Mo. Teenager Shot by Police, Riots Ensue

[dg93]

geo said:

*cough* bump. No one has any comments to the autopsy saying the bullet angles indicate he went for the gun?

I completely forgot about this thread lol I saw this article yesterday and things don't look too good for the Michael Brown supporters.... But then again, they will never be convinced that the cop acted out of self defense because in their imbecilic minds they will think that "it was a racist white cop gunning down some innocent black kid." I don't have the slightest sympathy for Michael Brown. Sorry if that sounds harsh, I just don't give two flying shits. Fuck the media.

[Doomkid]

Now that this has surfaced, it would be nice to have a play-by-play of what reportedly happened.

If he was reaching for a cops gun, unprovoked.. Why? A funny little joke? It would be dumb as all hell, but people are no strangers to being dumb. Its certainly a possibility that he was a thug being a thug. However, If he was reaching in defensive instinct - when a gun is pointed at you, logic sorta goes out the window, the primal brain takes control - I can't condemn him for that. I see either of these as equally possible given this new information.

Additionally, this does not excuse the police force for the way in which they reacted to the protests. They fueled a hot fire rather than dousing it. It also does not excuse the other murders of unarmed civilians that have been reported lately.

I'm curious to hear the final determination once it's made.

Edit: To me, race isn't really what matters here. The fact that he's black has certainly helped to sensationalize it though. If he was white, yellow or pink, my assumptions/determinations would be no different.

That idea of each cop having a mandatory always-on camera is sounding pretty good right about now. Confusion like this would basically cease in future cases..

[geo]

Well he did just strong arm a clerk 15 minutes before. But a joke no, Brown could have rushed the cop. Or maybe he was like no officer don't shoot me, my only choice is to grab the gun to stop shooting me.

Either way none of the witnesses tell the same story.

Chicago cops have a good way to deal with riots. Do nothing. Hold the line with shields and just take the abuse.

There will never be a final determination. The family will have their people and the cops will have their people.

I'm just shocked his body isn't in the ground yet.

I'm also surprised that Al Sparton hasn't been all over this like he has the fat father that was smothered by cops in NYC, had a heart attack and died for selling loosies.

[dg93]

Doomkid said:

However, If he was reaching in defensive instinct - when a gun is pointed at you, logic sorta goes out the window, the primal brain takes control - I can't condemn him for that. I see either of these as equally possible given this new information.

Lets not forget that it was Michael Brown who assaulted/battered the police officer who asked him to get on the sidewalk. When a cop points a gun at you, you're "primal brain" should not kick in. You NEVER grab a cops gun, EVER. Could Michael Brown have committed attempted murder if he had grabbed the officers gun (?).... Think about this; what if Michael Brown was not in the right state of mind? Lets say he was high of fuck on PCP... Cops worry about that shit because criminals tend to be more violent/deadly when they are on dangerous drugs like that.

Doomkid said:

Additionally, this does not excuse the police force for the way in which they reacted to the protests. They fueled a hot fire rather than dousing it. It also does not excuse the other murders of unarmed civilians that have been reported lately.

I partially agree, I do think that militarized police forces do tend to incite more rioting. But the violent looting and burning down peoples private property had to be stopped. That is unacceptable protesting by my books. Those rioters probably costed the city at least 1 million dollars worth of property damage.

Doomkid said:

Edit: To me, race isn't really what matters here. The fact that he's black has certainly helped to sensationalize it though. If he was white, yellow or pink, my assumptions/determinations would be no different.

Race really should not matter in this situation, but the media doesn't give a shit and they just want to make it a race issue. They practically get wet between the legs when they hear how something bad happened to a black guy by the hands of a white person. News medias don't care if it was the other way around because black on white violence doesn't SELL to the public. They news media will say shit like the deaths of Trayvon Martin and Michael Brown were hate crimes... But they will never say that a stories like these are hate crimes: http://www.cnn.com/2013/03/22/us/georgia-baby-killed/
http://dailycaller.com/2013/08/21/black-teen-who-murdered-australian-jogger-posted-racist-tweets/ Because no one would ever think black on white hate crimes exist. There will be no media outrage, no justice for whitey, nothing.

