[FINAL RELEASE] Eviternity

[MoiraHeart]

1 hour ago, QuaketallicA said:

 

Because that's what Doom's about? It's the name of the game, you're one man against the hordes of hell, it's a product of the early 90s. And also just my personal tastes.

But Eviternity is a product of the late 2010s. Doom modding scene is one of the most prolific due to the fact that the game evolves among with the community constantly. Doom can be whatever you want it to be, and sticking to Doom (1993) aesthetic is a little silly when you've got infinite possibilities to explore.

[AD_79]

Always wanting/requiring your Doom music to sound a certain way ("it has to be dark and grunge-y", "it has to be metal", etc.) is silly. Jimmy and stewboy's creative, varied and often decidedly un-"Doom-y" material was and remains a massive inspiration for me, and I would have had far less interest in composing my own if all of the community's musical output sounded like the original game's soundtrack. Pretty much anything can work when paired up with the right map.

 

3 minutes ago, MoiraHeart said:

Doom can be whatever you want it to be

 

Exactly. Doom can be so many different things, and every person is going to have their own vision for what can be done within this game. This is a big part of why the community has continued to thrive for so long. 

[Garland]

2 hours ago, QuaketallicA said:

 

I was never demanding anything. I stated an opinion that I just didn't like the choice of music. That's just my tastes. I would personally prefer Doom music to be more doomy. You're free to feel differently.

That's an appeal to purity. Differences in opinion and musical preference are fine, but the argument itself is flawed - and I've had the chance to experience the musical alchemy that the likes of Jimmy, Stewboy, Essel, et al. have produced over various WADs. I count BTSX ep2's Shadow Port (MAP01) and Ancient Aliens' Bad Medicine Men (MAP04) among my favorites.

 

What have they done for me to earn my attention? They mesh with the environment and gameplay to create a very distinct mood.

[ukiro]

Ever since 1994 I have had a strong dislike the toy-like sheen midi (or .mus) gives a composition, and as a result I've almost always played Doom without music for these past soon-to-be 30 years. For my map in Eviternity I tried to find something that felt more aligned with my preferences, and the result is that it's perhaps the most divisive music choice in the entire megawad. So I think most people prefer a bit of playfulness, music that leans into the midi aesthetic, rather than something that tries to make midi something it's not quite cut out for.

[Knor964]

I am gonna play the crap out of this

[Lila Feuer]

This almost felt like the Death Wish of Doom WADs, just one ultra-quality map after another with incredibly tight gameplay and crazy visuals. Beat it a couple years ago and want to play it again sometime down the line.

[jazzmaster9]

Man why can't these mapsets just do the same type of music over and over  and over again, and ruining the essence of the IWADs. These ''ComPosers"  don't know what Doom is really all about and just make this spanish soap opera music.

 

Spoiler

/s

 

[Dragonfly]

19 hours ago, plums said:

Quick question about Eviternity's palette: is it OK to use in other wads? Some OTEX textures seem to work better with it, but OTEX states that it's meant for the default palette, and the CC licence for Eviternity suggests this isn't allowed. I think Sunder's new maps use it, but with your permission?

 

The palette's fair game, go for it! 👍

 

Edit for clarity: Ensure mention of Eviternity in your credits file(s); if you're looking to be more specific, credit me for the PLAYPAL and @ukiro for the COLORMAP 

Edited August 28, 2023 by Dragonfly

[indigotyrian]

7 hours ago, plums said:

Quick question about Eviternity's palette: is it OK to use in other wads? Some OTEX textures seem to work better with it, but OTEX states that it's meant for the default palette, and the CC licence for Eviternity suggests this isn't allowed. I think Sunder's new maps use it, but with your permission?

 

Restricting a set of colors, of all things, is extremely silly and even if it was disallowed by any license I'd disregard it and just take the colors.

 

3 hours ago, ukiro said:

Ever since 1994 I have had a strong dislike the toy-like sheen midi (or .mus) gives a composition, and as a result I've almost always played Doom without music for these past soon-to-be 30 years. For my map in Eviternity I tried to find something that felt more aligned with my preferences, and the result is that it's perhaps the most divisive music choice in the entire megawad. So I think most people prefer a bit of playfulness, music that leans into the midi aesthetic, rather than something that tries to make midi something it's not quite cut out for.

 

I highly disagree that MIDI has a "toy-like sheen" (maybe the Microsoft General MIDI driver) but I do think your track for Anagnorisis fit the map like a glove.

Edited August 28, 2023 by indigotyrian

[Decay]

9 hours ago, QuaketallicA said:

 

Because that's what Doom's about? It's the name of the game, you're one man against the hordes of hell, it's a product of the early 90s. And also just my personal tastes.

Real DooMers play without music so they can hear the monster sounds better. It's one man against the hordes of hell!!!! They aren't blasting music through the techbase announcement system, it's just you! It's a product of the early 90s, DoomGuy ain't jamming on a Walkman carrying multiple CDs, and if he is, those songs on repeat have definitive ends and beginnings too, with bonus skips every time he fires a gun.

