[v1.5] Doom 64: Retribution

[Nevander]

2 hours ago, DoodGuy said:

Why are the monster sprites SO TALL?

Are you using a version of a port which supports the pixelratio property? You will know if you don't get any red warnings in the startup log. This property helps by squishing stuff down to a perfect square pixel but monsters will still be taller. That's just the way it is even in the original. Everything is bigger in Doom 64.

[DoodGuy]

14 hours ago, JohnnyTheWolf said:

You could always say it makes them more intimidating this way.

It makes them look goofy

[Nevander]

So guys I am thinking of adding the reverb effects for 1.3 and just finished going through the originals in Doom Builder 64 to see what sectors get what type of reverb. I discovered that several maps don't even use the echo sounds effects at all, some being MAP01, 02, 04, 05, etc.

 

Should I add reverbs to these or keep it the way it was in the original and only make reverbs happen on the levels where it was in the original?

 

One thing though is I am going to have to find a good way to handle them since there are two types of reverbs in Doom 64, echo sounds and heavy echo sounds. Obviously picking a preset reverb isn't the hard part, the hard part is figuring out a way to switch between them in-level. I know the way the PSX Doom TC does it which is to constantly check to see if the player is under the sky or not, then change which sound environment things are activated. This works well until you have somewhere like the outside of Holding Area where there are all those beams over the player. I'm not sure if CheckActorCeilingTexture takes 3D floors above the player into account, but I will need to find a solution for that as well as switching to the heavy echo in the right places.

 

For that one I might be able to just place a sound environment thing in the general area and then find a line to separate the zone boundary. In fact, this might be feasible on all maps actually, since I think the majority of maps have lines in convenient places to where this will be easy. For maps like MAP16 where there are TONS of different ways to go, I would use PSX Doom TC's approach and just check for the player's current ceiling texture.

 

Thoughts?

 

In other news, I am still working on the new maps. Trying to come up with cool ideas. I want to make every map grand and unique, with each one standing out on it's own and I really want to avoid boring areas and filler maps. Each map will get individual care and attention to make the episode really kick ass, so it will take time.

Edited April 27, 2017 by Nevander

[Gifty]

Pumped for reverb effects, they were used to great effect in Brutal 64.

 

Unrelated, would you be interested in me poking around with the smooth firing animations? The Doom64 weapons have never received the same community attention as the Perkristian-based PC stuff, and I'd like to have a go at a really polished Doom64 weapon set, if it would be of use to you.

[Nevander]

Feel free to do whatever you like with them. A proper Smooth Doom 64 would kick ass. You should start a dedicated Smooth Doom mod for Doom 64 now. :)

 

EDIT: Ok doing reverbs is a lot easier than I thought. I got some nice presets picked out. Factory Large Room and Factory Small Room for the inside areas that are the basic reverb effect and then Concert Hall and Arena for the big rooms where Doom 64 used the heavy echo type). I can simply set certain bordering lines to be the sound zone boundaries and then just put a sound environment thing on each side of the lines breaking up the zones. Testing in game and it sounds awesome.

Edited April 27, 2017 by Nevander

[Nevander]

Before I got too far into doing the reverbs (I am up to MAP06), I came up with the idea to make the reverbs a toggleable option. I did this by checking a CVAR and if set to 1 (enable them) the script will activate all sound environment things (tagged 333). If it's set to 0, it does not activate them and instead removes them from the map. Since reverbs remain even after being activated, this means I had to set them to dormant so that all of them can either be turned on or removed by the toggler script. Note that turning them on mid-map will do nothing. A map restart will of course be required.

 

I did this because there is a reason why i never implemented reverbs until now, and it's that for some reason when sound environment things get activated, they cause some sounds to "pop" at the end of them. A good example that you can hear right now is in the PSX Doom TC. Load up E1M1 and change your screenblocks with + or - or whatever key you have set. Listen close, you'll hear a pop. Also happens when changing options. Shit gets annoying so I thought it would be a good idea to make them to be able to be disabled based on user preference. Any idea why this happens to begin with? Maybe there's a way to stop it. That, and not everyone might like reverbs. They are cool yea, but might get obnoxious after a while and the player might just want some peace and quiet while playing.

 

I also plan to possibly integrate another toggle option and CVAR for an alternate sprite sheet for the Zombieman so he holds a pistol instead of a shotgun or rifle like the normal sprites. Once again, will be a user choice.

[leodoom85]

Interesting thing for the reverb. I've never put close attention to the activation of the reverbs and that "pop" sound that you mentioned. I thought that was the music that did the pop sound. Also, good thing that you'll add the reverb for the stages. Keep it up man!!!

