Is this Mac/PC Doom source code on ebay legit?

[Dreemurr Deceevurr]

Oh wow, never thought I'd have seen the day...

[SaladBadger]

Are there any recommended programs for opening the HFS-formatted ISO? I was kinda hoping 7-zip could do it, but it seems to be unable to.

 

edit: why didn't I just try a few google queries it seems that "HFS Explorer" works just fine.

Edited September 19, 2023 by SaladBadger

[Doom64hunter]

Does anyone know a way to play back the ".mid!" files found in several of the folders?

 

I believe these might be some ancient Quicktime music format used on Mac. There may be some interesting stuff there, for example, DEAD.MID and DEAD2.MID, while identical in their original format, have different filesizes in the ".mid!" conversion.

[Individualised]

3 hours ago, zokum said:

I don't think they really cared much about what Romero did. They did the bare minimum to avoid widespread use in commercial products and losing trademarks and copyrights etc. If they had actually been bothered, they would have sued Romero. Maybe him living in Ireland would have complicated it so much that no matter what, it would still be a loss. It could turn into a PR disaster as the commercial value of these assets is low. From a preservation, documentation and fan-base view, they are priceless. The missing rotations arguably improves the game.

It's a shame they didn't add in all that extra jazz in a later download-only patch. That way they could have distributed the "small" version on disks and people could get the improved version with very little effort. Not everyone had modems, but most of the people from back then who were computer enthusiasts that I knew had modems. One person I know even had his own BBS.

This could possibly help a bit with the Chocolate Doom compatibility and answer some unanswered questions about the DOS version. It could be a boon for projects like Fastdoom.

They would never have sued Romero over that for the simple reason it would be a massive PR disaster for id Software. They still told him off, and I can't imagine they were happy about things like him licencing the Quake map sources under the GPL. I don't think it's wise to use things from this in source ports for now until things settle a bit, and ports that care about sticking to their licence probably don't want to use it anyway so I don't see Chocolate Doom using any code from this any time soon.

 

For now at least I'm going to update some Doomwiki pages. Might be worth someone making an article titled "2023 Doom 2 source code leak" or something like that similar to the one we have for the 2015 source data release.

[Zilch]

7 hours ago, MacPlay said:

Think different. 

 Spent five grand and didn't hoard the disc.

 

"You're a God damn war hero!"

[Individualised]

What is different about "E1M1.MID.2" and "E1M2.MID.2" compared to their normal versions?

[Individualised]

5 hours ago, TheZombieKiller said:

There appears to be a scrapped level(?) in the /UltDoom/PC/From id/ directory (NEW.WAD):

 

It also seems to have CodeWarrior 5 in the /DOOM II 1.0 7.14.95/CW5/ directory.

What map slot does it occupy? Is the .WAD just this map or does it contain more?

[SiFi270]

I checked out NEW.WAD and for some reason it immediately felt so familiar. Thankfully, being from the first year or so of PWAD history narrowed it down considerably. A few of the wads I'd played before from that time period were chosen because there was something significant about another wad the author was involved with. For example, I once did a marathon of Scott Harper's wads because he co-authored Oracle with Jim Flynn. Once Scott's name was back in my head, I checked his wiki page and quickly found what I was looking for: Deadlock - Beyond Quad.

 

The version on idgames is dated 1997, has the lumps arranged in a slightly different order, and has a few differences in thing placement I haven't really looked at in detail.

[Individualised]

Aww, so not a development asset then. I'm guessing it was probably used for testing PWAD support.

 

Do the IWADs match any released versions?

Edited September 19, 2023 by Individualised

[SiFi270]

It could also be there because it was intended for Master Levels. If so, it's a shame it appears to be the only one there.

[Murdoch]

28 minutes ago, Zilch said:

Spent five grand and didn't hoard the disc.

 

"You're a God damn war hero!"

 

Indeed. A quite astonishing thing to do. I wonder who the seller was and where they got it from. It obviously came from the original team but where from there I wonder....

 

38 minutes ago, Individualised said:

They would never have sued Romero over that for the simple reason it would be a massive PR disaster for id Software. They still told him off, and I can't imagine they were happy about things like him licencing the Quake map sources under the GPL. I don't think it's wise to use things from this in source ports for now until things settle a bit, and ports that care about sticking to their licence probably don't want to use it anyway so I don't see Chocolate Doom using any code from this any time soon.

 

All of the major source ports have progressed well beyond the need to use any of this code directly I would think. There would be few, if any, instances where it could be dropped in without much work. It could be used as reference for any port authors wanting to iron out compatibility issues, particularly for accuracy focused ports like Chocolate Doom. If it's used for reference and not copied directly, any licensing issues could probably be avoided. The sound code should definitely be avoided, because that was licensed code in the first place and to my knowledge has never been GPL'ed.

The historical value though is quite significant for those with a mind to peruse it.

[Individualised]

26 minutes ago, SiFi270 said:

It could also be there because it was intended for Master Levels. If so, it's a shame it appears to be the only one there.

Final Doom on PlayStation had 2 scrapped levels. One of these was TWM01.WAD. The other scrapped level was also Master Levels related, it could be this.

19 minutes ago, Murdoch said:

All of the major source ports have progressed well beyond the need to use any of this code directly I would think. There would be few, if any, instances where it could be dropped in without much work. It could be used as reference for any port authors wanting to iron out compatibility issues, particularly for accuracy focused ports like Chocolate Doom. If it's used for reference and not copied directly, any licensing issues could probably be avoided. The sound code should definitely be avoided, because that was licensed code in the first place and to my knowledge has never been GPL'ed.

