vanilla_d00m Posted May 21, 2020 I tried this new map Tech Gone Bad because I havn't finished it or bothered yet untill today when I beat it on I.T.Y.T.D There is lots of lag when I get to the end of the level with the portals with demons coming out of them, does anybody experience LAG?? I wan't to be able to beat it on H.M.P because that would be a somewhat worthy upload on my youtube channel.. 0 Share this post Link to post
Redneckerz Posted May 21, 2020 As always, What port do you use? If using a port, do you run in OpenGL or software? What are your system specs? Do you play with a mod included? If so, which one? 0 Share this post Link to post
vanilla_d00m Posted May 21, 2020 DosBox 0.70 with 2xsai 2g ram, 2.13 ghz Doom.exe -file e1m8b.wad mod 0 Share this post Link to post
Chip Posted May 21, 2020 I think a whole page dedicated to glitch and lag questions should be posted on Doomworld. Maybe even a thread dedicated to it? 1 Share this post Link to post
Wagi Posted May 21, 2020 If you're using Dosbox, do you have clock cycles on auto? Or are you limiting it? 0 Share this post Link to post
Nevander Posted May 21, 2020 Isn't Tech Gone Bad a limit removing map? So you should be running it in a source port, not DOSBox. 0 Share this post Link to post
vanilla_d00m Posted May 21, 2020 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Nevander said: Isn't Tech Gone Bad a limit removing map? So you should be running it in a source port, not DOSBox. I have doomp.exe (doom plus) running with it so that thing is fixed. doomp.exe -file e1m8b.wad I think the problem is the 2xsai scaler, i should turn it off since it isn't vanilla. 0 Share this post Link to post
dr_st Posted May 21, 2020 I seem to recall too it's not strictly vanilla-compatible. So yes, you should use a source port, and you can run it in a source-port (BOOM, MBF preferred) in DOSBox. 0 Share this post Link to post
Redneckerz Posted May 21, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, vanilla_d00m said: DosBox 0.70 with 2xsai 2g ram, 2.13 ghz Doom.exe -file e1m8b.wad mod Why on God's Green Earth are you using a DOSBox version from 13 years ago, 2007? I can't think of any reason, unless you are obmitting something, why you would want to do this. 2.13 Ghz, what's the processor? I'd like to know the processor model, please. What does the mod in your commandline argument stand for? 3 minutes ago, vanilla_d00m said: I have doomp.exe (doom plus) running with it so that thing is fixed. doomp.exe -file e1m8b.wad Ah, so its DoomP (DoomPlus). I guess that explains the mod? Quote I think the problem is the 2xsai scaler, i should turn it off since it isn't vanilla. The problem is that you use a 2007 DOSBox release. 0 Share this post Link to post
Edward850 Posted May 21, 2020 (edited) Maybe don't play the WAD inside of a full hardware x86 emulator if you are expecting it to be performant? You have many native limit-removing ports available to you, such as Crispy, prBoom+ and Eternity. Heck even the official port on Bethesda.Net would do the job. 3 Share this post Link to post
vanilla_d00m Posted May 21, 2020 (edited) Redneckerz: 0.70 can do this, the intro sounds different on the newer versions of dosbox. Edited May 21, 2020 by vanilla_d00m 0 Share this post Link to post
Redneckerz Posted May 21, 2020 2 minutes ago, Edward850 said: Maybe don't play the WAD inside of a full hardware x86 emulator if you are expecting it to be performant? You have many native limit-removing ports available to you, such as Crispy, prBoom+ and Eternity. Heck even the official port on Bethesda.Net would do the job. The only remote reasons i can find to use DOSBox is: Playing vanilla in DOSBox for purist/lazy reasons (I mean Steam and GOG versions of Doom come with them, so..) Vanilla purist Doom in multiplayer... and you actually don't need to a set up for it - VanillaDM takes care of that and its the closest you get to making DOSBox resemble anywhere like a source port with its built in settings. Just now, vanilla_d00m said: I fixed it... it was the 2xsai thing. That still does not explain why you use an awfully outdated DOSBox version. 0 Share this post Link to post
vanilla_d00m Posted May 21, 2020 (edited) The newer dosbox has this hissing sound "sssss" I tried to get it to sound like the one in the bottom below this video. I believe the adlib one has the vanilla intro?? is the IBM adlib the way doom was suppose to sound in the 1990s? dosbox 0.70 adlib Edited May 21, 2020 by vanilla_d00m 0 Share this post Link to post
Bashe Posted May 21, 2020 Older DOSBox has less accurate OPL cores. The newer versions sound closer to how it would have sounded back in the day. 1 Share this post Link to post
