Ultimate Doom “In Name Only” - [Limit Removing] - Artist for titlepic/M-Doom etc needed

[CoronaRadiata]

Any slot free? no, really?

[jmickle66666666]

@dobu gabu maru @cannonball i believe this is the most up-to-date version of my map i have; its difficult to remember since it was almost 4 years since i worked on it :) https://www.dropbox.com/s/ro66oros2vjjwmj/hellkeep.wad?dl=0

[Magnusblitz]

Took a whirl on it (ridder3's E2M2) and I agree with cannonball. It's a good map on its own merits, great interconnecting layout, some interesting (if not difficult) fights and good aesthetic (feels IWAD-style but a bit modernized/nicer). That said, I'm not sure it really has a strong identity as "Containment Area" - it probably could fit any generic E2 map (or even E1 with a few texture/thing changes). There's two rooms with the sludge containers, which I imagine is the thematic take you're going for, but I think it needs a lot more of that. For the level's name I imagine something like a whole radiation area walled off with warning signs (thinking of some of the areas in UAC Ultra as an example I've played recently) or having a lot more sludge storage, maybe warehouses of barrels, things like this.

 

Great map, but feels more like a generic IWAD-style replacement than something really aiming for the level name IMO.

[dobu gabu maru]

I played Riderr3's map and yeah, the name is a little loose. I think it's a pretty cool level—love the nonlinearity!—but so many rooms fail to read as "CONTAINMENT". Quick notes for Riderr3: The blue key trap needs its trap trigger lines next to the light changing one, because the player can pick up the BK and just leave without engaging the trap. I'd also move the exit room back like 64-128 units, because the player can open the door to it after hitting the YK switch and clean up the imps while the barons helplessly watch. Neat map overall.

 

Here is the most recent compile of the UDINO Alpha. So far, the missing maps are:

 

E1M2: "Nuclear Plant" by Steve D

E1M7: "Computer Station" by UAC_Janitor

E2M3: "Refinery" by NecrumWarrior

E2M8: "Tower of Babel" by Scotty

E3M7: "Limbo" by Scotty

E4M6: "Against Thee Wickedly" by Steve D

E4M8: "Unto the Cruel" by Dobu Gabu Maru

 

I just started work on E4M8, and hope to have it done by the end of April. While we're waiting for the others, the two big things we can probably work on is 1) Having playtesters go through the set to point out problems & stuff that needs fixing, and 2) Getting some extra midis. Regarding point #2, almost half of the maps are missing midis, and I know personally I'd rather listen to some filler/overused music than the Ultimate Doom OST again. Suggestions for what tracks go to what maps is greatly appreciated. We're currently missing tracks for:

 

E1M3

E1M4

E1M5

E1M6

E1M9

E2M7

E2M9

E3M1

E3M4

E3M8

 

I don't think we're too far off from getting this thing finished, but the hard part is going to be determining if certain maps need to get axed or receive major makeovers. I pointed this out earlier, but both Mosshopper (E4M7) and joe's maps (E3M6) are really rough, obnoxious, and probably need some serious editing.

[cannonball]

So I have started to try and bring together my thoughts on the entries so far.

Starting from E1

E1M1 - I still really like this map, okay it is a little lengthy but it works for the map name near enough with the hangar located at the top of an isolated mountain. There are elements which could make this map work reskinned in the E3M6 slot with both the map fitting the name and the exit being an obvious set up for Limbo. Still I can't offer any real complaints or suggestions as to improve this map.

 

E1M3 - I think this one could end up being a very good map, but at the moment the gameplay is rather dull and I personally don't think the darkness adds to the map at all. I would love to see a bit more variation in height in certain spots and perhaps beef up the monster content a little bit. Perhaps more work could be done to make the interconnectivity a little more natural looking and less forced in spots.

 

E1M4 - This one suffers from the same problems as E1M3 - The map could be much more interesting if it is fleshed out a little more with a little more threat and action thrown into the mix. This map could do with more interconnectivity and the removal of some of the doorways to make the flow of the map quicker. Again the dark sections are not my cup of tea.