Doomkid said:

That idea of each cop having a mandatory always-on camera is sounding pretty good right about now. Confusion like this would basically cease in future cases..

I'm 100% for this idea.

[Doomkid]

the_miano said:

When a cop points a gun at you, you're "primal brain" should not kick in.

Definitely, but this is why we call it instinct - its not a conscious decision, its more like self preservation auto-pilot. It's imperfect, to say the least.. And it varies greatly from person to person. I've had a gun pointed at my face.. I just gave the guy the money in the register and showed my palms, the universal signal for "I mean no harm". None of it was conscious, instinct took over completely. It's almost like things go into third person, for lack of a better description.

the_miano said:

I partially agree, I do think that militarized police forces do tend to incite more rioting. But the violent looting and burning down peoples private property had to be stopped. That is unacceptable protesting by my books. Those rioters probably costed the city at least a million dollars worth of property damage.

Oh, don't get me wrong - the rioters who were looting/destroying property are retarded as all hell. Pieces of crap taking advantage of an out of control situation for their own personal gain. I think the whole can of worms might not have opened up if the police had approached the situation differently, though. The police took the first aggressive step against the initial group of peaceful protesters, igniting an already heated situation. If they hadn't done that, I'll just say, we can only guess.

I'm trying to view this all as objectively as I can. I feel there's no point in deluding myself, I'm not fully convinced one way or the other. I know there's people out there who think of Brown as some sort of angel, and the officer as literally the son of Satan. I think both of those views are misguided, to put it lightly. Emotion has a a way of distorting logic, I'm genuinely trying to avoid this. The thought of deluding myself just to root further into my current position is honestly sickening, but i guess its another aspect of human nature to some degree. I really want to know exactly what happened that day, but probably never will.

I will say, the fact does remain that Brown clearly wasn't trying to fly under the radar. He made plenty of stupid choices that lead police to him - he knew the risks and went ahead anyway. Robbery is not something taken lightly, we all know this. You rob a place, the cops come for you. Definitely not a little angel, but Im not convinced he deserved to die.

Times like this I'm so friggin' glad I'm safe to speculate since my opinion will have no bearing on the outcome - it really makes me appreciate the living hell that being a decision maker at the top of the chain must be..

[dg93]

Doomkid said:

Oh, don't get me wrong - the rioters who were looting/destroying property are retarded as all hell. Pieces of crap taking advantage of an out of control situation for their own personal gain. I think the whole can of worms might not have opened up if the police had approached the situation differently, though. The police took the first aggressive step against the initial group of peaceful protesters, igniting an already heated situation. If they hadn't done that, I'll just say, we can only guess.

Yeah I agree. I wouldn't doubt that the militarized police incited more riots, but the media also emphasized "white cop" shoots "unarmed black teen" which without a doubt incited the violence/looting and destruction of the city.

Doomkid said:

I'm trying to view this all as objectively as I can. I feel there's no point in deluding myself, I'm not fully convinced one way or the other. I know there's people out there who think of Brown as some sort of angel, and the officer as literally the son of Satan. I think both of those views are misguided, to put it lightly. Emotion has a a way of distorting logic, I'm genuinely trying to avoid this. The thought of deluding myself just to root further into my current position is honestly sickening, but i guess its another aspect of human nature to some degree. I really want to know exactly what happened that day, but probably never will.

I will say, the fact does remain that Brown clearly wasn't trying to fly under the radar. He made plenty of stupid choices that lead police to him - he knew the risks and went ahead anyway. Robbery is not something taken lightly, we all know this. You rob a place, the cops come for you. Definitely not a little angel, but Im not convinced he deserved to die.

Times like this I'm so friggin' glad I'm safe to speculate since my opinion will have no bearing on the outcome - it really makes me appreciate the living hell that being a decision maker at the top of the chain must be..

