favorite secrets

[Pirx]

Mithran Denizen said:

This was back before IDCLIP existed, and before anybody knew about straferunning. :P

Also, I've always loved the walkover-lift-lower line specials, particularly the one behind the imp tower in E1M1, and the ones in E1M3. Those are a big part of what defines Doom, and E1 in particular, for me.

yep, that's how i learned getting to the secret exit too, get invuln and rocket-jump onto that blue box. i was pretty impressed by mt. erebus anyway, as it was the classic hellish design that defined doom for me, featured in the third in-game demo afaik, and the bunch of monsters seemed a never ending horde to me back then.

Marnetmar said:

The E1M3 and E1M4 soulsphere secrets are my personal favorites, I remember playing doom for the first time wondering what that eerie blue ball was and how to get to it.

that and generally getting to the E1 outside areas. as explained in the "doom the way id did it", it's one of romero's design principles to allow the player to get to areas he can see. indeed, i never put more effort into finding every secret. that soulsphere on a pillar was particularly tempting.


also, getting in requiem's map 15 the secret exit by arch-vile jump before i knew how this works. i killed that annoying archie, searched for secret buttons etc to no avail and noclipped my way to the exit.

[Megamur]

Unrelated, but I'm remembering that one map in Eternal Doom where you're required to have an Arch-Vile blast you over a wall, possibly twice--once in one direction and again in the other--and I couldn't believe how broken that was.

Carry on.

[elic]

Oh god.
I hate those damn Arch-Vile secrets. It was cool when you had to do one for the megasphere in TNT, but that wasn't a secret, and no one knew about Arch-Vile jumping so it really helped spread the trick. But by the time Requiem (Was it Requiem that did that? I sort of forget.) is made a lot of people know about stuff like that already, and everybody going through that map for the first time probably killed the damn thing.

It was okay in Eternal, cuz there's a lot of weird things you have to do in that WAD. I remember that there's one level where you have to get an invulnerability so you can shoot a voo-doo doll with a rocket launcher so it can be protected from enemies (something along those lines).

[The_MártonJános]

I remember one from WOS MAP24. Either you had to suffer through an AV-jump or take a secret passage to press the switch which lowers the blue key platform.

[b0rsuk]

Not strictly a secret:

In Hexen, Shadow Wood level (start of Hub2), you can reach the area with Dark Servant without activating any switches. I can do it as Cleric - can you do it as Mage ?

[Hellbent]

Cell said:

- E1M6 - that long tunnel to the goods by which I managed to bypass the usage of the yellow key. Also the one beneath the blue key.
- E4M2 - Cyberdemon uber telefrag - BFG - secret exit.
- E4M3 - 19 secret rooms on each other!
- E4M8 - secrets that are NOT marked as secrets. They always made me think about them.

I highlight these since they don't get mentioned very often. But I could make a list longer than Cell's. I love secrets.

Processingcontrol said:

It also sucks trying to search the map for a secret that your never going to find cuz it's now blocked off. It should ALWAYS be possible to achieve 100% Kills/Secrets/Items EVENTUALLY during any point of gameplay IMHO.

But you got to admit the E4M2 secret from wolf3d is pretty ingenious. If you don't get the secrets leading up to the mega secret in the right order, you seal it off forever. One reason id gets away with this on this level is that the level is not very big and has a simple layout.

[kristus]

Megamur said:

Well, a medikit isn't a necessity if the health balance in the level is good. If it's gotten to a point that you've grabbed all the regular health pickups and are only barely scraping by with health you find in secrets, the level designer needs to consider adding more supplies. Secrets should make things easier--they shouldn't be key to your survival.

Sounds to me that if you don't have enough health, you're playing on a skill level that is too much for you to handle.

[Lüt]

Creaphis said:

That effect is almost never used, and the one that opens and closes* a door five minutes after the level starts is used so little that I only just barely remembered that it exists.

I'll always remember it because of the trouble it caused me in an old map of mine.