 

E1M5 - This one really does need work, there are not a lot here that I like. There are far too many demons and spectres in this map which make this play like a real slog. The layout and design don't help either, the yellow key trap isn't fun to play through with an easy way to completely cheese the fight. 

Not sure what else to say here, this one needs a lot of work to make it play well. It would be great to see the author suggest something regarding this one.

 

Of course E1M6 and E1M9 have entries but as they are my submissions then I think the suggestions from others would be more applicable than my own ramblings. But otherwise, I think map01 is okay as it is, maps03 and 04 could do with some revision from the author or perhaps a fresh approach from another mapper. I am not sure about whether map05 could survive even with heavy modification, but I am open to suggestions here.

 

E2/3/4 should get reviewed by myself this week as I have some time off work.

Edited April 8, 2018 by cannonball

[Poncho]

I haven't really looked at the project a lot, and I'm NOT dissing anyone by any stretch of the imagination, but I hope the the entire WAD isn't made up of huge levels like D2INO was. Of course, since I'm not a good mapper (I'm actually rubbish), I shouldn't really be in a position of saying it, but just throwing my opinion out there.

 

Oh yeah, will there be a TNT and / or Plutonia In Name Only afterwards???

[cannonball]

23 minutes ago, Poncho said:

I haven't really looked at the project a lot, and I'm NOT dissing anyone by any stretch of the imagination, but I hope the the entire WAD isn't made up of huge levels like D2INO was. Of course, since I'm not a good mapper (I'm actually rubbish), I shouldn't really be in a position of saying it, but just throwing my opinion out there.

 

Oh yeah, will there be a TNT and / or Plutonia In Name Only afterwards???

 

So far I think there are that many large maps, so far none of the maps in E1 are long as just an isolated couple in the rest of the wad so far. I don't think we will have the same issues that occured in D2INO (fingers crossed).

 

@dobu gabu maru - I will try and find a suitable midi for E1M6, E1M9 and E4M5 are more tricky if vanilla/boom settings are involved as midis need to suit more than one map.

[cannonball]

Okay I will start with E2 now, I will ignore E2M2 as it is a recent submission as suggestions have been made for it.

E2M1 - This map is visually interesting and has good atmosphere, but the gameplay is very much a corridor crawl for the most part, some is a little threatening but some of it is rather dull. Given the author is banned from this forum then edits could be troublesome.

 

E2M4 - This one is fine with me, it is a short map with a fairly high level of challenge. It does feel like a dark lab environment so it ticks that box as well.

 

E2M5 - Mouldy's entry seems absolutely fine for me. It is a really good map and I don't have any suggests on potential improvements though I don't think he has been on the forums in quite a while.

 

E2M6 - This one suffers from the same problems as E2M1, this is pretty much a straightforward corridor shooter, the visuals are nice and so is the mood. But apart from a couple of encounters the rest is shooting stuff in front of you.

 

E2M7 - There is surprisingly quite a bit I like about this one, okay it looks like something from 1995 but I think it has a level of charm to it and at the very least it feels interesting to play. However, the map needs to be converted to complevel 2 standards and there are probably some other major tweaks needed here and there. But I think this one has a chance of making the final cut.

 

E2M9 - Okay this is a nice looking level, but again the gameplay is rather lacklustre and whilst some attempts have been made to fit the level name. I would love to see a proper puzzlebox type map fill this slot. In the end it would be great to really pull some high concept maps in here which have been produced in the E4 slots so far.

 

So at the moment for E2;

E2M4 and E2M5 I am pretty fine with, E2M2 needs some aesthetic adjustments I feel to make the map fit the slot better but otherwise I think it is a solid entry.

E2M7 needs major tweaks but I think it could be usable in that mapslot in this project.

E2M1/6/9 all have a similar problem in terms of that they are good looking corridor shooter, the maps need to be fleshed out more to make them more interesting to play and for map9 there needs to be an effort to strengthen it's mystery feeling.