printz Posted May 22, 2020 7 hours ago, Redneckerz said: The only remote reasons i can find to use DOSBox is: Playing vanilla in DOSBox for purist/lazy reasons (I mean Steam and GOG versions of Doom come with them, so..) Vanilla purist Doom in multiplayer... and you actually don't need to a set up for it - VanillaDM takes care of that and its the closest you get to making DOSBox resemble anywhere like a source port with its built in settings. 7 hours ago, vanilla_d00m said: I can give you a solid reason why I use DOSBox: real near-limitless vanilla Doom (Doom+) without uncalled for alterations (keep in mind Boom started this craze). I don't even use Eternity to play vanilla Doom campaigns. portability! Unlike in ports, saves formats are frozen, so they will always work. I can store my default.cfg and saves in a cloud storage folder and play the same vanilla Doom campaign from every computer with that storage and DOSBox available. Sorry to @fraggle but I can't just use Chocolate Doom for this because he insists to preserve all those damaging limits and he didn't offer any port for Doom+, Heretic+, Hexen+. People say I may try Crispy Doom instead, but @fabian doesn't care about Heretic and Hexen, but I like those games as much as Doom. And why would I bother with ports if the vanilla games are rendered perfectly on my computers? Exactly same reason I also don't bother using PrBoom low-complevel too. For Strife I'll just use the Veteran Edition. Nightdive's port is good and official enough (not sure about id's latest Doom Classic release, don't have it yet). The only impediment over all of this is if DOSBox gets outdated and stops working smoothly on modern systems. It would be pretty tragic for a lot of great old games. macOS is already iffy. I hope the emulator gets updated to be stable. 0 Share this post Link to post
vanilla_d00m Posted May 22, 2020 (edited) How about with e2m2?? was the OPL thing suppose to have the notes in the beginning that low?? I been trying to make the OPL as loud as general midi, but I think it was ment to be that low. 0 Share this post Link to post
fraggle Posted May 22, 2020 9 hours ago, vanilla_d00m said: The newer dosbox has this hissing sound "sssss" I tried to get it to sound like the one in the bottom below this video. The first video is how OPL music sounds on a real DOS machine with a Soundblaster compatible card. The second video (DOSbox 0.70) is incorrect/incomplete. Recent versions of DOSbox have pretty decent OPL emulation code, but if you're using something as old as 0.70 it's going to be terrible. If you want best-of-breed OPL emulation, you'll get more accurate results from Chocolate Doom or one of its derivatives than you'll get from DOSbox. That's because Choco uses Nuked OPL, which Nuke.YKT painstakingly reverse engineered from the real hardware. DOSbox hasn't caught up with this yet. 0 Share this post Link to post
vanilla_d00m Posted May 22, 2020 (edited) I tried a nuked opl patched on dosbox just now... there is a big difference. The intro for doom 2 sounds more scary.. e1m8 sounds nice and so does e2m8. Huge difference. Even my beloved E1M1 (great memories!!!) sounds more punchy and just better... but e2m2 still has lower notes in the beginning.. I guess it was suppose to sound like that on OPL. I thought 0.70 had the most accurate.. I should of listened to the real stuff first instead of guessing. EDIT: I also had 0.70 really loud last week getin down with the levels and memorizing them... this whole time i thought i was playing the most accurate sounding of all OPL emulation. Guessing isn't good. Edited May 22, 2020 by vanilla_d00m 0 Share this post Link to post
Redneckerz Posted May 22, 2020 2 hours ago, printz said: I can give you a solid reason why I use DOSBox: real near-limitless vanilla Doom (Doom+) without uncalled for alterations (keep in mind Boom started this craze). I don't even use Eternity to play vanilla Doom campaigns. portability! Unlike in ports, saves formats are frozen, so they will always work. I can store my default.cfg and saves in a cloud storage folder and play the same vanilla Doom campaign from every computer with that storage and DOSBox available. Doom+ and all of its offsprings are one possible reason i'd love to see a tightly integrated version of DOSBox marred to it with a GUI and additional settings in the same vein as VanillaDM, but for single player. Given that these aren't based on source code but on the actual executable, i am shocked there isn't a made-for-gui/menu/setting system for it yet. Combined with a fixed DOSBox it would make these limit-raising executables quite more polished and intuitive to use. Or perhaps a rather barebones SDL2 port with just that? I reckon that's inching more closely to ChocoDoom. 2 hours ago, printz said: Sorry to @fraggle but I can't just use Chocolate Doom for this because he insists to preserve all those damaging limits and he didn't offer any port for Doom+, Heretic+, Hexen+. People say I may try Crispy Doom instead, but @fabian doesn't care about Heretic and Hexen, but I like those games as much as Doom. Fabian is releasing Crispy Heretic/Hexen for some time now. It is not iterated on as fast as Crispy Doom, but they do exist. 0 Share this post Link to post
