Strife and Hexen?

[Stealthy Ivan]

I was wondering, is the Strife engine what they built/based the Hexen engine off of??? I had just recently played Strife again and seen some really interesting similarities with it and the Hexen engine. Or was it a modified Doom engine???

[Technician]

Doom engine

[TheDarkArchon]

How the crap can Hexen be based on Strife given Hexen was released a year before Strife?

[Bank]

I always find it odd when people ask questions regarding numbers or vanilla game engines. I mean we have a wonderful wiki that pretty much answers any and all of those questions.

[Stealthy Ivan]

Thankx for the info (forgot about wiki)!!! Sorry if it was a dumb question but I do not always have the time to browse the web. :P BTW I thought strife came first, heh, shows what I know... Hey, at least I learned something today!

[Patrick]

Stealthy Ivan said:

Thankx for the info (forgot about wiki)!!! Sorry if it was a dumb question but I do not always have the time to browse the web. :P BTW I thought strife came first, heh, shows what I know... Hey, at least I learned something today!

but you do have time to ask a bunch of raving lunatics a question and have the time to read thru the drivel until you find the answer?

[GooberMan]

shhhhh, quiet, you're speaking sense.

[kristus]

The major reason that Strife did so poorly with sales was because it was released so very late. (Even after Quake IIRC) And general people had of course disowned the Doom engine and it's games because they now had shitty graphics that sucks lawlz.

[Stealthy Ivan]

Janitor said:

but you do have time to ask a bunch of raving lunatics a question and have the time to read thru the drivel until you find the answer?

No, I make time...
@Kristus I can't really remember seeing to many copies of strife in the stores now that you mention it, I think I only know one person who actually owned a copy.

[myk]

Bank said:
I always find it odd when people ask questions regarding numbers or vanilla game engines.

Yeah, it can be useful (and this applies in regard to this particular question), but some questions aren't answered there, and sometimes the wiki is wrong or unclear.

[Kaiser]

Strife was based off of Doom2's code. I wouldn't be surprised Strife started development sometime during Hexen's development.
Rogue probably get build drops from ID/Raven on a daily basis, and more likely took stuff that they needed and stuff that they did not need. So basically they took all the important stuff from Heretic/Hexen that was needed for the game.

[Stealthy Ivan]

Kaiser said:

Strife was based off of Doom2's code. I wouldn't be surprised Strife started development sometime during Hexen's development.
Rogue probably get build drops from ID/Raven on a daily basis, and more likely took stuff that they needed and stuff that they did not need. So basically they took all the important stuff from Heretic/Hexen that was needed for the game.

This is kinda what I figured but I was not sure, I will have to do some more research on this subject.
Thankx for the info!

[Graf Zahl]

I doubt that Strife even contains a single line of Raven code. I have looked through almost the entire disassembly and could find absolutely nothing that would support that assumption.

[Lorenzo]

You can see on my Genealogy that Strife is based on DooM II v. 1.666.
I don't remember where i took this from, perhaps from the wiki page of strife.

http://www.djb.doomwadstation.com/gen03.xls




Lorenzo

[Quasar]

BTW your genealogy, while very cool, contains a few minor errors. Ultimate Doom should be based on DOOM II, Final Doom should be based on Ultimate Doom, and Linux Doom should be based on Final Doom. This is according to our best knowledge at this point, anyway :)

[Kaiser]

Graf Zahl said:

I doubt that Strife even contains a single line of Raven code. I have looked through almost the entire disassembly and could find absolutely nothing that would support that assumption.

I find it difficult to make an opinion based off of looking at a disassembled code dump.

[kristus]

Errors in the geneaology:
Why is EDGE credited to Marc Pullen (aka Fanatic)? He's not even a coder. That'd be like crediting Doom Legacy to me.

Doom Legacy and GL legacy is the same thing. In particular since Legacy was originally supporting 3 hardware rendering modes. 3dFX, OGL and miniGL. And there's been far more contributors to it than just Boris Pereira. (although I am pretty sure the Dos version doesn't have any hardware rendering)
It's also on far more platforms than just Dos and Windows.

Not sure about this one, but Boomsday was a Jdoom version with Boom editing features. So why is it described as a PRBoom and MBF mix?

AFAIK, GBA Doom was based on Jaguar Doom.

JDoom is based on either JHexen or JHeretic. As that was done first, and then the engine from that was called Doomsday and it was made to run Doom aswell. And these days it's one package for all. Where all the game specific data is kept in external DLL files.

Ogre was never really began. And it's a misconception that it was to be a Doom engine. Some of the people working on the team wanted to use Doom as a basis or something IIRC to go from somewhere. But nothing but talk really ever came out of it anyway. Too big a team, too little focus.

Skulltag was initially based off of Zdaemon.
Although Carnevil sais that all the code from that time is long gone. Still though. Skulltag is also a team effort these days.

Something omitted, Sonic Robo Blast Doom2 is based off of Doom Legacy. It's a completely standalone game using the Doom Legacy engine. The coding is mainly done by SSNTails, although I know atleast SoM has aided in it's creation.

Eternity Engine is done by Team Eternity and not solely by James Haley.

The new ZdoomGL is not featured. It's made by Tintin.

[Lorenzo]

Ok, thank you, I'll correct the genealogy !

Lorenzo

[Bloodshedder]

kristus said:

Skulltag was initially based off of Zdaemon.
Although Carnevil sais that all the code from that time is long gone. Still though. Skulltag is also a team effort these days.

Skulltag was based on ZDoom and used netcode from csDoom. Later, it used netcode from ZDaemon.

[kristus]

Ah, my bad.

[Graf Zahl]

Kaiser said:

I find it difficult to make an opinion based off of looking at a disassembled code dump.

You'd be amazed what an experienced programmer can read out of that. ;)

The pieces Raven added to the Doom code are actually quite noticable when you know what to look for.

[Kaiser]

example?

[Graf Zahl]

It's not that simple. But let's start with one simple thing: Raven implemented the MF2_PASSMOBJ flag for vertical object collision detection. None of the related code can be found in Strife. Most of the time it's just single lines of code that are different between Doom and Heretic/Hexen and in all those cases Strife uses Doom's code.

[Kaiser]

So the thing over thing code is completly different from Raven's? Despite that both Rogue and Raven versions have the same wonkiness (player sliding when standing on thing etc).

Sure you say the code is different, but it doesn't always mean that its a straight up copy and paste, they obviously did some minor cleanup, or perhaps removed stuff they didn't need.

So I am assuming the look up/down code is different than that of Raven's, as well as the terrian/water clipping, transparency (even though both Rogue and Raven uses the same methods which is the 65536 byte table used to achieve the effect), and hubs? I know the hubs in Rogue are different, but I am positive the methods in saving/restoring are similar, and I am not surprised that they did many hacks and modifications just to get a Hexen related feature to work with the Doom2 based code.

[Quasar]

I really doubt that Rogue would have gotten access to Raven's code. All the dealings they had were with id, and evidently id didn't even have Raven's code or they more than likely would have released it along with the Doom source code. Not to mention they could release it now and stop all this stupid licensing bullshit.

As for the translucency table, the approach taken in TINTTAB is an extremely common and straight-forward way to implement translucency via lookup table for 8-bit color, so it wouldn't surprise me at all if the same solution was reached independently by two teams for something of that sort. As for hubs and mlook, there are many different ways you could code both of those. Comparing the disassembly directly would certainly tell you whether or not it's the same code, and I'm pretty sure it's not without even looking :P