Edited April 9, 2018 by cannonball

[cannonball]

Episode 3

 

E3M1 - This is a nice map to play, the only concern is being able to reliably ax this map given we have a cyber and no heavy duty weapons to kill him. There is one secret so perhaps placing a rocket launcher or plasma gun in there could be useful. Otherwise I think this map is fine.

 

E3M2 - This was reviewed recently, I can't offer any extra suggestions here, I think this one is pretty safe as it is. 

 

E3M3 - Longest map in the set so far, that said it is a superb map with lots of interesting features. Like the previous map this was reviewed recently and I can't offer any other suggestions at the moment.

 

E3M4 - A much shorter map, it could do with a little tweaking on the environmental hazards and some of the encounters work and some don't the ones which need analysing the most are the baron encounters. Overall I think this is a decent effort at least. Some tweaks and this one should make the cut.

 

E3M5 - There are some elements of the start I like, but otherwise this feels too big for the monsters it contains. This pretty much is the thoughts on every attempt made so far on this map. It would be great to see someone else take the good elements of this map and convert it into a decent map.

 

Hopefully I will get the last couple done tomorrow.

Edited April 10, 2018 by cannonball

[cannonball]

Continuing E3

 

E3M6 - This is very very crude, this would need a major clean up in visuals in parts, the combat is very cramped at times too (though at least the ammo is sufficient to deal with this), health could be a major issue at times here. Up to others but this would need a lot of work put into it to make the map decent. I am not sure how uch can be done with the pre-existing layout to improve matters.

 

E3M9 - This one is fine as it is, the only consideration would be a personal one for Dobu, this was made before the wad was made limit removing so the map could be detailed further if Dobu desires, otherwise this is fine.

 

E3M8 - I like the concept, the execution however is very crude and suspect at the moment. I am not sure what to suggest here, this was a newbie effort but this would require a lot of work before I would consider accepting this. I would open the floor to suggestions, but the opening navigation needs fixing to make things a little easier. I don't mind jumping into the damaging blood, but having a defined place to go would be a good start. Some of the combat is very cramped and the visuals are pretty poor in places. So overall I suspect more attention needs to be taken in terms of progression and then actually developing the builds and rooms the player must traverse to reach a vantage point to hit the mastermind, that said the end game on the room looks pretty decent including the boss in its little shrine.

 

So E3M2/3/9 are good to go E3M1/4 are pretty close to being complete too.

However E3M5/6/8 need some serious work.

[Impboy4]

Since Joe-ilya is banned from these forums; I don't think anyone would want to touch his map and rather make a new one in it's place.

[Walter confetti]

On 10/4/2018 at 6:46 PM, cannonball said:

E3M4 - A much shorter map, it could do with a little tweaking on the environmental hazards and some of the encounters work and some don't the ones which need analysing the most are the baron encounters. Overall I think this is a decent effort at least. Some tweaks and this one should make the cut.

I'll fix it when I have time to get to my pc... But it will need some time

[Poncho]

Joe-ilya isn't banned, though: it doesn't say so on his profile.

[baja blast rd.]

I just asked to be ultra sure, and Joe-ilya is in fact still banned. 

[cannonball]

I thought Joe was still banned, this of course makes communication difficult. Still I get the feeling the map might end up getting scrapped if most thought it was unsalvageable. 

@Walter confetti No worries, I think you will have a lot of time to make any changes you see fit. 

 

Episode 4

 

E4M1 - This map is absolutely fine, except it doesn't real fit the title of the map. The best suggestion would be to constuct a new start area and drop the player into where the map currently starts. Make the new start area above ground with perhaps a tech-style setting and then remove the sky from the rest of the map. This would make the map fit the title without altering the gameplay which is very solid in my opinion.

 

E4M2 - Reviewed this several times, I think this one is pretty much okay for the final release barring any suggestions made by others or any personal preferences SteveD may still have.

 

E4M3 - I am going to be honest, I don't like this map and I don't think it really fits the title either. I would be happy to give the map author another chance to make another map as his megawad contain maps which are far superior to this. It would be great to see this as well.