At one point, I had a staircase leading to the exit area, and while playtesting, I couldn't finish the map because one of the steps had the ceiling set to the same height as the floor. I went to fix it, but when I opened the editor, the floor/ceiling height difference was 128. This confounded me for days, until I realized the sector special for the light flicker effect had somehow shifted to a different number - the one for "close door in 5 minutes."

Anyway, as for secrets, I've always liked the ones where a full section of a map was hidden away. Cubby holes with items are certainly convenient, but something's much more rewarding about discovering an entirely new location (and perhaps even one with its own sub-secrets). Behind the diagonal computer panels in E1M3 and the giant backhall and plasma rifle platform in E2M5 are two good examples from Doom. Heretic had a lot of areas like this - the river and upper dock backways in E1M1, the big stone hall in E1M2, the rapids in E1M3, the water pool in E1M4, and most notably the whole secret exit area in E4M4, which is nearly a third of the entire map space. I always try to put areas like this in my maps whenever feasible.

[Megamur]

kristus said:

Sounds to me that if you don't have enough health, you're playing on a skill level that is too much for you to handle.

Not necessarily. Sometimes level authors simply don't give out enough supplies.

[iHaveToPee]

Plutonia map 15 the room with the revenant and the bridge with the 7 secrets.

[bimlanders]

Megamur said:

Not necessarily. Sometimes level authors simply don't give out enough supplies.

Ammo is the key here. There is always the option of not getting hit a lot, but you have to have something to fire back at them. And melee weapons simply won't work in all situations (guys in front and snipers all over in every direction.)

Anyways, to stay on topic, my favorite secret ever is the chainsaw secret in E1M2. Back in '93, I didn't have cheat codes yet, and my only frame of reference to FPSs was Wolf3D. To see that chainsaw sitting on a platform from a window, inaccessible, was incredibly tantalizing! I thought that it was amazingly cool to have a chainsaw in this game.

[Grazza]

Generally speaking, I don't think secrets should provide items that are strictly necessary just to reach the exit. But they should be at least very helpful if you are trying to kill everything before exiting.

[Lorenzo]

Grazza said:

Generally speaking, I don't think secrets should provide items that are strictly necessary just to reach the exit. But they should be at least very helpful if you are trying to kill everything before exiting.

I agree... what I hated in KDIZD was the fact that the new weapon could be found only in a secret area...

[Mithran Denizen]

The new weapon is not necessary to complete the game, though. I actually like it when a secret level holds something unique that makes it worth visiting.

[C30N9]

I think E3 secrets from Doom are nearly necessary because you may run out of ammo while you are facing cacodemons, else you have to deal with them by fist (if not berserk). That always happen to me in E3M2.

Funny thing that TNT MAP31 has an area that must be visited, but it is flagged as a secret. But not necessary if you take the fast way (jumping to the throne).

[Arjak]

@ Cell:

Ugh, I remember that Wolf 3D required secret! Not only was the idea of a mandatory secret bad enough, but there was also a TRAP secret that, if found, would block off another secret required to beat the level! I wouldn't be surprised if I had thrown a tantrum upon learning what I did wrong.

@ Creaphis:

lol'd at that grade school kid's lie. I always did find that to be a strange way to end the first episode. BTW, do you remember what "secret" weapons he said were up that ladder?

[Chrispaks]

Mithran Denizen said:

The entrance to the secret level in Mount Erebus was pretty unique and memorable. Or at least it was back in the day when I had a buddy point out that you were supposed to use the invuln. artifact and the rocket launcher to get in there, rather than IDSPISPOPD.

Damnit

I always used to heal up to 100% and then blast my way backwards into it, I'd always start with ~10% health thanks to the rocket :(

BUT NOW I KNOW.

[The_MártonJános]

Arjak said:

@ Cell:

Ugh, I remember that Wolf 3D required secret! Not only was the idea of a mandatory secret bad enough, but there was also a TRAP secret that, if found, would block off another secret required to beat the level! I wouldn't be surprised if I had thrown a tantrum upon learning what I did wrong.

You mean E4L7? That was a horrible one. I'm remembering that the player must have shot once and soldiers came from the other side of the locked door. If you shot one in the doorway, the problem was solved.