosmic" sense, considering the particular campaign. It's not coincidental. It's systematic.

I do wonder whether these guys were just stupid hicks or were actually sent to kill the reporters, though. Both seem plausible enough given the circumstances, or it could be a combination of the two.