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Graf Zahl
Forum Legend

Posts: 4223
Registered: 01-03

sargebaldy said:
Again, I find it bewildering that you're fine with making infighting impossible for some PWAD, yet are fine with having features such as jumping and crouching enabled when playing through the far more sacred original maps.

I call that bad design decisions for which it is too late to change. I would have done it differently, i.e. having to enable jumping explicitly. But since this decision was made years before I even knew of ZDoom it has to stay like that so that it doesn't break all the WADs out there.

06-12-07 01:10 #

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Hellbent
Guinness Gulper

Posts: 1280
Registered: 06-00

well I thought my idea wasn't terrible... oh well.

One thing I'm noticing which irks me is how the original areas seem to have been left with their original baddies. So the architecture gets upgraded etc. but the monsters don't. I dunno... something a bit off about the whole thing. Z1M5 is coming across as a bit of a disappointment--the original is so great.

06-12-07 02:37 #

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Terra-jin
The Sky-Surfer

Posts: 392
Registered: 01-04

Amazing work!

It took the authors quite some time to make this wad and I thank them for providing us with several hours of good DOOM time. There's things I liked very much and some things I didn't:

The Good
+ The detail and artwork is really great. Beautiful maps, although sometimes a little too much detail for me (computers and panels EVERYWHERE). However, the actual places are more believable than in original DOOM.
+ Well tuned difficulty; I played at UV -fast and had quite a challenge. One thing that did bother me: normal Imps fireballs move slower than I was used to, making me run into them several times :P
+ Good secrets and puzzles, although some are a bit too random (no logic required, but pressing irregular textures). It's too bad that there was no actual use for the green and silver key in M3, just an überswitch that needed them all.
+ The extra effects like bullets and shells popping out, footsteps and ambient sounds really set KDIZD apart from other big wads.
+ The dopefish lives!

The Meh
+- The new enemies: some were cool, like the Mauler and the new zombies, but most just felt a bit undoomy. The melee goat and the soul harvester didn't really belong in DOOM.
+- The rotating items: a cool idea, but it didn't work out as nicely with all of them.

The Bad
- No infighting? DOOM is infighting. It makes the demons appear more stupid and funny. Difficulty shouldn't be an issue here since it can be compensated for (more enemies or monsters of the same species together).
- The rifle is a little too powerful. It kills bruisers in two or three shots - too easy.

The overall verdict
Excellent job guys, great stuff, interesting new ideas and most of all: thank you for your hard work! Now go make us Shores of ZDOOM and ZInferno :D

PS: How do you access the soulsphere at the last bit of M9? You can open the door from below, but I can't seem to reach it.

Last edited by Terra-jin on 06-12-07 at 15:52

06-12-07 15:45 #

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printz
CRAZY DOOM ZEALOT

Posts: 1791
Registered: 06-06

Terra-jin said:

although sometimes a little too much detail for me (computers and panels EVERYWHERE).

If such a motif (computers and panels everywhere) would fit a fictional UAC installation, then it's fine. Seeing how many crates they're keeping, it's no surprise here.

The Bad
- No infighting? DOOM is infighting. It makes the demons appear more stupid and funny.

Yeah, but 'no infighting' makes the demons more of a threat, and more efficient -- they can be mixed. It becomes clear that they're ENEMIES not dumbsters.

- The rifle is a little too powerful. It kills bruisers in two or three shots - too easy.

Be afraid when you use that word, "bruisers", here... :)

06-12-07 16:46 #

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dethtoll
Member

Posts: 492
Registered: 05-04

Terra-jin said:
PS: How do you access the soulsphere at the last bit of M9? You can open the door from below, but I can't seem to reach it.

http://www.doomworld.com/vb/showthr...&threadid=40401

3. In the huge outdoor area with lots of bare ground, look for the two big metal panels with UAC on them near the way you came into this area. The one on the left can be reached by standing on the top step and jumping onto the ledge, then jumping again onto the higher ledge, then opening up the panel. Rocket jumps also work. Beyond is a soulsphere.

06-12-07 16:47 #

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Terra-jin
The Sky-Surfer

Posts: 392
Registered: 01-04

printz said:

Yeah, but 'no infighting' makes the demons more of a threat, and more efficient -- they can be mixed. It becomes clear that they're ENEMIES not dumbsters.

I guess it's a matter of taste; I like the demons plain and stupid. That's also why I didn't like the Hell Warrior, it was not stupid enough to not be able to use a shield.

In that respect, I like the stone imps better: they just walk right at you until *BLAMM!!* Aww, so close, muhahahahah :P

06-13-07 12:57 #

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Ichor
The Mysterious Red Square

Posts: 6499
Registered: 07-02

I didn't mind the no infighting (I guess it's from all those hours of testing 1monster maps). Even though the enemies won't attack each other, they can still hurt each other. Anything getting in the way of a chaingunner usually ends up with a dead chaingunner, but with no infighting, the monsters won't turn around and attack, meaning the zombie will just continue firing away. And if you want stupid, those rocket zombies are far more likely to kill themselves than to kill you. The only place I saw where they might be a serious threat is at the end of map 10. In which case, I may just use them to kill off some of the other enemies for me.

06-13-07 13:16 #

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myk
patron mod of ugly ducklings and black sheep

Posts: 10441
Registered: 04-02

Ichor said:
And if you want stupid, those rocket zombies are far more likely to kill themselves than to kill you.

I was wondering about those... they are the rocket dude sprites from TiC's Obituary (and credit is given to Vorph in the credits file). Per se that wad has a "may NOT use" copyright clause in the text file, though perhaps the KDiZD team asked the TiC guys for permission by email?

06-13-07 13:39 #

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printz
CRAZY DOOM ZEALOT

Posts: 1791
Registered: 06-06

Those rocket zombie graphics already appear in the monster resource wad.

06-13-07 14:54 #

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myk
patron mod of ugly ducklings and black sheep

Posts: 10441
Registered: 04-02

printz said:
Those rocket zombie graphics already appear in the monster resource wad.

Yes... which leaves the same question about that wad (which has stuff from STRAIN, as well).

06-13-07 15:36 #

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TheDarkArchon
Forum Staple

Posts: 2048
Registered: 08-04

When the MRW was being made, I don't think any of the makers knew where it was from. All I knew is that TiC made it, which was afterward.

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06-13-07 16:05 #

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rf`
my soap has gaybar printed on it

Posts: 7172
Registered: 11-01

Graf Zahl said:
Both of you:
You are cheating!

Plain and simple. KDiZD was done without infighting on purpose and the decision was made after several people did some comparative testing. If it's too hard for you or if you are simply incapable of playing with infighting disabled, play something else.

You can't really tell people how to play it anyway. The moment a game enters the hands of a player, it is up to the player how they will play it. That's the way it's been for every single game out there ever made. You can design a way for them to progress through the game, but the individual choices are the player's and player's alone to make.

Not trying to sound snappy of course, as that's the last thing anyone needs, but I think you can see what i'm trying to get at.

Edit: You all bitch to much over 1's and 0's. :P

Last edited by rf` on 06-18-07 at 07:37

06-18-07 07:16 #