dr_st Posted May 22, 2020 (edited) Does it really sound better in DOSBox using OPL versus General MIDI (also supported natively by DOSBox) with a decent soundfont in Windows backing it up? 0 Share this post Link to post
vanilla_d00m Posted May 22, 2020 (edited) For E1M1... yes big time. E2M2 has to be for general midi though. Tough to decide. The game has the best tunes I ever heard in a video game. E1M8B version is a great map, when I first saw it on youtube it looked really confusing though. 0 Share this post Link to post
dr_st Posted May 22, 2020 It is very confusing indeed. Even the automap is often of no help in some of the over-under sections. 0 Share this post Link to post
Wagi Posted May 22, 2020 Keep in mind that Doom+ raises limits, but it doesn't really fix certain issues like Doom's horrendous sprite sorting algorithm, so you can only get so far with it for maps that expect a limit-removing port. 0 Share this post Link to post
vanilla_d00m Posted May 23, 2020 On 5/21/2020 at 11:46 PM, fraggle said: The first video is how OPL music sounds on a real DOS machine with a Soundblaster compatible card. The second video (DOSbox 0.70) is incorrect/incomplete. Recent versions of DOSbox have pretty decent OPL emulation code, but if you're using something as old as 0.70 it's going to be terrible. If you want best-of-breed OPL emulation, you'll get more accurate results from Chocolate Doom or one of its derivatives than you'll get from DOSbox. That's because Choco uses Nuked OPL, which Nuke.YKT painstakingly reverse engineered from the real hardware. DOSbox hasn't caught up with this yet. I tried ver 3.0.0 just now from the main site.. it sounds accurate (thanks nuked OPL) That level E2M2 though was suppose to sound like that on a real OPL?? i mean the beginning notes that low??? E2M2 is one of my favorite levels!! I don't mind trying out chocolate doom with e1m8b... for some reason trying new ports make the game fresh again like you are playing DOOM for the first time. 0 Share this post Link to post
Edward850 Posted May 24, 2020 (edited) 16 hours ago, vanilla_d00m said: That level E2M2 though was suppose to sound like that on a real OPL?? i mean the beginning notes that low??? E2M2 is one of my favorite levels!! Kind of. How it was "supposed to" sound like (as in what it was composed with) is how it's played back on a Roland SC55, the very soundfont Windows General MIDI uses. But indeed the majority of people would have heard it sound like this, as most people had OPL cards at the time. 1 Share this post Link to post
Smouths Posted May 24, 2020 Fwiw, OPL could sound noticeably different between different Soundblaster-compatible cards too, past the OPL2 and OPL3 distinction. Even different makes of the same card could vary a bit. 0 Share this post Link to post
fraggle Posted May 24, 2020 19 hours ago, vanilla_d00m said: That level E2M2 though was suppose to sound like that on a real OPL? I don't know what "supposed to sound like" means. It's how it sounds on a real OPL, yes. From the looks of things you seem to be caught between wanting the music to sound "authentic" and wanting it to sound good. With that in mind, I can at least put your mind at rest: you can play with whatever MIDI playback you want and it will still be "authentic". DOS Doom supported a variety of different sound cards: not just the AdLib/SoundBlaster, but also the GUS and AWE32, or you could install an MPU card and output the music to a variety of different MIDI synthesizers. All of this is "authentic" because it was all possible to set up right from the start when the game was released in 1993. In terms of "supposed to sound like" (in terms of volume levels and such), probably the closest you'll get is the actual hardware that Bobby Prince used to compose the music, which was a Roland SC-55. We have convenient recordings of the music as it sounds played back through an SC-55 if that's the route you want to take. 1 Share this post Link to post
vanilla_d00m Posted May 24, 2020 I heard OPL was the only way to go to make it have the old feel.. well for E1M1 ill have it on OPL then I guess then rest on SC-55 music pack from duke. Those are good too... but the boosted ones just seemed noisy. I got them in .ogg format and in RAW and it really does a great job. 1 Share this post Link to post