This entire situation could have been easily avoided. Michael Brown had every opportunity to not do what he did, but he chose to do so instead. He has now paid the price of it all. Let this be a lesson to everyone, don't rob stores, assault/batter people (including cops), and don't try to grab a gun out of an officer's hands.

Doomkid said:

Definitely not a little angel, but Im not convinced he deserved to die.

He would still have his life (and most likely in jail) if he had not attempted to reach for the gun right after he hit the officer. Though, if I was in the officers situation I would probably not have shot him 6 times... that does seem a bit excessive especially since 2 of those rounds went into his fucking head. I would have given him a nonlethal shot in the hand or leg, just enough for him to submit. I could have imagined that the cop was probably nervous as fuck knowing that his life was in danger, but they really should be trained not to give lethal shots like that. That is just my opinion.

[Doomkid]

the_miano said:

they really should be trained not to give lethal shots like that. That is just my opinion.

I agree with you. Really, the whole thing was a total mess from all angles.

[Technician]

Police investigating assault and theft following argument between Brown family relatives

ST. LOUIS, MO (KTVI) – In a recent statement, Michael Brown’s mother asked that her son not be part of self-serving business or political actions as she pleaded that he be remembered for the good. A reported assault and theft this past weekend may dramatically underscore that sentiment.

It happened Saturday night, October 18th, at about 8:15 pm in the parking lot of Red’s BBQ. It`s the corner of Canfield and West Florissant, just blocks from where Michael Brown was shot and killed.

Police sources tell us Brown`s Grandmother, Pearlie Gordon, along with Brown`s Cousin Tony Petty, were selling t-shirts and other Michael Brown merchandise.

A police report describes a car pulling up and several people getting out. One of those people, was reported to be Michael Brown`s Mom, Lesley McSpadden. A witness described McSpadden yelling ‘You can`t sell this s%$&” One of the relatives, who was selling, reportedly demanded McSpadden show a document proving she had a patent.

The police report says that`s when an unidentified person with McSpadden assaulted Petty so violently that it resulted in a 911 call. A witness tells Fox 2 that the weapon was a metal pipe or pole. The suspect reportedly struck Petty in the face. Medics then took him to Christian Northeast Hospital. The witness said the assault suspect grabbed merchandise and a box of cash believed to contain about $1,400.

It appears surveillance cameras could have captured the fight and be part of police evidence. Police report no arrests at this time.

We reached out to the local Brown family attorney, Anthony D. Gray and he declined to comment.

Heh.

[dg93]

Technician said:

Police investigating assault and theft following argument between Brown family relatives
ST. LOUIS, MO (KTVI) – In a recent statement, Michael Brown’s mother asked that her son not be part of self-serving business or political actions as she pleaded that he be remembered for the good. A reported assault and theft this past weekend may dramatically underscore that sentiment.

It happened Saturday night, October 18th, at about 8:15 pm in the parking lot of Red’s BBQ. It`s the corner of Canfield and West Florissant, just blocks from where Michael Brown was shot and killed.

Police sources tell us Brown`s Grandmother, Pearlie Gordon, along with Brown`s Cousin Tony Petty, were selling t-shirts and other Michael Brown merchandise.

A police report describes a car pulling up and several people getting out. One of those people, was reported to be Michael Brown`s Mom, Lesley McSpadden. A witness described McSpadden yelling ‘You can`t sell this s%$&” One of the relatives, who was selling, reportedly demanded McSpadden show a document proving she had a patent.

The police report says that`s when an unidentified person with McSpadden assaulted Petty so violently that it resulted in a 911 call. A witness tells Fox 2 that the weapon was a metal pipe or pole. The suspect reportedly struck Petty in the face. Medics then took him to Christian Northeast Hospital. The witness said the assault suspect grabbed merchandise and a box of cash believed to contain about $1,400.

It appears surveillance cameras could have captured the fight and be part of police evidence. Police report no arrests at this time.

We reached out to the local Brown family attorney, Anthony D. Gray and he declined to comment.

 

Edited March 15, 2017 by dg93

[geo]

the_miano said:

trained to have non lethal shots like that. That is just my opinion.