 

E4M4 - This one is pretty much fine too, a great concept and works very well. Pretty tough as well.

 

E4M9 - This one is also pretty much good to go.

 

E4M7 - Yeah this is another which needs a lot of work, the visuals and very sloppy and the same with the gameplay. So this needs some urgent attention or perhaps a fresh start.

 

So from E4

E4M2/4/9 are pretty much good to go.

E4M1 - Needs edits to make the map fit with the title, but otherwise this will be fine.

E4M3/7 - Both need a major overhaul or perhaps a fresh start entirely.

Edited April 12, 2018 by cannonball

[Steve D]

I honestly have only a couple ideas to throw out for E4M2. First, I'm sure many people would be happier with fewer hitscanners at the start, but it is called "Perfect Hatred". ;)  The other idea was maybe taking that early Rocket Launcher and putting it on a platform in front of where it is now, so the player has to jump for it. Maybe I could even put some platforming-type steps with a rising curve in them, for even more hatred. These platforms could also serve as cover against all the aforementioned hitscanners. The end result might be pretty ugly, though. I'm honestly happy with it the way it is, and the balance of nasty-to-playability seems appropriate, but those are 2 ideas worth considering, I reckon.

 

FYI, I'm working on E4M6. Slow going with my Work Hell situation, but I'm cautiously optimistic that I'll have a lot more time in May and June.

[dobu gabu maru]

Thanks for running through the megawad thus far cannonball, more feedback is never a bad thing. Depending on what the club picks for May, I might be able to spend my Doom time running through the wad and posting some of my own feedback as well. Also, if anyone needs help improving or spiffying up their map, feel free to shoot me a DM and maybe we can work something out. FYI, I'm really hands-on with my approach (ie I prefer doing the edits myself), so take that into consideration.

 

Here's a real quick summary of cannonball's reviews; you can check the posts above for more detailed feedback:

 

GOOD TO GO

• E1M1
• E2M4
• E2M5
• E3M2
• E3M3
• E3M9
• E4M2
• E4M4
• E4M9
   

NEEDS SOME TWEAKING

• E1M3
• E1M4
• E2M2 (only needs texture edits)
• E2M7
• E3M1
• E3M4
• E4M1
   

NEEDS AN OVERHAUL

• E1M5
• E2M1
• E2M6
• E2M9
• E3M5
• E3M6
• E3M8
• E4M3
• E4M7

 

EDIT: Oh yeah, I'm fine with keeping E3M9 the way it is; I'll eventually replay it to see if it needs a little boost in difficulty, but that's about it. I like it serving as a reminder that the project was once vanilla-compat.

[NuMetalManiak]

Started playing this alpha and finished E1, now on E3 at E3M9. Gotta say I'm definitely not a fan of E1M1, very slowgoing and almost turned me off from playing.

In E2M1 doortraks for 1026 and 1028 are not lower unpegged and 1026 is a STONE2 instead of DOORTRAK.

E2M7 linedef 1620 does not lower the sector 411 right, because all the floors around it are 32. Linedef 1620 should be a door or ceiling linedef trigger.

E3M5: thing 801 and 802 teleport destinations not flagged for easy. Also one teleport closet of demons doesn't even have a teleport linedef (5489, 5492, 5493, 5494 all have action 129 instead of a teleport action)

 

Will probably offer more later.

Edited April 16, 2018 by NuMetalManiak : up to E3M9

[cannonball]

On 4/13/2018 at 2:47 PM, NuMetalManiak said:

Started playing this alpha and finished E1, now on E3 at E3M9. Gotta say I'm definitely not a fan of E1M1, very slowgoing and almost turned me off from playing.

In E2M1 doortraks for 1026 and 1028 are not lower unpegged and 1026 is a STONE2 instead of DOORTRAK.

E2M7 linedef 1620 does not lower the sector 411 right, because all the floors around it are 32. Linedef 1620 should be a door or ceiling linedef trigger.