[Gregor]

10 hours ago, QuaketallicA said:

Just tried out Eviternity today. I played primarily the 2nd episode, with its Quake II-inspired industrial/tekbase levels, plus one outdoors map and the map "Creation."

(...)

Overall, for me the fun factor was about a 7/10, rather average to maybe slightly above average. The gameplay and levels may as well be 90s levels in that it's just "shoot enemies in level, move on to next and repeat." Not much in the way of environmental storytelling or unique gimmicks to the gameplay. But what is there is very solidly done and the maps are very polished. Definitely worth playing through.

I think one problem here is that you haven't really played enough of the map set before forming and declaring your opinion of it. Play a bit more before trying to judge it. This isn't Doom 1, where the first episode is the highlight of the game. ;) 

 

It also sounds to me like that you haven't played a lot of custom wads like this before (modern limit-removing, Boom, or MBF), and as a result this feels weird to you when compared to what you are used to from the commercial releases and GZDoom mods. Because you come across as having some very specific categories in your head about what Doom can and should be, based on what you played so far, and since Eviternity doesn't fit into them, it strikes you as wrong and unrefined at delivering what Doom is ought to be in your opinion.

 

But trust me, Eviternity isn't regarded as an all-time classic by mistake.

[plums]

11 hours ago, indigotyrian said:

Restricting a set of colors, of all things, is extremely silly

While I broadly agree, I can think of hypothetical examples where a mapset had a hugely modified palette that was part of its visual identity, and the author didn't want people to use it. Also not everyone is comfortable with using resources without clear permission, whatever they are. So it's good to get everyone on the same page IMO.

[indigotyrian]

8 minutes ago, plums said:

While I broadly agree, I can think of hypothetical examples where a mapset had a hugely modified palette that was part of its visual identity, and the author didn't want people to use it. Also not everyone is comfortable with using resources without clear permission, whatever they are. So it's good to get everyone on the same page IMO.

 

The only time I can think of someone actually declaring propriety over a color is when artist Anish Kapoor secured exclusive rights to the use of vantablack for artistic purposes, in a move literally every other artist thought was complete bullshit, and rightfully so. Saying that you and only you (and whoever else you deem worthy) are allowed to use a certain set of colors would be a move so brazenly against the spirit of Doom modding that I'd be stealing the palette, textures, and everything else from the WAD on the spot simply on principle. Artists don't get to claim ownership of something as broad as visual identity.

[esselfortium]

25 minutes ago, indigotyrian said:

 

The only time I can think of someone actually declaring propriety over a color is when artist Anish Kapoor secured exclusive rights to the use of vantablack for artistic purposes, in a move literally every other artist thought was complete bullshit, and rightfully so. Saying that you and only you (and whoever else you deem worthy) are allowed to use a certain set of colors would be a move so brazenly against the spirit of Doom modding that I'd be stealing the palette, textures, and everything else from the WAD on the spot simply on principle.

 

Okay, I have to reply to this (and your post in the palette thread):

 

19 hours ago, indigotyrian said:

Go for it, grab all the shit that isn't nailed down. Credit your sources but that's about it.

 

Use whatever colors you want, obviously, but a playpal+colormap combination is a lot more than just "a certain set of colors". (Per-pixel colormap editing is hell.) Beyond that, it doesn't cost much to respect the wishes of the person who created the thing you like. "Grab all the shit that isn't nailed down, take it all on principle" is just spiteful bullshit that flies in the face of the mutual understanding of "respect when people don't want their stuff stolen" that this community relies on. The Doom community is pretty small and tight-knit, but you talk about it like you're ripping assets from a faceless corporation or something.

 

(To be clear, I have no problem with people using any palettes and colormaps I've made. I just think you're being an ass about this.)

[Bauul]

21 hours ago, QuaketallicA said:

However, in my personal opinion, they're pretty boring. Oh wow, a tek base, a base with nukage, a rocky area.

 

Step 1: Pick the tech-base episode

Step 2: Complain the episode is full of tech-bases

Step 3: ???

Step 4: Profit!

 

In all seriousness though, you can't really play just 5 levels out of a 32 level megawad (and not even the first five) and expect to be able to make any reliably sweeping judgments on it.  

 

Also your opinion on the music is certifiable, IMO.  Motion Machine (the music to Creation) is an absolutely pitch-perfect accompaniment to the map.

[baja blast rd.]

Shots look great! Looks like Doom Eternal! I'll make sure to play this!

(^ that was in my autocomplete) 

 

My thoughts on palettes are: 

 

Concepts ("blue is slightly lighter", "green fades to purple which fades to orange", "imp teeth glow in the dark") and even exact colors can't be protected, and that would be silly. There are no restrictions on what you can do there. Naturally, using existing wads as a reference is fine while doing that. But that's contingent on you making the palette(/colormap) yourself. 