Oh fuck I forgot about the sound code. Yeah that might be useful to "reference"

Edited September 19, 2023 by Individualised

[Zilch]

Anyone know how to go about opening SIT archives on Windows, or even Linux?  Browsing though the disc using HFSExplorer, but can't seem to get past those dang archives.

 

EDIT: unar seems to work just fine..

 

> mkdir output

> unar -output-directory "./output" Doom2.sit

 

EDIT EDIT: I installed unar in Debian under WSL2.

Edited September 19, 2023 by Zilch

[Murdoch]

7 minutes ago, Zilch said:

Anyone know how to go about opening SIT archives on Windows, or even Linux?  Browsing though the disc using HFSExplorer, but can't seem to get past those dang archives.

 

That was a very Mac specific archive format I seem to recall. 

https://www.stuffit.com/#downloads

[SiFi270]

There are four more PWADs found in "DOOM II 1.0.2\WAD Files" and again in "UltDoom\UDOOM 1.0.2\Misc\WAD Files". These are ENTERPRZ.WAD (which appears to be the only one of the four on idgames), G50.WAD, OOPS.WAD and TMPLDOOM.WAD. They all have .txt files (or in tmpldoom's case, a .wri file) making it clear who made them, except for G50. That one still appears as part of Maximum Doom, as does ENTERPRZ, but not the other two.

[viti95]

OUTOFMEM.DOG

 

[TheUltimateDoomer666]

1 hour ago, Individualised said:

What is different about "E1M1.MID.2" and "E1M2.MID.2" compared to their normal versions?

The percussion in E1M1.MID.2 is almost completely different from the normal version of E1M1. I would guess that it's maybe been optimized for FM synthesis, as it certainly does not sound good with "wavetable" synthesis. As for E1M2, there are some noticeable timing differences between the two versions. In the normal version of E1M2, the strings start immediately, while in the .2 version, the strings do not come in until the second measure, meaning the strings play for a shorter amount of time before the first claves notes play.

[SiFi270]

Now that you mention it, E1M1.MID.2 sounds kind of like a broken version of the WebTV upload of At Doom's Gate.

[Individualised]

1 hour ago, viti95 said:

OUTOFMEM.DOG

 

This is really cool to see and funny at the same time. Like it reminds me of those fake "every copy of Super Mario 64 is personalised" error message memes. This was never used in any version of Doom right?

[Midway64]

Well, now everyone finally found out it's true after all! :)

Why that smiley face? Ehh... I did have something to do with this.

 

Ain't much, but I atleast got some involvement.

[Dynamo]

3 hours ago, SiFi270 said:

G50.WAD

That one is on idgames, here. Presumably these were WADs downloaded off the internet to test the MacDoom port at the time. But what about this NEW.WAD I keep hearing about?

4 hours ago, SiFi270 said:

Once Scott's name was back in my head, I checked his wiki page and quickly found what I was looking for: Deadlock - Beyond Quad.

Ah, nice!

[Individualised]

Updated Doomwiki pages that refer to D_READ_M to add its actual name ("Read Me While Listening To This"). Do any of the MIDIs with normal filenames have any differences from their OS/2 versions? Metadata differences especially would be useful.

[viti95]

Also in the source code there is an alternative version of ENDOOM:

 

[Individualised]

1 minute ago, viti95 said:

Also in the source code there is an alternative version of ENDOOM:

 

A version of this appears in a few prototypes we have, but interestingly Tom Hall has been removed from this version and Sandy Petersen and Dave Taylor are now listed.

[DGrey]

Just now, viti95 said:

Also in the source code there is an alternative version of ENDOOM:

 

[ENDOOM here]

It's an alternative version of the pre-release ENDOOM to be exact. It is pretty interesting, though, considering it doesn't mention Tom Hall at all.

[viti95]

The difference is the title for each developer (compared to the Doom Press Release Beta):

 

Programmers -> Coder-types

Artists -> Pixels

Designer -> Map-boy

C.E.O. -> Biz

Software Support -> Supporter

[ETTiNGRiNDER]

5 minutes ago, DGrey said:

It's an alternative version of the pre-release ENDOOM to be exact. It is pretty interesting, though, considering it doesn't mention Tom Hall at all.

IIRC there was an interview with Sandy Petersen where he talked about how there was a movement to cut Tom Hall out of the credits until he argued that that was kind of not cool, so that would corroborate the story.

[Individualised]

Just now, ETTiNGRiNDER said:

IIRC there was an interview with Sandy Petersen where he talked about how there was a movement to cut Tom Hall out of the credits until he argued that that was kind of not cool, so that would corroborate the story.

Tom Hall is not mentioned in the final game either.

[Doom64hunter]

29 minutes ago, Individualised said:

Updated Doomwiki pages that refer to D_READ_M to add its actual name ("Read Me While Listening To This"). Do any of the MIDIs with normal filenames have any differences from their OS/2 versions? Metadata differences especially would be useful.

All Doom 1 level midis differ from the OS/2 ones. For each of them, the title was replaced by "ExMy", x y being the episode and level slot. Possibly there are other differences as well.

 

Bunny.mid is also different, though the title is the same.

[Roebloz]

This is massive news!!! Time to make a Cutting Room Floor article bois.

 

Out of curiosity: Is there anything interesting in the code other than vanilla Doom's original sound engine?

(Also, I am 100% making a video on NEW.WAD, holy shit this is awesome)