Then teach them to have the reflexes to be precise enough for when the target trips or dodges bullets and inadvertently puts themselves into the line of fire.

[Quast]

Doomkid said:

I will say, the fact does remain that Brown clearly wasn't trying to fly under the radar. He made plenty of stupid choices that lead police to him - he knew the risks and went ahead anyway. Robbery is not something taken lightly, we all know this. You rob a place, the cops come for you. Definitely not a little angel, but Im not convinced he deserved to die.

The police were not aware that a robbery had occured or even that he may have been a suspect in said robbery when the shooting took place.

[geo]

Quast said:

The police were not aware that a robbery had occured or even that he may have been a suspect in said robbery when the shooting took place.

Yeah, but if Michael Brown said I ain't done nothing cop and the cop says I didn't say you did. What didn't you do?

Again if only there were 2 witnesses that could say the same thing.

Maybe he was on something that would have caused him to strong arm a clerk and be crazy enough to go for a gun no matter what his size or age. Otherwise, let's just all assume the cop had free murder on his mind.

Anything come out about the cop's past? Maybe this isn't the first time.

[dg93]

geo said:

Anything come out about the cop's past? Maybe this isn't the first time.

The cop had no history of police complaints or brutality.

Quast said:

The police were not aware that a robbery had occured or even that he may have been a suspect in said robbery when the shooting took place.

Michael Brown simply crossed paths with a cop that was patrolling the streets. The cop had no idea that the guy he told "get out of the street and onto the sidewalk" had robbed a convenience store and assaulted a clerk.

[fraggle]

the_miano said:

This entire situation could have been easily avoided. Michael Brown had every opportunity to not do what he did, but he chose to do so instead. He has now paid the price of it all. Let this be a lesson to everyone, don't rob stores, assault/batter people (including cops), and don't try to grab a gun out of an officer's hands.

the_miano said:

Michael Brown simply crossed paths with a cop that was patrolling the streets. The cop had no idea that the guy he told "get out of the street and onto the sidewalk" had robbed a convenience store and assaulted a clerk.

At least get your story straight.

Doomkid said:

Now that this has surfaced, it would be nice to have a play-by-play of what reportedly happened.

This already exists, sourced from multiple witness statements and evidence. See here.

[dg93]

fraggle said:

At least get your story straight.

Brown robs store, assaults clerk, walks out of store, random cop spots Brown walking in the middle of the street (and asks him to get on the sidewalk), Brown punches cop and walks away, Cop points gun at Brown, Cop shoots Brown, Autopsy report indicates that Brown attempted to grab firearm from cop.

EDIT: Apparently Michael Brown's friend Dorian Johnson claims the cop while sitting in the police car grabbed Brown by the neck in an attempt to pull him down.... I call total bullshit on that. Brown was about 6'4 you think that it would be very likely to grab his neck while sitting in a police car? I don't think so. I think that is a total fucking lie.

[Platinum Shell]

Live rioting against the grand jury decision for not indicting officer Darren Wilson.

[Clonehunter]

Bad link. But I'm sure the riots are nothing compared to the oncoming Black Friday mobs.

[Platinum Shell]

Live stream died. Thought it would go on at least a bit longer.

Also, mandatory fuck you to the asshole arsonist.

[Technician]

Will the chimp out finally commence? I've been waiting for this since the Zimmerman trial!

[dg93]

Technician said:

Will the chimp out finally commence? I've been waiting for this since the Zimmerman trial!

<CHIMPOUT ALERT> Here it is: http://www.aol.com/article/2014/11/25/with-no-indictment-chaos-fills-ferguson-streets/20998579/?icid=maing-grid7%7Cmain5%7Cdl1%7Csec1_lnk2%26pLid%3D570262


What does burning down buildings, looting, and destroying private property solve? Absolutely nothing. Just imagine the tax payer money that will have to go into repairing the city because of these violent protesters.

PANTS UP! DON'T LOOT!

[jdagenet]

the_miano said:

What does burning down buildings, looting, and destroying private property solve? Absolutely nothing. Just imagine the tax payer money that will have to go into repairing the city because of these violent protesters.