 

If all you're doing is directly copy/pasting and you know that, you're still benefiting from lots of saved effort, so you might as well be respectful of that and be honest with yourself and do whatever you think that entails (crediting in simpler cases, asking in more complex ones, or whatever). Copyright is beside the point here and benefiting from hours of someone else's effort without being gracious about that seems socially wrong. 

[indigotyrian]

1 hour ago, esselfortium said:

 

Okay, I have to reply to this (and your post in the palette thread):

 

 

Use whatever colors you want, obviously, but a playpal+colormap combination is a lot more than just "a certain set of colors". (Per-pixel colormap editing is hell.) Beyond that, it doesn't cost much to respect the wishes of the person who created the thing you like. "Grab all the shit that isn't nailed down, take it all on principle" is just spiteful bullshit that flies in the face of the mutual understanding of "respect when people don't want their stuff stolen" that this community relies on. The Doom community is pretty small and tight-knit, but you talk about it like you're ripping assets from a faceless corporation or something.

 

(To be clear, I have no problem with people using any palettes and colormaps I've made. I just think you're being an ass about this.)

 

I don't appreciate the insinuation that you and others are making that I have no respect for other creators, or that I am "ungracious" in the face of the hours of other people's efforts, and I'm not a little upset at the dogpiling that's starting to form here. In the very post you quoted I said you should credit people you're lifting from. My entire point is that restricting the sharing of assets specifically made for free modifications is egotistical and overtly harmful to the remix culture that video game modding is founded on.

 

If you want to say "you can't use these assets" for a commercial project I think that's different. Hell, even for a stand-alone free project I'd empathize. But for a Doom WAD? A mod built on the backs of the years of hard work id Software put into making Doom and Doom 2, to say nothing about the years of time its creators spent learning their crafts? You're going to making something riding on the coattails of that, taking advantage of their work without even asking for their permission to remix it in such a way (how many Doom WADs out there have slightly tweaked versions of vanilla assets?), not to mention the years of work other modders before you put in, then turn around and say "no, the road stops here?" If you ask me I think that attitude, the attitude that stops the cycle of iteration and innovation in these types of spaces, is what's actually spiteful bullshit.

 

I totally believe all creators should get their due, 100%. I'm honestly rather surprised and kinda insulted at the idea that me saying "take things from others, make sure you credit them" is somehow harmful or antagonistic toward artists and modders in the space, especially when so many of those same artists and modders did the exact same thing. We're all cribbing from other sources.

Edited August 29, 2023 by indigotyrian

[esselfortium]

"Author does/does not allow permission to reuse and modify this wad" has been standard doom community text file template stuff forever for a reason. When you make something here, you do it under the pretty safe assumption that other people here will respect your wishes for how and if you want it to be used. If you make something and don't want me to use it, you can say so and I will either find something else or make my own thing instead. If I see your "please don't reuse this" and use it anyway, that just makes me kind of a jerk.

 

"Take whatever isn't nailed down" is one thing when you're talking about assets from a commercial product, made by people who were paid for their time, but this modding community is just people making things for the love of it. It doesn't cost much to be respectful of people's wishes when it comes to things they've worked on for free here.

 

(And I don't think two replies is dogpiling...)

[MBison]

Everyone knows the only way to enjoy doom is with the music turned off, a sanyo CD player boombox on the desk loaded with a copy of slayer's "reign in blood" that skips every 12 seconds, and the volume knob turned all the way (100% treble).

[JonExMachina]

43 minutes ago, MBison said:

Everyone knows the only way to enjoy doom is with the music turned off, a sanyo CD player boombox on the desk loaded with a copy of slayer's "reign in blood" that skips every 12 seconds, and the volume knob turned all the way (100% treble).

Don't forget the blown speaker.

[Dragonfly]

8 hours ago, indigotyrian said:

I totally believe all creators should get their due, 100%.

 

Then take some time to word it better; because your posts stink of "fuck the authors" with their current wording. Please also take this to another thread, thanks. 👍

[indigotyrian]

2 hours ago, Dragonfly said:

 

Then take some time to word it better; because your posts stink of "fuck the authors" with their current wording. Please also take this to another thread, thanks. 👍

 

I already did word it as about as well as I could, reading "fuck the authors" when I expressly stated "I totally believe all creators should get their due, 100%" in the very post you snippeted is a trip. I'm not the one who instigated the fight here but I'm not interested in continuing it.

[Djoga]

Started playing it yesterday and made it to map15 so far.
Really enjoying it.

[RushupDen]

Amazing this wad! 

Goes to my TopList so far! 

[ludicrous_peridot]

For the final battle track, which is not in MIDI format in the WAD, I am curious if the MIDI version ever published and if I could ask for permission to distribute it?

[Tristan]

There's no MIDI version.

[CacoKnight]

I started checking ports and playing DOOM around 7 months ago, I played the first 3-4 levels of EV1 in the past but I jumped to EV2 right away when it came out, tonight I decided to quickly scan the maps of EV1 and W O W, now I see why this series might be the best ever released and I see the connection to the 2. I will start EV1 soon and play it completely then play EV2 again.

Edited December 23, 2023 by CacoKnight