[Jan]

17 hours ago, Nevander said:

So guys I am thinking of adding the reverb effects for 1.3 and just finished going through the originals in Doom Builder 64 to see what sectors get what type of reverb. I discovered that several maps don't even use the echo sounds effects at all, some being MAP01, 02, 04, 05, etc.

 

Should I add reverbs to these or keep it the way it was in the original and only make reverbs happen on the levels where it was in the original?

Don't add reverb to the levels that didn't have them originally.

 

Personally, I'm not a big fan of reverb to begin with. First time I encountered it in PSX Doom TC, I thought something was wrong with my sound settings.

[Nevander]

4 hours ago, Jan said:

Personally, I'm not a big fan of reverb to begin with. First time I encountered it in PSX Doom TC, I thought something was wrong with my sound settings.

Well fortunately you can turn them off since I decided to add a CVAR to control their activation.

[DoodGuy]

How can I replace the music? All I'm hearing is some thumping and bells every 5 or so seconds? Tried loading the music file from bd64 but it doesn't work.

[Voros]

4 minutes ago, DoodGuy said:

How can I replace the music? All I'm hearing is some thumping and bells every 5 or so seconds? Tried loading the music file from bd64 but it doesn't work.

Have you tried using the soundfont provided? Only then will you hear actual music. I also experience the same thing (not using Brutal Doom 64 though), because I'm not using the music (oh well). Replacing the music also feels wrong because it doesn't match the atmosphere.

 

But, I did make a music WAD for it, and it was distasteful with maps. Simply, make a WAD with lumps D64MUS01 to D64MUS20. Each lump is a music track.

[Blastfrog]

I have been experimenting with converting the soundtrack to XM format. I suggest converting it to OXM format (same as XM but uses ogg vorbis for samples instead), as this will reduce filesize even further.

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/39f1rt0upuzfvex/D64TITLE.XM?dl=0

 

Keep in mind, this is a very early WIP, meant to demonstrate how the music could be instead.

 

The provided SF2 file still has the sound effects in it, making it larger than it needs to be. It's also cumbersome and awkward to configure just to get music sounding right in one mod. On another note, why not convert the sound effects to ogg vorbis? As for compression in general (as well as being more modern), I suggest converting the project to PK3 format instead of WAD format.

 

Another thing, Slade 3 can crop sprites via the console (don't bother with the padding, GZDoom handles sprite flipping properly and it will bloat the filesize), and you can set it up with 3 different programs that optimize PNGs to the smallest possible size. Another way to possibly reduce filesize in a PK3 would be to reorganize the palette of all 8-bit PNG assets to only contain the used colors and to place them at the beginning of the palette. Forcing everything over to one side of the palette will induce more redundancy without any visible difference, which is good because more redundancy means smaller size when compressed.

[Jan]

4 hours ago, Blastfrog said:

It's also cumbersome and awkward to configure just to get music sounding right in one mod

Just use a separate config file for Retribution, configure the soundfont there and launch gzdoom with the -config flag.

[Blastfrog]

33 minutes ago, Jan said:

Just use a separate config file for Retribution, configure the soundfont there and launch gzdoom with the -config flag.

5 hours ago, Blastfrog said:

cumbersome and awkward to configure just ... one mod

 

 

[Gifty]

This sound font menu makes using packaged sound fonts like the one in this mod much easier.

[Nevander]

7 hours ago, Blastfrog said:

I have been experimenting with converting the soundtrack to XM format. I suggest converting it to OXM format (same as XM but uses ogg vorbis for samples instead), as this will reduce filesize even further.

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/39f1rt0upuzfvex/D64TITLE.XM?dl=0

 

Keep in mind, this is a very early WIP, meant to demonstrate how the music could be instead.

 

The provided SF2 file still has the sound effects in it, making it larger than it needs to be. It's also cumbersome and awkward to configure just to get music sounding right in one mod. On another note, why not convert the sound effects to ogg vorbis? As for compression in general (as well as being more modern), I suggest converting the project to PK3 format instead of WAD format.

 

Another thing, Slade 3 can crop sprites via the console (don't bother with the padding, GZDoom handles sprite flipping properly and it will bloat the filesize), and you can set it up with 3 different programs that optimize PNGs to the smallest possible size. Another way to possibly reduce filesize in a PK3 would be to reorganize the palette of all 8-bit PNG assets to only contain the used colors and to place them at the beginning of the palette. Forcing everything over to one side of the palette will induce more redundancy without any visible difference, which is good because more redundancy means smaller size when compressed.

If there was a way to change all the music to a modular format that sounds right with no need of a soundfont, that would be ideal. As far as it being "cumbersome or awkward," I disagree. All you have to do is follow the provided instructions. You literally only have to add the path the soundfont, drop the DLL beside the EXE, and you're done. How is that cumbersome? It takes literally seconds to set up. Module music would still be nice though, to eliminate the need for that process to begin with.