PANTS UP! DON'T LOOT!

They knew this was going to happen.
They would've still burned down buildings, vandalized businesses, and acted like animals if they didn't get exactly what they wanted. That's why the court waited until 8:00 at night to announce the news -- they wanted everyone not apart of riots in their homes safe. The riots were going to happen regardless of the call.

[dg93]

jdagenet said:

They knew this was going to happen.
They would've still burned down buildings, vandalized businesses, and acted like animals if they didn't get exactly what they wanted. That's why the court waited until 8:00 at night to announce the news -- they wanted everyone not apart of riots in their homes safe. The riots were going to happen regardless of the call.

Of course everyone knew this was bound to happen.

[Clonehunter]

It's like the Purge. Except less mutilations I'm sure.

[Blastfrog]

And another pig gets away with murder. There's nothing wrong with holding a trial, but they chose not to. What reason is there for this other than to cover his ass and sweep it under the rug?

If someone kills another person, regardless of the circumstances, there should be a trial, period. To not have one is an injustice in itself.

[jdagenet]

Sodaholic said:

And another pig gets away with murder. There's nothing wrong with holding a trial, but they chose not to. What reason is there for this other than to cover his ass and sweep it under the rug?

If someone kills another person, regardless of the circumstances, there should be a trial, period. To not have one is an injustice in itself.

Regardless of the circumstances?
The cop was just doing his job. He was investigating a suspect that matched the description of a rescent theft at the local store. The cop simply stopped the punk and he started going crazy for no reason. The officer was forced to shoot him.
A full investigation was even done to prove that this theory was what really happened.

Now please explain to me how someone doing their job is a pig in this case?
Would you honestly want to waste time and money on a trial that's not even necessary? The evidence was so solid that a trial wasn't necessary, why is it so hard to understand that?

[dg93]

jdagenet said:

The evidence was so solid that a trial wasn't necessary, why is it so hard to understand that?

Because people are acting out of emotion instead of logic.

[geekmarine]

jdagenet said:

Regardless of the circumstances?
The cop was just doing his job. He was investigating a suspect that matched the description of a rescent theft at the local store. The cop simply stopped the punk and he started going crazy for no reason. The officer was forced to shoot him.
A full investigation was even done to prove that this theory was what really happened.

Now please explain to me how someone doing their job is a pig in this case?
Would you honestly want to waste time and money on a trial that's not even necessary? The evidence was so solid that a trial wasn't necessary, why is it so hard to understand that?

He was not investigating a suspect in a robbery. He had no clue about the theft. Why do people not pay attention to the basic facts? The cops put that info about the robbery out there to distract people, but even they admitted the robbery had nothing to do with the kid being stopped, because the officer was unaware of the robbery.

[dg93]

geekmarine said:

He was not investigating a suspect in a robbery. He had no clue about the theft. Why do people not pay attention to the basic facts? The cops put that info about the robbery out there to distract people, but even they admitted the robbery had nothing to do with the kid being stopped, because the officer was unaware of the robbery.

Uhh what about the fact that he got hit in the face? What about the fact that the autopsy report indicates that Brown attempted to reach for the officer's gun?

[jdagenet]

geekmarine said:

He was not investigating a suspect in a robbery. He had no clue about the theft. Why do people not pay attention to the basic facts? The cops put that info about the robbery out there to distract people, but even they admitted the robbery had nothing to do with the kid being stopped, because the officer was unaware of the robbery.

Cops in that surrounding area were called to the location because of a robbery that had just occurred.
The prosecutor stated this very clearly in his statement last night.

Next time, get your facts straight.

[geekmarine]

http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/15/us/missouri-teen-shooting/

I'm sorry, the chief of police specifically said he wasn't stopped because of the robbery. If the chief of police was lying, well that's another matter, but I've got my facts as straight as I can get them. Just saying - got the chief of police on record saying the robbery was unrelated, so even if they changed the story, they still said it.

Also, I don't see what your point has to do with anything, miano. None of that has to do with the cop thinking he was a robbery suspect.