E3M5: thing 801 and 802 teleport destinations not flagged for easy. Also one teleport closet of demons doesn't even have a teleport linedef (5489, 5492, 5493, 5494 all have action 129 instead of a teleport action)

 

Will probably offer more later.

To be fair you are not the first to dislike E1M1, it is always the trouble with a map which is technically very sound but is designed in a way that can give a polarised level of opinion. E2M7 is pretty broken so that is definitely going to be address and as for E3M5 I suspect that the elements you have highlighted may very well cease to exist come the final release.

Edited April 16, 2018 by cannonball

[Scotty]

Might have e2m8 ready quite soon (maybe this week if I get my shit together). E3m7 will be a while longer cause I have had several false starts with it but I think it should be worth the wait...

[NuMetalManiak]

E3M8 - secrets here are fucked up, 329 and 232 shouldn't be secrets. Also I don't know any way into 120.

E4M1 - lowered sector 276 with a lift and looked at the backside, spotted HOM there.

 

edit: finished the whole alpha, nothing else major to note, other than the fact I was EXTREMELY DISAPPOINTED in how E4M7 played out. My original concept for this one when I took the slot a long time ago was basically fighting a few enemies, then backtracking fighting a whole lot more. This map had pretty much none of that and was mostly shoot what's in front of you.

Edited April 17, 2018 by NuMetalManiak : finished alpha

[Reisal]

I have a possible replacement for E1M5's music track. It's from here. (from V2 track)

But that's up to whoever chose the track, I suppose?

 

Oh yes, there's been no changes to E1M8 since I submitted it.

[cannonball]

On 4/16/2018 at 9:37 PM, Scotty said:

Might have e2m8 ready quite soon (maybe this week if I get my shit together). E3m7 will be a while longer cause I have had several false starts with it but I think it should be worth the wait...

Just quoting this to give this doomworld announcement on behalf of most people looking forward to this;

Stop teasing us Scotty.... :P

[Scotty]

7 hours ago, cannonball said:

Just quoting this to give this doomworld announcement on behalf of most people looking forward to this;

Stop teasing us Scotty.... :P

 

This is my ongoing problem:

 

[Scotty]

Like 2 months later and...

 

Tower of Babel

 

 

Hope it is worth the wait. Skill settings implemented but not yet tested. MP - player starts only. Thanks to cannonball and dobu for initial testing - hopefully i haven't broken anything else in my tinkering since then!

[cannonball]

Finally I have updated the OP which now includes E2M2 which I completely forgot to add (whoops).

I will go through your map again Scotty tomorrow evening to make sure al is well but otherwise this is another map ready to go. :)

[tourniquet]

Was curious and played your map @Scotty, here's a demo UDINO-E2M8-FDAsv_TNq.zip.

 

Really like the scenery with all the surrounding buildings, towers and stuff just my cup of tea. Good pressuring usage of Sergeants and Pinkies, encounters were overall fun. Final fight was awesome.

 

The Baron,Caco Combo behind the door to the tower feels like a rather redundant roadblock, i'd rather replace them with bunch of Sergeant's or smth similar.

Backpack secret seems like a good place for a secret PG, darkness, randomly raising floors and pinkies seem like a rather devious combo for a rocket centric fight IMO

 

 

[Steve D]

Bumping the thread to show some early work on E4M6. All I have is the opening area and even that is quite rough. Last worked on this back in April. Hope to get back to it in a month or two.

 

[cannonball]

Liking the scale of that shot, fingers crossed we see the finished product in the near future.

[dobu gabu maru]

Question: Dobu, why are barons your favorite Ultimate Doom enemy?

 

Answer: https://www.dropbox.com/s/z7m18prof5jvx08/Unto_v1.wad?dl=1

 

 

Plays on E4M8 "Unto the Cruel". Ultra-Violence is the only difficulty implemented thus far, and the map is going to be very frustrating for a lot of players. Despite how it might seem, the map is maxable.

Edited February 4, 2019 by dobu gabu maru