 

I tried using OGG for sound effects but there were two problems. First, they come out with less clarity and sharpness. Second, they cause lag or stuttering upon first being loaded by the game. A great example is the thunder and lightning sounds on MAP12. With OGG sounds, loading up MAP12 produces a lag spike on the first lightning strike. Converted to FLAC and guess what? No more lag spike. Sound effects should always be highest quality possible IMO.

 

I plan to keep the project in WAD format. It's a format I trust and understand and a format that users all around understand how to use and are familiar with. Everything I need to do will work inside it with the exception of models, but I don't plan to use models.

[Jan]

On 4/28/2017 at 2:58 AM, Nevander said:

Well fortunately you can turn them off since I decided to add a CVAR to control their activation.

That's great :)

[Jets]

Hum, retribution crash with the new gzdoom 3.0.0 :/

[Nevander]

1 hour ago, Jets said:

Hum, retribution crash with the new gzdoom 3.0.0 :/

Wtf... it just quits out but gzdoom.exe is still running. I think it has something to do with the menus since doing -warp 1 lets me get into the game but hitting ESC instantly quits it out. Probably need to make a patch for the MENUDEF or something. Just use 2.4.0 for now.

 

EDIT: Ok.. I don't know what's going on. Tried replacing the MENUDEF but it's still crashing out. RIP.

 

EDIT 2: Alright it seems it has nothing to do with the menus, I've discovered it is a sound issue. Launching with -nosound fixes it and you can play. If you try to open doors or uses switches (or open the menu which also plays the switch sounds) it crashes... still no idea why.

 

EDIT 3: Issue is apparently some kind of conflict or something between FLAC and OpenAL... go figure. Either use a dev build which supposedly has fixed it or stick with 2.4.0.

Edited April 30, 2017 by Nevander

[StalkerZHS]

Wow, GZDoom 3.0.0 is inherently broken.

I just extracted it to a file and it says it can't even find gzdoom.exe or doesn't have permissions

 

[Nrg01]

1 hour ago, StalkerZHS said:

Wow, GZDoom 3.0.0 is inherently broken.

I just extracted it to a file and it says it can't even find gzdoom.exe or doesn't have permissions

 

That version just crashes here so you're not alone.

[leodoom85]

It crashes in the 32-bit version. In the 64-bit version, everything is fine.

[DoctorGenesis]

Man, this looks cool! I'm gonna DL right now!

[DoctorGenesis]

2 hours ago, StalkerZHS said:

Wow, GZDoom 3.0.0 is inherently broken.

I just extracted it to a file and it says it can't even find gzdoom.exe or doesn't have permissions

 

Hmm... maybe I could help you out, what version of Windows do you use?

[Nevander]

Just a note the menus will still be wrong in 3.0.0 but at least it shouldn't crash after this issue is resolved. That will require a patch wad to fix the menus for 3.0.0, I can make one later on.

[YukiHerz]

Any chance you can make the vanilla D64 maps a separate wad so people can use alternative/other mods? I've been meaning to update my old mod and making it compatible with these maps.

[StalkerZHS]

17 hours ago, DoctorGenesis said:

Hmm... maybe I could help you out, what version of Windows do you use?

Windows 7 Pro

I've been able to get it to launch twice (both times i started it into software mode) but after changing software settings, I couldn't launch it again

 

just now I made a copy of my gzdoom 2.4.0 and overwrit that with 3.0.0, launched into openGL, changed settings, and it seems THAT works totally fine...

[isaacpop23]

3 hours ago, YukiHerz said:

Any chance you can make the vanilla D64 maps a separate wad so people can use alternative/other mods? I've been meaning to update my old mod and making it compatible with these maps.

Already been done by the Kinsie.

https://forum.zdoom.org/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=55298&hilit=Consoleation+Prize
 

[Blastfrog]

Funny, on page 2 he blames me for a horrible hack that I would never have supported. (unless I actually did support such a measure and I forgot in which case I am very stupid but I do not think that I would ever have supported it, I dunno)

 

Anyway, I wanted to note that the way gravity is in this mod is done rather strangely. First off, it's only set on the player. Why not (almost*) all actors? Secondly, the actual amount of gravity is wrong. It should be set to 686 (D64 had the same gravity as PC Doom but 686 takes the 6/7 ticrate difference into account).

 

*If you don't want monster item drops to look weird, perhaps set their actor gravity to 1.167 to compensate and bring it back to 800.

[Nevander]

I only set it on the player because literally every other actor in the game would have gotten lower gravity. If the player is the only actor that feels like the gravity is lower, the rest looks normal.